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Private Clouds, the next big thing?


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#1 goodbytes

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 10:18

I've been browsing through Kickstarter and noticed a few products that can be described as 'private clouds' - claiming to be that dropbox replacement that puts you in control of your data.

 

I first noticed SherlyBox https://www.kickstar...our-de?ref=48hr

 

It looks like a great idea but is it gimmicky, are they trying to solve a problem we don't need solving?

 

I then came across WEDG which appears to have lots more features https://www.kickstar...?ref=nav_search

 

Off the top of my head the only concern is network speed.. I might have 60MB downstream but upstream i believe is only 3Mbps.. soon to be upgraded to 100MB / 6Mbps.. so while these companies claim to 'instantly' share files without syncing and uploading, thats not very good if the home upstream is poor... is 3/6Mbps fast enough for streaming a HD video or downloading a 1GB file?

 

Are there any other products like this already on the market?

whats your personal opinion?

are you happy with services like Dropbox or will you be taking your sharing/cloud needs in house?




#2 Tomo

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 10:29

The problem I see is managing all that at home. It's easy to set up Dropbox and just use it but installing at home requires you have some degree of knowledge as well as a good backup and internet connection.



#3 +InsaneNutter

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 10:36

Look at Owncloud, its quite good.
 
As for speed you are indeed limited by your upload speed, however whats to stop you running Owncloud on a dedicated server, or VPS?

 

Personally i use Dropbox as the 27gb i have is enough for me. I probably would look at Owncloud to replace Dropbox if i ever did need more space.



#4 mps69

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 10:58

I've been using pogoplug for a number of years.

Plugged in 3x1 TB drives into it, and works flawlessly. Auto backup works from my phone brilliantly easy, It's so easy even my wife can us it.  :laugh:

Yes it's in the house, but combined with something like dropbox or google drive I seem to be getting the best of both worlds.



#5 majortom1981

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 11:04

My problem with these private clouds is that They are NAS with better marketing. I use the cloud so that its offsite and so I have it if there is a fire or something. My desktop already has a USB hdd that it backs up too.  Since I am the IT guy at work and we have free office 365 for education I just got the 1Terabyte onedrive space upgrade for free.



#6 OP goodbytes

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 11:33

I also have 1TB One Drive with live@edu, i may be missing the point but i have my one drive folder, it has some images and documents.. but to sync everything i need to throw my entire digital life into this folder so that it is synced... i guess with these devices it syncs everything thats stored on it, effectively a NAS that can be well organised and accessed like a separate storage solution.. instead of an integrated storage solution. i.e.. i might want to sync my entire movie library but they are on my storage HDD in a Media Library folder, i wouldn't put that folder inside my DropBox folder, it's essentially used for 'tidbits' like photo backup, sharing files with clients, screenshots, some email attachments.. etc.. and it's cleaned regularly.



#7 Brian M.

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 11:50

Look at Owncloud, its quite good.
 
As for speed you are indeed limited by your upload speed, however whats to stop you running Owncloud on a dedicated server, or VPS?

 

Personally i use Dropbox as the 27gb i have is enough for me. I probably would look at Owncloud to replace Dropbox if i ever did need more space.

 

I tried using owncloud - the problem I found is just how damn slow it is. If you poke around various forums, it's been an issue since it's started, and the devs inability to solve it doesn't inspire much confidence.



#8 Shiranui

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 12:27

By strange coincidence I started fiddling with owncloud today, setting it up on an old linux machine in the office. It might be useful for realtime collaborative editing of documents.
The current version 6 is too slow and unstable (the editing bit) to be usable, but version 7 launches in the middle of this month.

http://owncloud.org



#9 OP goodbytes

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 17:46

By strange coincidence I started fiddling with owncloud today, setting it up on an old linux machine in the office. It might be useful for realtime collaborative editing of documents.
The current version 6 is too slow and unstable (the editing bit) to be usable, but version 7 launches in the middle of this month.

http://owncloud.org

 

I've temporarily backed the WEDG but going to give OwnCloud a go in the meantime.



#10 primexx

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 01:11

Those hardware private clouds are pretty lame. All I want is something like BitTorrent sync except with a layer of encryption so that you can have a client syncing without being able to read the data to act as a server. I can set up my own hardware to run it, and not on an awful home connection.



#11 +LogicalApex

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 01:52

The "Private Cloud" is a segment that is here to stay... What is going to be defined is whether this attempt to push it down to the consumer side of things will be successful. Most of us ultra geeks already run some level of a private cloud at home and have for years...

 

 

My problem with these private clouds is that They are NAS with better marketing. I use the cloud so that its offsite and so I have it if there is a fire or something. My desktop already has a USB hdd that it backs up too.  Since I am the IT guy at work and we have free office 365 for education I just got the 1Terabyte onedrive space upgrade for free.

 

 

The problem these are attempting to solve isn't really one of availability so much as privacy and control. Putting content on a third party cloud service ties you deeply to the whims of that provider. The noose gets tighter the more data you upload into their system as downloading it becomes extremely time consuming or prohibitive (imagine filling a 1TB OneDrive allotment, for instance, then having to find a way to migrate it because MS upped the prices or made the service useless to you) to change. Obviously, a private cloud isn't for everyone, but I prefer them as I don't like the be at the mercy of anyone else for anything I consider critical, like my data.



#12 jakenwv

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 02:27

+LogicalApex has it right, it's about privacy and contol of your personal data.  I use Onedrive for documents, photos, videos that I want to share with others and my "private cloud" is just for me.



#13 PGHammer

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 02:38

The "Private Cloud" is a segment that is here to stay... What is going to be defined is whether this attempt to push it down to the consumer side of things will be successful. Most of us ultra geeks already run some level of a private cloud at home and have for years...

 

 

 

 

The problem these are attempting to solve isn't really one of availability so much as privacy and control. Putting content on a third party cloud service ties you deeply to the whims of that provider. The noose gets tighter the more data you upload into their system as downloading it becomes extremely time consuming or prohibitive (imagine filling a 1TB OneDrive allotment, for instance, then having to find a way to migrate it because MS upped the prices or made the service useless to you) to change. Obviously, a private cloud isn't for everyone, but I prefer them as I don't like the be at the mercy of anyone else for anything I consider critical, like my data.

 

The "Private Cloud" is a segment that is here to stay... What is going to be defined is whether this attempt to push it down to the consumer side of things will be successful. Most of us ultra geeks already run some level of a private cloud at home and have for years...

 

 

 

 

The problem these are attempting to solve isn't really one of availability so much as privacy and control. Putting content on a third party cloud service ties you deeply to the whims of that provider. The noose gets tighter the more data you upload into their system as downloading it becomes extremely time consuming or prohibitive (imagine filling a 1TB OneDrive allotment, for instance, then having to find a way to migrate it because MS upped the prices or made the service useless to you) to change. Obviously, a private cloud isn't for everyone, but I prefer them as I don't like the be at the mercy of anyone else for anything I consider critical, like my data.

The issue is NOT privacy - or even control - but those ne'er-do-wells that use private AND third-party clouds for crookery.  It is precisely that issue - crookery - and government responses TO said crookery - that have put the brakes on innovation in the non-corporate cloud space.  (We aren't stupid - the very threats to our privacy and control that we have been yammering about have their source in attacking crookery - do you propose to simply ignore the use of legal services for crookery?)

 

If you think my argument sounds like the gun-control argument, congratulations!  It IS the same argument - because it applies to any and every use of legal products and services for crookery.  Private clouds, private banking and trust services (recently under fire for use in terms of tax mitigation and investment - which has been itself conflated with the crime of tax evasion, whether or not such a thing actually took place), privately-owned firearms - at some point I actually expect the same tactics to be used against the privately-owned vehicle.

 

Centuries ago (yes, the tactic is THAT old), there was something called "shaming" - it was how the societal authority dealt with ne'er-do-wells short of imprisonment or death.  The MDE (modern-day-equivalent) is the civil lawsuit (and the leaks therefrom) that are deliberately planned to do the same thing - expose "dishonorable" behavior by exposing the "offender" to ridicule (in the court of law, the "court of public opinion", or both - usually both).  It used to be the stocks in the town square - nowadays, it's the press; the evolution of the town crier/bailiff.  The problem with this same tactic is that there is no screening as to how it is used - especially individual civil lawsuits; worse, there is no guarantee that even the government always gets the right individual or group in their crosshairs - even in a civil suit. (This is especially problematical with no less than two of the most sue-happy government agencies in all the United States of America - the Securities and Exchange Commission, and the Department of Justice.  Both the Justice Department and SEC file hundreds - if not thousands - of civil lawsuits in District Courts all over the United States - in the case of the Justice Department, the primary target is assets used in crookery - including private/personal clouds; in the case of the SEC, it is violation of securities laws, and especially "insider trading".)  How often do we hear about the SEC flubbing a civil case?  How often do we hear about the Justice Department flubbing an asset-forfeiture case? (Yes - flubs of BOTH sorts of cases happen - neither agency is perfect.)  You think that flubs are bad only in terms of criminal cases?  Civil lawsuits can have just as bad an impact, if not worse, when THEY get flubbed up - the damage can take years to fix - if it is even fixable.  (All too often, it isn't - societal authorities - or those operating under color of such - HATE admitting they flubbed up.)  Note that I am NOT saying that societal authorities - including governments - don't have a role - they certainly do.  However, checks and balances are just as important here as they are in every other aspect of action by authority or those operating under color of authority - including the use of civil lawsuits.



#14 OP goodbytes

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 08:47

The issue is NOT privacy - or even control - but those ne'er-do-wells that use private AND third-party clouds for crookery.  It is precisely that issue - crookery - and government responses TO said crookery - that have put the brakes on innovation in the non-corporate cloud space.  (We aren't stupid - the very threats to our privacy and control that we have been yammering about have their source in attacking crookery - do you propose to simply ignore the use of legal services for crookery?)

 

If you think my argument sounds like the gun-control argument, congratulations!  It IS the same argument - because it applies to any and every use of legal products and services for crookery.  Private clouds, private banking and trust services (recently under fire for use in terms of tax mitigation and investment - which has been itself conflated with the crime of tax evasion, whether or not such a thing actually took place), privately-owned firearms - at some point I actually expect the same tactics to be used against the privately-owned vehicle.

 

Centuries ago (yes, the tactic is THAT old), there was something called "shaming" - it was how the societal authority dealt with ne'er-do-wells short of imprisonment or death.  The MDE (modern-day-equivalent) is the civil lawsuit (and the leaks therefrom) that are deliberately planned to do the same thing - expose "dishonorable" behavior by exposing the "offender" to ridicule (in the court of law, the "court of public opinion", or both - usually both).  It used to be the stocks in the town square - nowadays, it's the press; the evolution of the town crier/bailiff.  The problem with this same tactic is that there is no screening as to how it is used - especially individual civil lawsuits; worse, there is no guarantee that even the government always gets the right individual or group in their crosshairs - even in a civil suit. (This is especially problematical with no less than two of the most sue-happy government agencies in all the United States of America - the Securities and Exchange Commission, and the Department of Justice.  Both the Justice Department and SEC file hundreds - if not thousands - of civil lawsuits in District Courts all over the United States - in the case of the Justice Department, the primary target is assets used in crookery - including private/personal clouds; in the case of the SEC, it is violation of securities laws, and especially "insider trading".)  How often do we hear about the SEC flubbing a civil case?  How often do we hear about the Justice Department flubbing an asset-forfeiture case? (Yes - flubs of BOTH sorts of cases happen - neither agency is perfect.)  You think that flubs are bad only in terms of criminal cases?  Civil lawsuits can have just as bad an impact, if not worse, when THEY get flubbed up - the damage can take years to fix - if it is even fixable.  (All too often, it isn't - societal authorities - or those operating under color of such - HATE admitting they flubbed up.)  Note that I am NOT saying that societal authorities - including governments - don't have a role - they certainly do.  However, checks and balances are just as important here as they are in every other aspect of action by authority or those operating under color of authority - including the use of civil lawsuits.

 

:huh: ???????



#15 Nick H.

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 09:02

I'm sure I'm missing something obvious here...that sounds more like you're just setting up a VPN connection - such as with Hamachi - to your home machine and providing the correct shares for your information? I've just seen that Hamachi is no longer free, but that still makes me wonder what makes this different?