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Veteran With Concealed Carry Permit Shoots Back At Chicago Gunman


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#31 AsherGZ

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 17:00

Really? Where's the "private gain" for some 18 or 19 yr old kid who is sent (ordered) to some hell hole half way around the world to get shot at or blown up for buttons money?

These kids weren't ordered to join. They did so of their own free will knowing full well what they were in for, which for most of them is to play real life Call of Duty (warning: may be traumatizing for some) with real people and real life guns to the soundtrack of The Roof is on Fire. Getting paid for that is a bonus. It's sure a hell lot more than what they would make at McDonald's per hour. Also they'd get called heroes back home.




#32 Dinggus

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 17:12

Once again, members outside the US start arguments.

 

Also, please don't insult the military saying we're mercenaries. if you've never experienced war, you shouldn't talk like you know all about it.

 

Try fighting a ghost.



#33 Zidane

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 17:22

While I agree that the US missues its armed forces to get involved with conflicts we have no need to, I won't agree that our armed forces are "just mercernaries". Even if they "signed up" for it, it doesn't make their sacrifice any less sad. The armed forces is a lot more than just "go there, shoot 'em dead", they are a part of our communities and a lot of them join because they geniuely feel they can make a difference. Do some of them join to get paid scholarships and stuff? Sure...but why does that make them "appear bad" when people take internships/etc all the time.

 

What people really need to blame is fat cats in Washington who send our men and women into these conflicts on a dime without seriously taking in the consequences of doing so.



#34 adrynalyne

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 17:27

This isn't about a small number of individuals - it's endemic. It's institutionalised, state sanctioned murder. It's the inevitable consequence of a lack of accountability, with very few killings ever resulting in reprimands (with the majority of those that do being overturned).

 

I won't apologise for caring passionately about such a gross injustice.

It isn't a small number?

 

Do you have an amount of how many incidents per year?



#35 COKid

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 17:38

What people really need to blame is fat cats in Washington who send our men and women into these conflicts on a dime without seriously taking in the consequences of doing so.

 

Oh, they're very aware of the consequences. That makes their arrogance even more concerning.



#36 theyarecomingforyou

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 19:20

I know a lot of people say "Get rid of guns". I agree with them to a point.

 

If this was the early days of guns, and guns were just becoming available, to the point were you could actually get rid of them and stop anyone from getting them, bad guys included. Then, sure lets get rid of guns and just stab each other, punch each other, shoot each other with arrows or throw rocks.

 

But that's not the case, not by a long shot. There are millions upon millions of guns.

What's needed is sensible policies regarding gun ownership. For starters, there is no need for large magazines and they should be criminalised - that would make it more difficult for mass shootings to be carried out. Loopholes regarding weapon sales should be closed. Mental health issues and circumstances should be factors in allowing gun ownership. Gun owners should be required to demonstrate that they have their weapons properly secured in locked cabinets. Certain calibres and weapon types should be restricted altogether. In incidents where guns have not been stored safely and children have been injured or died those individuals should be banned from owning them.

 

Obviously the US cannot move to European style restrictions overnight and never will do but at the moment there isn't even any momentum in the right direction - in fact there are movements to further liberalise gun ownership and use. Instead there should be common sense solutions to improve the current situation, which nobody can consider is acceptable.

 

Once again, members outside the US start arguments.

I don't see any arguments, I see discussions relating to the issues.

 

It isn't a small number?

 

Do you have an amount of how many incidents per year?

Around 600 people per year are shot by police in the US. That compares to zero shot in the UK and six in Germany.



#37 +warwagon

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 19:23

What's needed is sensible policies regarding gun ownership. For starters, there is no need for large magazines and they should be criminalised - that would make it more difficult for mass shootings to be carried out.



#38 SpeedyTheSnail

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 19:29

What's needed is sensible policies regarding gun ownership. For starters, there is no need for large magazines and they should be criminalised - that would make it more difficult for mass shootings to be carried out. Loopholes regarding weapon sales should be closed. Mental health issues and circumstances should be factors in allowing gun ownership. Gun owners should be required to demonstrate that they have their weapons properly secured in locked cabinets. Certain calibres and weapon types should be restricted altogether. In incidents where guns have not been stored safely and children have been injured or died those individuals should be banned from owning them.

 

Obviously the US cannot move to European style restrictions overnight and never will do but at the moment there isn't even any momentum in the right direction - in fact there are movements to further liberalise gun ownership and use. Instead there should be common sense solutions to improve the current situation, which nobody can consider is acceptable.

 

I don't see any arguments, I see discussions relating to the issues.

 

Around 600 people per year are shot by police in the US. That compares to zero shot in the UK and six in Germany.

What is so criminal about having large magazines? The great great majority who have large magazines do not commit crimes. Therefore, it is not criminal to have a large magazine. How many people are beat by police in the UK compared to the US (lets forget Rodney King).

 

I have apparently disgruntled a mod in this thread, and have received 2 warning points.



#39 adrynalyne

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 19:38

What's needed is sensible policies regarding gun ownership. For starters, there is no need for large magazines and they should be criminalised - that would make it more difficult for mass shootings to be carried out. Loopholes regarding weapon sales should be closed. Mental health issues and circumstances should be factors in allowing gun ownership. Gun owners should be required to demonstrate that they have their weapons properly secured in locked cabinets. Certain calibres and weapon types should be restricted altogether. In incidents where guns have not been stored safely and children have been injured or died those individuals should be banned from owning them.

 

Obviously the US cannot move to European style restrictions overnight and never will do but at the moment there isn't even any momentum in the right direction - in fact there are movements to further liberalise gun ownership and use. Instead there should be common sense solutions to improve the current situation, which nobody can consider is acceptable.

 

I don't see any arguments, I see discussions relating to the issues.

 

Around 600 people per year are shot by police in the US. That compares to zero shot in the UK and six in Germany.

I meant unjustified.

 

Care to give it another go?



#40 DocM

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 19:40

In the 1990's the Feds had a large magazine and assault weapons ban. It had a sunset provision and so it expired. In the many studies that followed it was found the magazine limits and assault weapons ban had ZERO net effect. None. Zip. Nada. It was not renewed.

#41 SpeedyTheSnail

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 19:47

In the 1990's the Feds had a large magazine and assault weapons ban. It had a sunset provision and so it expired. In the many studies that followed it was found the magazine limits and assault weapons ban had ZERO net effect. None. Zip. Nada. It was not renewed.

DocM always holds the truth! Now my last year in the Marine Corps, they banned high capacity magazines from the PX. If we needed to replace a damaged weapon magazine, it would come out of our pay at a greater cost than we could buy at the military exchange. They only removed those for sale to please the 'honorable' Mr. Obama (which is why Generals shouldn't be politicians).



#42 xrobwx

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 20:06

there seems a simple solution here... don't allow chumps like this Mickiel access to weapons??!

 

Then no one would need them... oh wait, that's probably too sensible.

How do you dis-allow access? Ban all weapons? Cocaine is illegal. Methamphetamine is illegal. Drinking and Driving above .08 BAL is illegal. etc, etc. What is the answer? 


I know a lot of people say "Get rid of guns". I agree with them to a point.

 

If this was the early days of guns, and guns were just becoming available, to the point were you could actually get rid of them and stop anyone from getting them, bad guys included. Then, sure lets get rid of guns and just stab each other, punch each other, shoot each other with arrows or throw rocks.

 

But that's not the case, not by a long shot. There are millions upon millions of guns.

 

Its very simple.

 

Government makes laws, bad guys don't care.

 

Government takes guns bad guys don't care and they keep theirs.

 

Like the one guy says "If someone breaks into your house with a gun with the intent to rob and kill, sure you can call 911 and  they will come ... and take a picture of your dead body!"

 

...

 

It's like the honest consumer that buys a $2,000 piece of software and then is forced to have a USB security dongle inserted into  their computer to even use the piece of software they just dropped $2,000 for because OMG they might be a pirate.

 

When the ACTUAL pirate just cracks the software and uses it WITHOUT the dongle not being inconvenienced at all!

++++1, LIKE, A+, atta boy etc....



#43 xrobwx

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 20:15

What's needed is sensible policies regarding gun ownership. For starters, there is no need for large magazines and they should be criminalised - that would make it more difficult for mass shootings to be carried out. Loopholes regarding weapon sales should be closed. 

There ARE numerous policies. felons/criminals ignore them. So, if there was a policy or law that you couldn't have a drum magazine in the 1930's, this would have prevented or made it more difficult for Al Capone, John Dillinger ( replace with any mass murderers name from any era) from ordering the death of so many people? Loopholes? We don't need no stinkin loopholes..... 

 

http://en.wikipedia....States_by_state



#44 Wyn6

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 20:25

I wasn't going to comment in this thread, but just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.

 

Warwagon, what are you trying to say with this video? I hope it's not that due to the ability to speed load, massive amounts of people can still be killed with magazines that hold a smaller number of rounds.

 

If that's the case, then I guess we can all win Olympic gold in the 200m dash, eh? Or, we can all be flying aces, or world class race car drivers, etc. Most people do not possess the skill set to do the above. These skills belong to an elite few.

 

Now, if you were simply posting a video that you really like, nevermind and that guy is really fast.



#45 +warwagon

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 20:28

I wasn't going to comment in this thread, but just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.

 

Warwagon, what are you trying to say with this video? I hope it's not that due to the ability to speed load, massive amounts of people can still be killed with magazines that hold a smaller number of rounds.

 

Correct. But theyarecomingforyou's argument was that you should get rid of larger magazines. That video just proves that if you took away that guy's large magazine he would just bring more smaller ones with him. Wouldn't slow him down much.