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Posted

Oh, brother....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/10977082/Russian-government-edits-Wikipedia-on-flight-MH17.html

A political battle has broken out on Wikipedia over an entry relating to the crash of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17, with the Russian government reportedly removing sections which accuse it of providing "terrorists" with missiles that were used to down the civilian airliner.

A Twitter bot which monitors edits made to the online encyclopaedia from Russian government IP addresses (unique numbers relating to certain computers or networks) has spotted that changes are being made to a page relating to the crash.

It appears that an internet user from within the All-Russia State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company (VGTRK) changed a Russian language version of a page listing civil aviation accidents to say that "The plane [flight MH17] was shot down by Ukrainian soldiers".
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Posted

Oh come on. A user with an IP address that supposedly belongs to a TV company != the Russian government. As the story goes on to say -- and as you should have mentioned -- the text that was removed was this: "by terrorists of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic with Buk system missiles, which the terrorists received from the Russian Federation". While neither version is credibly correct since the formal investigation has not concluded yet, this one-sided blaming does little to help the situation.

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Posted

All-Russia State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company (VGTRK) is the Russian government media arm, and it operates RIA Novosti.

If they had a problem with the content Wikipedia has procedures for that. This just makes them look lame.
-
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Posted

I know about what VGTRK is. However, there is no evidence to suggest that this edit was done at the direction of and in full knowledge by the Russian government. It is quite plausible that an employee of the company with too much time on his/her hands made that change. Any such employee does not represent the government and his/her actions should not be interpreted as the official position of the government. And, quite curiously, no one seems to be looking at investigating who made the initial change that said "by terrorists of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic with Buk system missiles, which the terrorists received from the Russian Federation". IP address of that change appears to be a private address in Odessa, so who is to say that an employee of Ukrainian government did not do this by him/herself? This is information war, not just one on the ground, and pointing fingers without concrete proof does not help.

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Posted

I know about what VGTRK is. However, there is no evidence to suggest that this edit was done at the direction of and in full knowledge by the Russian government. It is quite plausible that an employee of the company with too much time on his/her hands made that change. Any such employee does not represent the government and his/her actions should not be interpreted as the official position of the government. And, quite curiously, no one seems to be looking at investigating who made the initial change that said "by terrorists of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic with Buk system missiles, which the terrorists received from the Russian Federation". IP address of that change appears to be a private address in Odessa, so who is to say that an employee of Ukrainian government did not do this by him/herself? This is information war, not just one on the ground, and pointing fingers without concrete proof does not help.

plau

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Posted

Multiple theories are plausible at this point when the speculation is rife. However, all these talks and rhetoric are cheap and an independent investigation with full access to all the evidence must take place. Attributing blame to one side or another without publishing evidence so that it can be scrutinised is weak and lame.

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Posted

Multiple theories are plausible at this point when the speculation is rife. However, all these talks and rhetoric are cheap and an independent investigation with full access to all the evidence must take place. Attributing blame to one side or another without publishing evidence so that it can be scrutinised is weak and lame.

 

 

The problem with that is Russia doesn't want an independent investigation.  Its going to be very tough to get know exactly who launched the missile   There probable will never be justice for the victims.  

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Posted

I really wish the UK press would stop referring to the Russian soldiers occupying eastern Ukraine as "Pro-Russian separatists" and "militia". Call them what they are, terrorists and be done with it.

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Posted

It is just the Russian Mindset. Russians overwhelmingly support their government's actions in Ukraine.

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Posted

Worst propaganda NA. :laugh:

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Posted

I really wish the UK press would stop referring to the Russian soldiers occupying eastern Ukraine as "Pro-Russian separatists" and "militia". Call them what they are, terrorists and be done with it.

But they're not terrorists. Terrorists use fear and intimidation to achieve political aims - examples include the IRA, al Qaeda and the IDF. Usually they target civilians or political leaders to intimidate the population. What we're seeing in Ukraine is an attempt to seize control of a region from within (with assistance from Russia), which is an uprising, separatist movement or coup. The goal is not to create terror.

 

People use the term 'terrorism' far too broadly, to the point that it is almost meaningless.

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Posted

It's starting to feel like the 1980s again. Vladimir is "Putin" the USSR back together again.

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Posted

The problem with that is Russia doesn't want an independent investigation.  Its going to be very tough to get know exactly who launched the missile   There probable will never be justice for the victims.  

 

No side wants an independent investigation, because they have already made up their mind as to who is to blame. They want an investigation that finds in their favour which they can shout about from the rooftops in order to drive their agenda further.

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Posted

No side wants an independent investigation, because they have already made up their mind as to who is to blame. They want an investigation that finds in their favour which they can shout about from the rooftops in order to drive their agenda further.

 

 

That is absolutely false.  Everyone from the Malaysian government to the US and Western governments all called for an independent investigation. 

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Posted

It's starting to feel like the 1980s again. Vladimir is "Putin" the USSR back together again.


Yawn, if Putin pissed in the wind you'd be saying the same thing, like a broken record.
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Posted

But they're not terrorists. Terrorists use fear and intimidation to achieve political aims - examples include the IRA, al Qaeda and the IDF. Usually they target civilians or political leaders to intimidate the population. What we're seeing in Ukraine is an attempt to seize control of a region from within (with assistance from Russia), which is an uprising, separatist movement or coup. The goal is not to create terror.

 

People use the term 'terrorism' far too broadly, to the point that it is almost meaningless.

It doesn't surprise me you lumped IDF in with those two.  I'm surprised I don't see USMC in there as well by your standards.

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Posted

That is absolutely false.  Everyone from the Malaysian government to the US and Western governments all called for an independent investigation. 

 

Malaysian government does not have a dog in this fight, so them calling for an independent investigation I can take at face value. US and Western governments do have an agenda when it comes to this conflict, so them calling for an independent inquiry is simply paying lip service.

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Posted

That is absolutely false.  Everyone from the Malaysian government to the US and Western governments all called for an independent investigation. 

 

What he meant, is Ukraine and Russia are blaming each other and are UNLIKELY to provide a fair investigation!          

Of course Malaysian Government whats a fair investigation. 

But I assure you Ukrainian government has 0 interest to have a fair investigation, even if there is 0.1% chance that Ukrainian forces did

Taking their reports and investigations on face value is just as silly as trust the any interested parties to investigate a crime.

Only a team of international experts can come to a proper conclusions. 

 

As for editing Wiki!     The original post and corrected post are equality incorrect, as so far it is speculation.  Reading the original surely made some overzealous person edit to to the opposite. 

 

Just because it is likely that rebels did it, it is not proven.  Ukraine could have did it, and blame it on Russia, further isolating Russia and getting themselves international support. 

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Posted

Here's my 2 cents on this. In my country, very close to this conflict area, everyone believes that the Russians are to blame for this "accident", and also for the Ukraine situation. And as someone else said above, Putin seems like a "Stalin wanna-be" that wants a resurrection of USSR, and this will end really bad for him and, unfortunately, for the Russian citizens. I bet that 99% of Russia's people disagree with Putin's actions, but they are afraid to do something about it, as we were afraid to say anything when we were in communism. This nut job is gonna ruin the country with his actions...

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Posted

Malaysian government does not have a dog in this fight,
>


Bull. Maylasian Airlines is government owned and they had people on it. if that's not having "a dog in this fight" I don't know what is.

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Posted

Bull. Maylasian Airlines is government owned and they had people on it. if that's not having "a dog in this fight" I don't know what is.

 

Is it so hard to understand what he means?

For Malaysia it doesn't matter who done it, there is no vested interest for them to blame Russia or Ukraine

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Posted

It doesn't surprise me you lumped IDF in with those two.  I'm surprised I don't see USMC in there as well by your standards.

The IDF is a terror organisation, seeking to achieve political aims through violence, fear, coercion and intimidation - the very definition of terrorism. The USMC, like the British Army, has members who have committed war crimes but is not itself a terror organisation.

 

It is inaccurate to refer to the pro-Russian separatists as terrorists.

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Posted

The IDF is a terror organisation, seeking to achieve political aims through violence, fear, coercion and intimidation - the very definition of terrorism. The USMC, like the British Army, has members who have committed war crimes but is not itself a terror organisation.

 

It is inaccurate to refer to the pro-Russian separatists as terrorists.

 

The IDF is trying to mind their own business in a small area of land surrounded by hostile Moslem groups that want them eliminated. These Moslem groups like Humus keep shooting their dumb rockets into their land and after repeated warnings to stop, the IDF has no choice but to go in and bust up some stuff while the Humus militants use human shields and cry about civilian casualties.

 

The Russian separatists are not terrorists either. They are just a bunch of idiots.

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Posted

And so the propaganda war begins..
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Posted

Malaysian government does not have a dog in this fight, so them calling for an independent investigation I can take at face value. US and Western governments do have an agenda when it comes to this conflict, so them calling for an independent inquiry is simply paying lip service.

 

 

Then why isn't Russian calling for a independent investigation. Its pretty clear they trying cover up what the had hand in doing.

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