California man, 80 shot burglar despite pleas of pregnancy

[DocM]

Nor do I. He only tagged one.

A bunch more to go, and a huge percentage already carry weapons and not just firearms; machetes, clubs, knives, hammers, pipes, shovels, pitchforks. You name it - and that's just from this week's Detroit News.

In a great many places its a war out there, and the cops are 10-30 minutes (minimum) away when seconds count.

[redfish]

 

It's the fact the the guy took the law into his hands and decided to shoot her, it should be left to the police.

 

The problem isn't that he didn't leave it to the police. Both in UK and US law, you're allowed to use force to recover your property and to make a citizen's arrest. Your right to do that isn't just about defending your life. The relevant issue is reasonable force -- its illegal for both citizens and police officers alike to use excessive force. In most definitions, that would include killing someone by shooting them repeatedly in the back.

 

If he found a way to catch them or stop them or was able to knock them unconscious, he would have been perfectly okay, even if they were fleeing.

[blerk]

I don't feel safer because some old man with a gun couldn't restrain himself.

Also, quite frankly, this wont keep burglars at bay. All it will do is encourage them to actually carry weapons and then we will actually have something to fear. Unarmed ###### stealing some ###### is one thing. Armed ###### assuming they'll need to defend themselves is scary.

 I would bet that a significant proportion of burglars already carry some form of weapon with them, anything from a club to a knife or gun.  It's not exactly like they're law abiding citizens anyway... 

[DocM]

Just came over the news she was NOT pregnant, and the homeowner was both beaten and body slammed. He fired a .22 caliber pistol.

[Ian W]

Odd how so many are upset over criminals {who repeatedly victimize others}, get taken down.

We should be happy that we get to live in a safer world and applaud this guy for not bending over for them.

"lets hug, and kiss everyone, while we listen to their stories, and come to an understanding about why they become worthless criminals, then we can hold hands and dance on rainbows".

Yeah keep doing that while they play and steal from you.

in the meantime, us people who live in the real world, and don't want to be victims, will protect ourselves and our families.

As far as I am aware, no one who has responded to this topic has written or even suggested such ridiculous nonsense.

[Gone]

I don't feel safer because some old man with a gun couldn't restrain himself.

Also, quite frankly, this wont keep burglars at bay. All it will do is encourage them to actually carry weapons and then we will actually have something to fear. Unarmed ###### stealing some ###### is one thing. Armed ###### assuming they'll need to defend themselves is scary.

Afraid of guns much?

 

I feel safer with armed law abiding citizens than illegally armed thugs. Or thugs who will beat the crap out of you while the sissies cry about how you should have let them beat the crap out of you instead of defending yourself during or after.

 

People don't like thinking that the world would be a better place without other specific people in it. Probably the same people who would defend Hitler' or Stalin's actions, the present existence of North Korea, mass Genocides in Africa and the Middle East, etc.

[COKid]

I don't feel safer because some old man with a gun couldn't restrain himself.

Also, quite frankly, this wont keep burglars at bay. All it will do is encourage them to actually carry weapons and then we will actually have something to fear. Unarmed ###### stealing some ###### is one thing. Armed ###### assuming they'll need to defend themselves is scary.

 

I'm generally not pro-gun, but that last statement got me to thinking: Perhaps if the criminals had a little fear in them, they might refrain from breaking into people's homes.

 

Play it out to the extreme. Imagine every homeowner in America had a gun. Would there be fewer break-ins? I hate to admit it, but I think there would be.

 

Anyhow, interesting debate.

[spenser.d]

I'm generally not pro-gun, but that last statement got me to thinking: Perhaps if the criminals had a little fear in them, they might refrain from breaking into people's homes.

 

Just a thought.

 

History has proven time and again that fear isn't a deterrent for criminals (not to mention scientific study). That's why our prison system isn't worth ######. The only thing that'll come from the mentality of some of those in this thread is what you quoted me saying.

[theyarecomingforyou]

All this Monday morning quarterbacking about what the homeowner "should have done" instead but virtually no comments that the robbers should have not broken into his home in the first place.

I'm sorry, where did you see anyone defending the actions of the burglars? Their wrongdoing isn't in dispute, nor is the fact they assaulted him. However, he chased after an unarmed assailant and killed them as they begged for their life. That is a crime (or if it isn't in the US it should be).

 

If I was getting shot at I'd tell the shooter that I was Jesus Christ. Was she pregnant, I highly doubt it.

It was confirmed by the coroner that she wasn't pregnant. But that is immaterial, as he didn't know that and it doesn't have any bearing on his crime - she could have been a drug dealing prostitute and it wouldn't have been any less wrong. For all we know she could have believed she was pregnant but we'll never known, as this guy killed her out of vengeance.

 

Nor do I. He only tagged one.

It's weird the way you disassociate the act of killing by using a term like 'tagged'. It's very callous. :no:

 

In a great many places its a war out there, and the cops are 10-30 minutes (minimum) away when seconds count.

Chasing after unarmed assailants and gunning them down when they pose no threat to your life isn't a valid alternative to calling the police. Committing a crime doesn't mean any crime in revenge is fair game. It's like the situation in Israel - there were Palestinians in the West Bank throwing rocks at cars and the Israeli settlers gunned them down. That's an insane reaction. It shows a general contempt for human life.

[cork1958]

They beat him up and he had no way of knowing if they were going to come back and attack him again.    His actions were justified.

 

I was beginning to wonder if anyone actually read the whole article for a minute! Couldn't agree more, especially since this was the third time the guy had been burglarized!

 

The lady shouting she's pregnant is to bad. Shouldn't be out stealing crap then!

 

Granted, maybe, the guy shouldn't have given chase, but cool as heck to know that an 80 year old guy is doing that!!

[Dot Matrix]

Don't want to be tried for murder? Don't chase after and kill someone when they pose no threat to you. Simple.

I'm not debating what the man did, but if the woman was pregnant, than she was knowingly putting herself in harms way. If she cared at all about that, she wouldn't have entered the man's (or anyone's) home in a burglary attempt.

[Gone]

 

I'm sorry, where did you see anyone defending the actions of the burglars? Their wrongdoing isn't in dispute, nor is the fact they assaulted him. However, he chased after an unarmed assailant and killed them as they begged for their life. That is a crime (or if it isn't in the US it should be).

 

 

It was confirmed by the coroner that she wasn't pregnant. But that is immaterial, as he didn't know that and it doesn't have any bearing on his crime - she could have been a drug dealing prostitute and it wouldn't have been any less wrong. For all we know she could have believed she was pregnant but we'll never known, as this guy killed her out of vengeance.

 

It's weird the way you disassociate the act of killing by using a term like 'tagged'. It's very callous. :no:

 

Chasing after unarmed assailants and gunning them down when they pose no threat to your life isn't a valid alternative to calling the police. Committing a crime doesn't mean any crime in revenge is fair game. It's like the situation in Israel - there were Palestinians in the West Bank throwing rocks at cars and the Israeli settlers gunned them down. That's an insane reaction. It shows a general contempt for human life.

 

You mean how Palestinians launch rockets into Israeli civilian populations? Palestine needs to be wiped off the planet, because it's what they want to do to the Jews.

 

If she killed this guy with a knife then nobody would complain. But when he killed her, who broke his collar bone (and he's 80, I don't think many of you know how hard recovery is for old people), oh no how could he do it booo hoo hooo gun control no vengence.

 

Criminals who fear their life will not commit a crime, but criminals who know the American prison and justice system will let them get away with assault and attempted murder, there is no fear. If they fear entering a house because the guy may have a gun, they won't do it. Or they will, be shot, and then the world is a better place.

[123456789A]

I don't feel safer because some old man with a gun couldn't restrain himself.

Also, quite frankly, this wont keep burglars at bay. All it will do is encourage them to actually carry weapons and then we will actually have something to fear. Unarmed ###### stealing some ###### is one thing. Armed ###### assuming they'll need to defend themselves is scary.

 

Common burglars are pretty dumb. The ones that arm themselves tend to have insider knowledge of what they're going after. The ones that randomly break in to your house can't afford a gun because they spend it all on drugs. Still, both varieties are dangerous and should be eliminated immediately.

[Dot Matrix]

Most burglaries are crimes of opportunity. Many will enter a home not knowing the homeowner, or knowing if/when the homeowner will return. The armed ones are more where you have the criminal actually scope out, and research a target. They know what you have, and are after specific things.

[DocM]

And many times what they're after is you because the motive is beating, raping and killing for entertainment. Property isn't an issue.

[theyarecomingforyou]

I'm not debating what the man did, but if the woman was pregnant, than she was knowingly putting herself in harms way.

By committing the burglary she put herself in harms way but that doesn't excuse the actions of the homeowner, who chased after her and gunned her down as she was pleading for her life. Nobody has tried to defend the actions of the woman. If someone believes their life is in danger they have every right to do whatever they can to defend it but that wasn't the case here.

And many times what they're after is you because the motive is beating, raping and killing for entertainment. Property isn't an issue.

That is the exception, not the rule. Most of the time they try to avoid any contact, as that makes it easier to get away with the crime.

[Dot Matrix]

If someone believes their life is in danger they have every right to do whatever they can to defend it but that wasn't the case here.

The article mentions that the man was beaten, quite severely, by this woman.

[DocM]

>

That is the exception, not the rule. Most of the time they try to avoid any contact, as that makes it easier to get away with the crime.

Another misinformed unicorn lover chimes in. You don't know Jack on home invasion.

It happens so often Michigan passed a Home Invasion law to distinguish them from ordinary burglaries.

It happens so often the state police, sheriff's and locals have also organized Home Invasion Task Forces. In areas like Detroit the Feds also get involved.

It happens so often local and other agencies also issue Home Invasion Advisories when there are too many in a local area (translation: lock your doors & windows and load your shotguns)

Chicago area counties do the same. I'm sure other areas do too.

It is a major and growing problem.

[f0rk_b0mb]

When someone breaks into your house, you gotta kill em or they are going to come back and get you.

[Dot Matrix]

Another misinformed unicorn lover chimes in. You don't know Jack on home invasion.

It happens so often Michigan passed a Home Invasion law to distinguish them from ordinary burglaries.

It happens so often the state police, sheriff's and locals have also organized Home Invasion Task Forces. In areas like Detroit the Feds also get involved.

It happens so often local and other agencies also issue Home Invasion Advisories when there are too many in a local area (translation: lock your doors & windows and load your shotguns)

Chicago area counties do the same. I'm sure other areas do too.

It is a major and growing problem.

There are quite a few videos on YouTube of Detroit area home invasions. Quite scary. :/

[blank]

By committing the burglary she put herself in harms way but that doesn't excuse the actions of the homeowner, who chased after her and gunned her down as she was pleading for her life. Nobody has tried to defend the actions of the woman. If someone believes their life is in danger they have every right to do whatever they can to defend it but that wasn't the case here.

That is the exception, not the rule. Most of the time they try to avoid any contact, as that makes it easier to get away with the crime.

Your main problem is you think criminals have rules, guidelines, or something special that they follow. Reality is: criminals are the lowest of the lowest in our society and aren't up to good, period.

It's not up to us to decide what type of criminal they are. It's up to us to decide if we want to live or not, or take a chance, and im not willing to take the chance. Breaking into my home will result in a similar fashion as the situation that created this topic.

They robbed, beat this guy and only ran because he pulled out a gun.

Don't wanna get shot? Then don't break into people's houses and harm them. Simple.

[chrisj1968]

this lady has used absolutely no judgement. if she were pregnant, then could she be brought up on charges of harming her fetus? (assuming she's pregnant). 

 

some people are so stupid these days... no common sense whatsoever. :/

[DocM]

She was lying - not pregnant.

[theyarecomingforyou]

Your main problem is you think criminals have rules, guidelines, or something special that they follow. Reality is: criminals are the lowest of the lowest in our society and aren't up to good, period.

It's not up to us to decide what type of criminal they are. It's up to us to decide if we want to live or not, or take a chance, and im not willing to take the chance. Breaking into my home will result in a similar fashion as the situation that created this topic.

As I said, I fully support self-defence and these two were clearly violent individuals. The line was crossed when he chased them off his property and gunned the woman down in cold blood out of vengeance while she was begging for her life - his life was clearly not in danger at that point given they were unarmed and fleeing. That is absolutely unacceptable and makes him as much of a criminal as the people he was chasing.

[MikeChipshop Member]

Knee jerk reaction caused by anger.

 

Whether or not she was pregnant shouldn't even enter the conversation.