26 posts in this topic

Posted

People only get why these breaches of church state separation are bad when it bites them in the ass like this.

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Posted

Amish are exempt from the Social security system, and Santeria practitioners can behead chickens and other critters in their rituals which others would get charged with animal cruelty for doing (Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye v. City of Hialeah.)

This is precisely the kind of thing the Religious Freedom Restoraction Act was created for, though this group is obviously just satirizing it.

Welcome to the party.

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Posted

oh, religion...

 

here come the picketing christians detesting Satanism even though they know absolutely nothing about it.

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Posted

"The group says its central mission is to

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Posted

Amish are exempt from the Social security system, and Santeria practitioners can behead chickens and other critters in their rituals which others would get charged with animal cruelty for doing (Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye v. City of Hialeah.)

This is precisely the kind of thing the Religious Freedom Restoraction Act was created for, though this group is obviously just satirizing it.

Welcome to the party.

 

Which is why religions should not be granted ANY special dispensations beyond anything anyone else gets.  Stop with the special treatment, period.

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Posted

Well, I certainly agree -- Satanists should not reproduce. ;)

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Posted

Well, I certainly agree -- Satanists should not reproduce. ;)

 

I guess you are joking, but it really seems like you are missing the point.  Religions should not be exempt from laws.

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Posted

^ Many laws descend from religions. ;)

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Posted

One of the primary reasons The colonies and our country were founded was a search for religious freedom. Pennsylvania was founded by Quakers, etc. Primarily because of religious discrimination in Europe, so pardon us if we respectfully ignore advice from over the pond. We've been there, done that and escaped.

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Posted

They aren't real Satanists.

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Posted

We know, I notes it in post 3. The argument has evolved past that.

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Posted

Just like the one southern state that wanted to allow money to go to school of parents choosing (including religious), then realizing after the fact a school with Islam influence could theoretically receive state tax money because some parents could choose it wanted to change her mind. 

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Posted

They aren't real Satanists.

I hope not.

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Posted

One of the primary reasons The colonies and our country were founded was a search for religious freedom. Pennsylvania was founded by Quakers, etc. Primarily because of religious discrimination in Europe, so pardon us if we respectfully ignore advice from over the pond. We've been there, done that and escaped.

 

You haven't even remotely escaped.  In fact, there are far more christian fundies in the US than just about anywhere else in the world, and most of them are complete whackadoos!

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Posted

It wasn't the "fundies" causing the problems,

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Posted

Amish are exempt from the Social security system, and Santeria practitioners can behead chickens and other critters in their rituals which others would get charged with animal cruelty for doing (Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye v. City of Hialeah.)

This is precisely the kind of thing the Religious Freedom Restoraction Act was created for, though this group is obviously just satirizing it.

Welcome to the party.

DocM - it's not satire.  Either religious freedom applies to ALL religions or it applies to none.  That is the issue with the "letter of the law" - when taken literally, it can't be danced around.

 

It's why I STILL find "Stranger in a Strange Land" very interesting reading - it tackles precisely this issue. (While the United States has done the best job of dealing with it, even the US has made more than their share of mis-steps there.)

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Posted

DocM - it's not satire.  Either religious freedom applies to ALL religions or it applies to none.  That is the issue with the "letter of the law" - when taken literally, it can't be danced around.

 

It's why I STILL find "Stranger in a Strange Land" very interesting reading - it tackles precisely this issue. (While the United States has done the best job of dealing with it, even the US has made more than their share of mis-steps there.)

 

 

Fantastic book

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Posted

Agreed on Stranger in a Strange Land.

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Posted

Agreed on Stranger in a Strange Land.

DocM and others - the biggest problem with "religious freedom" - anywhere and everywhere - is that someone is always looking for a religion that it "shouldn't" be applied to - such as Scientology, Hare Krishna, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, etc.  (All four of the former have been targeted - and that is just in the United States - I shudder to think about what is thought of Falun Gong.)

 

Satanism - if Satan is worshipped as the equivalent to God (any of them), then, by the letter of ANY law regarding religious freedom, then the same rules MUST apply to Satanist sects that apply to Christian religions - or any OTHER religions.  That is the reality of letter-of-law arguments - all or none.  "Spirit of law" arguments are designed to find ways around such absolutes - the equivalent of "carve outs".  However, looked at realistically, such "carve outs" are a form of discrimination - either in favor of, or against - the "carved out" religion or sect.

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Posted

DocM and others - the biggest problem with "religious freedom" - anywhere and everywhere - is that someone is always looking for a religion that it "shouldn't" be applied to - such as Scientology, Hare Krishna, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, etc.  (All four of the former have been targeted - and that is just in the United States - I shudder to think about what is thought of Falun Gong.)

 

Satanism - if Satan is worshipped as the equivalent to God (any of them), then, by the letter of ANY law regarding religious freedom, then the same rules MUST apply to Satanist sects that apply to Christian religions - or any OTHER religions.  That is the reality of letter-of-law arguments - all or none.  "Spirit of law" arguments are designed to find ways around such absolutes - the equivalent of "carve outs".  However, looked at realistically, such "carve outs" are a form of discrimination - either in favor of, or against - the "carved out" religion or sect.

 

Agreed whole heartedly.  Now, if they can show a way that the Government does not Undue Burden them with the requirement, then that work around works.

That is what was used here.  The Government had a method that was not an Undue Burden.   They have the right to redress the Government to have that heard.

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Posted

^ Many laws descend from religions. ;)

 

Laws were invented to maintain social order. It wasn't like no one understood murder was bad or theft was wrong before religion came along and told everyone.

 

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Posted

They aren't real Satanists.

 

why ? what's a real satanist ? there are many different types. most are about you being your own god, not worshipping the evil devil and sacrificing virgins

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Posted

Cause I can't think of a worse oxymoron than Atheistic Satanism. :)

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Posted

Cause I can't think of a worse oxymoron than Atheistic Satanism. :)

 

I suppose you could say that rather than a religion, it's a

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