Jump to content



Photo

Impossible Space Drive


  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 watkinsx2

watkinsx2

    Neowinian

  • 331 posts
  • Joined: 11-December 01
  • Location: Hertfordshire
  • OS: Windows 7
  • Phone: HTC One/Lumia 920

Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:45

Game changer or will this amount to nothing? I wonder if Space X would be looking at something like this to cut Earth>Mars transfer times.
 

Nasa is a major player in space science, so when a team from the agency this week presents evidence that "impossible" microwave thrusters seem to work, something strange is definitely going on. Either the results are completely wrong, or Nasa has confirmed a major breakthrough in space propulsion.

British scientist Roger Shawyer has been trying to interest people in his EmDrive for some years through his company SPR Ltd. Shawyer claims the EmDrive converts electric power into thrust, without the need for any propellant by bouncing microwaves around in a closed container. He has built a number of demonstration systems, but critics reject his relativity-based theory and insist that, according to the law of conservation of momentum, it cannot work.

According to good scientific practice, an independent third party needed to replicate Shawyer's results. As Wired.co.uk reported, this happened last year when a Chinese team built its own EmDrive and confirmed that it produced 720 mN (about 72 grams) of thrust, enough for a practical satellite thruster. Such a thruster could be powered by solar electricity, eliminating the need for the supply of propellant that occupies up to half the launch mass of many satellites. The Chinese work attracted little attention; it seems that nobody in the West believed in it.

However, a US scientist, Guido Fetta, has built his own propellant-less microwave thruster, and managed to persuade Nasa to test it out. The test results were presented on July 30 at the 50th Joint Propulsion Conference in Cleveland, Ohio. Astonishingly enough, they are positive.

Continued at:

http://www.wired.co....ble-space-drive

 

NASA has conducted long-awaited experiments to prove that the fabled space drive, capable of generating its own thrust and breaking a fundamental law of physics, works. If the find survives fresh scrutiny, space ship construction will be revolutionized.

The drive’s creator, British scientist Roger Shawyer, has been facing criticism since his 2006 claims, based on the premise that thrust can be created without huge thrusters, instead using electricity to direct microwaves inside a special container.

Shawyer’s company, SPR Ltd., writes that it has “demonstrated a remarkable new space propulsion technology. [It] has successfully tested both an experimental thruster and a demonstrator engine which use patented microwave technology to convert electrical energy directly into thrust. No propellant is used in the conversion process. Thrust is produced by the amplification of the radiation pressure of an electromagnetic wave propagated through a resonant waveguide assembly.”

In short, if the results hold up, humanity can say goodbye to huge energy consumption costs associated with space travel, and say hello to deep-space missions and distant world exploration at a fraction of the cost and at 100 times the speed.

Continued at:

http://rt.com/usa/17...-drive-emdrive/


Edited by zhangm, 01 August 2014 - 16:14. Reason: Added excerpts.



#2 Hum

Hum

    totally wAcKed

  • 62,862 posts
  • Joined: 05-October 03
  • Location: Odder Space
  • OS: Windows XP, 7

Posted 01 August 2014 - 16:03

Nothing is impossible



#3 DocM

DocM

    Neowinian Senior

  • 17,750 posts
  • Joined: 31-July 10
  • Location: Michigan

Posted 01 August 2014 - 16:15

EM drive is extremely controversial, and definitely not ready for anything outside the lab. This latest info isn't even a paper - more like an extended abstract.

#4 Krome

Krome

    Neowinian God!

  • 4,239 posts
  • Joined: 29-August 01

Posted 01 August 2014 - 18:06

Sorry DocM for the word I am about to use to describe your statement.  I think what you did there is a display of extreme ignorance.  If you are on a mission to suppress human progress, then I think it's a good tactic.  But people with that mindset should not go outside lol.  Just stay inside and enjoy the tv and your coffee.

 

Many scientists had proven that it worked on paper already.  The next step is to make such a device.  NASA wants to play catch up with China and you say no don't do it, it's just theoretical stuff.



#5 DocM

DocM

    Neowinian Senior

  • 17,750 posts
  • Joined: 31-July 10
  • Location: Michigan

Posted 01 August 2014 - 22:57

Calling people "ignorant" is no way to make friends and influence opinions.

Note that I said it was controversial. That's because more propulsion people in and out of NASA think there are problems with their experimental setup than don't.

On red flag is that of the two experiments one was designed to produce no thrust, but did. That alone indicates a problem on the theoretical side.

Another problem is that the test chamber was not a vacuum, it had air in it which could generate thrust by ionic effects. Thrust could also be generated by simple radiation pressure from the systems microwaves.

This not being a peer reviewed full paper, just an experimental report, it doesn't give enough details to eliminate these. Skepticism is therefore high even within NASA.

But the Nasa team has avoided trying to explain its results in favour of simply reporting what it found: "This paper will not address the physics of the quantum vacuum plasma thruster, but instead will describe the test integration, test operations, and the results obtained from the test campaign.



#6 xrobwx

xrobwx

    Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.

  • 979 posts
  • Joined: 14-June 03
  • Location: Panama City Beach, FL USA
  • OS: Win 8.1
  • Phone: Galaxy Note II

Posted 01 August 2014 - 23:27

EM drive is extremely controversial, and definitely not ready for anything outside the lab. This latest info isn't even a paper - more like an extended abstract.

They'll get it done in the town of Eureka!



#7 Gerowen

Gerowen

    Neowinian Senior

  • 3,455 posts
  • Joined: 28-August 05
  • Location: Hills of Kentucky
  • OS: Ubuntu Linux

Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:48

The name of this topic reminds me of the "Infinite Improbability Drive", :p



#8 +techbeck

techbeck

    Neowinian Senior

  • 18,482 posts
  • Joined: 20-January 05

Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:54

,,,,,

Attached Images

  • h10F43792.jpg


#9 The_Decryptor

The_Decryptor

    STEAL THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE

  • 19,409 posts
  • Joined: 28-September 02
  • Location: Sol System
  • OS: iSymbian 9.2 SP24.8 Mars Bar

Posted 02 August 2014 - 02:26

An "impossible drive" that violates the laws of physics? hahaha

#10 Krome

Krome

    Neowinian God!

  • 4,239 posts
  • Joined: 29-August 01

Posted 02 August 2014 - 03:28

Calling people "ignorant" is no way to make friends and influence opinions.
 

Yeah I know... I feel bad for using a strong word... It always got to me when there are those that attempt to stall or stop progress that would eventually affect human race.



#11 The_Decryptor

The_Decryptor

    STEAL THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE

  • 19,409 posts
  • Joined: 28-September 02
  • Location: Sol System
  • OS: iSymbian 9.2 SP24.8 Mars Bar

Posted 02 August 2014 - 07:00

"Real scientists" think it's bunk too so...

The fact that NASA got a force out of both of their tests shows a measurement error, since one of the tests was supposed to be a non-moving control.

#12 FloatingFatMan

FloatingFatMan

    Resident Fat Dude

  • 15,862 posts
  • Joined: 23-August 04
  • Location: UK

Posted 02 August 2014 - 08:06

"Real scientists" think it's bunk too so...

The fact that NASA got a force out of both of their tests shows a measurement error, since one of the tests was supposed to be a non-moving control.

 

Indeed.  I'm rather curious as to why they didn't try to find where the error was, and make sure they had a proper vacuum... Seems somewhat sloppy for NASA work, to be honest...



#13 francescob

francescob

    Neowinian Senior

  • 1,882 posts
  • Joined: 04-November 08

Posted 02 August 2014 - 08:18

Nothing is impossible

It do just!



#14 FloatingFatMan

FloatingFatMan

    Resident Fat Dude

  • 15,862 posts
  • Joined: 23-August 04
  • Location: UK

Posted 02 August 2014 - 08:24

It do just!

 

Huh? :huh:



#15 T3X4S

T3X4S

    Neowinian

  • 979 posts
  • Joined: 28-October 13

Posted 02 August 2014 - 08:40

They'll get it done in the town of Eureka!

Get it done ?  Hell some kid did it for a science project !