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Elliot B.

Which Nikon DSLR (<

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My friend is looking for a Nikon DSLR.
 
I believe his current options are:

  • D3100, ?320, Aug 2010, 18-55mm VR lens
  • D3200, ?340, Apr 2012, 18-55mm VR lens
  • D3300, ?410, Jan 2014, 18-55mm VR II lens
  • D5100, ?447, Apr 2011, 18-55mm VR lens
  • D5200, ?485, Jan 2014, 18-55mm VR II lens

Any thoughts?

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I guess that all boils down to what you are gonna do with it.

 

Obviously the D5200 is great camera and therefore that's the best one to get. :)

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I guess that all boils down to what you are gonna do with it.

 

Obviously the D5200 is great camera and therefore that's the best one to get. :)

+1 does he plan on getting lens in the future or stay on kit lens?  If so, just buy cheapest and used the remaining to buy a nifty fifty...

 

Algo, go nikon love huh eliot :P

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I have a Nikon D5100 and its great, the D5200 is just an upgrade so id go with that. Also get a 35mm and 50mm f1.8 lens ASAP they are so good for the price.

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I have a Nikon D5100 and its great, the D5200 is just an upgrade so id go with that. Also get a 35mm and 50mm f1.8 lens ASAP they are so good for the price.

What does that lens do? Let you zoom more?

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What does that lens do? Let you zoom more?

 

Those lenses dont zoom at all - they are fixed zooms (also known as Prime lenses).

 

The reason you would get them is for the large aperture (lower f-number).

 

This is important for creating very shallow depth of field which blurs the background of the object you're shooting giving more pleasing photos.

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I have a Nikon D5100 and its great, the D5200 is just an upgrade so id go with that. Also get a 35mm and 50mm f1.8 lens ASAP they are so good for the price.

?148 and ?147 are expensive. I'll leave them for now.

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Agreed with most here, if you want the "best" possible model then the 5200 is the one. I have a 5100 and it's great :D

 

I would however ask your friend why they firstly want Nikon and secondly why they want a DSLR? Something that a friend once said to me when I started looking into getting one was around one annoyance of people who think the Camera is the big difference in the photo's. Sure they are more configurable to achieve certain things but most people don't need things like this and something like a Nikon Coolpix would be more than enough to do what they need it to do. If they are going to buy this camera and forever leave it in Auto mode then for me, its been a bit of a waste of money.

 

Owning a DSLR is expensive, there is always one more thing you need to buy to achieve the amazing shots (Tripod, Remote, Flash, Zoom Lens, Fixed focal lens).

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Does it have to be a new one ? he could probably get a used 7000 for under 500. 

 

a 5x00 will of course be more than adequate, but... if he can afford it AND IF he actually plans to do serious photography and stick with it and grow with it a 7000 will last him a lot longer letting him focus on glass for a while. 

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Agreed with most here, if you want the "best" possible model then the 5200 is the one. I have a 5100 and it's great :D

 

I would however ask your friend why they firstly want Nikon and secondly why they want a DSLR? Something that a friend once said to me when I started looking into getting one was around one annoyance of people who think the Camera is the big difference in the photo's. Sure they are more configurable to achieve certain things but most people don't need things like this and something like a Nikon Coolpix would be more than enough to do what they need it to do. If they are going to buy this camera and forever leave it in Auto mode then for me, its been a bit of a waste of money.

 

Owning a DSLR is expensive, there is always one more thing you need to buy to achieve the amazing shots (Tripod, Remote, Flash, Zoom Lens, Fixed focal lens).

Agreed on this, I know too many people who bought a dSLR just cause they thought it would make them the best photographers having the most ultra pixels and huge camera + lens. Truth be told, i've seen better photographs from smartphones than dSLR from those same users. 

 

Does it have to be a new one ? he could probably get a used 7000 for under 500. 

 

a 5x00 will of course be more than adequate, but... if he can afford it AND IF he actually plans to do serious photography and stick with it and grow with it a 7000 will last him a lot longer letting him focus on glass for a while. 

This is also a good idea  www.keh.com has some goods, though don't know teh UK equivalent, perhaps ebay?  Refurbs are a pretty good deal. I remember reading once, how some people considered refurbs to be double-tested, since they had probably already been returned for some reason (defective in most cases), so double the quality test.

 

OP, you didn't respond what your friends normally shoots?

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Agreed on this, I know too many people who bought a dSLR just cause they thought it would make them the best photographers having the most ultra pixels and huge camera + lens. Truth be told, i've seen better photographs from smartphones than dSLR from those same users. 

 

This is also a good idea  www.keh.com has some goods, though don't know teh UK equivalent, perhaps ebay?  Refurbs are a pretty good deal. I remember reading once, how some people considered refurbs to be double-tested, since they had probably already been returned for some reason (defective in most cases), so double the quality test.

 

OP, you didn't respond what your friends normally shoots?

 

Are you saying I am one of them eh?   :p

 

Those 5100 and 5200 cameras are good.. 

 

I have 5000. It's a good camera. I have it since 2009.  Sometime next year, I plan to get an upgrade. Not sure what to get.

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Are you saying I am one of them eh?   :p

 

Those 5100 and 5200 cameras are good.. 

 

I have 5000. It's a good camera. I have it since 2009.  Sometime next year, I plan to get an upgrade. Not sure what to get.

Yeah I was talking about you. Lol...

Naw.

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<snipped> If they are going to buy this camera and forever leave it in Auto mode then for me, its been a bit of a waste of money.

 

<snipped>

I absolutely disagree.

 

I bought a FinePix F200EXR in late 2009, which was a mid-to-high end compact camera at the time and the photos taken in auto on my D3100 (which was released in late 2010) are much higher quality than that of the compact I had. That alone is worth the money.

 

Plus, single-point AF makes photos look fantastic if you use it correctly, even in auto, which is another plus of DSLRs over compacts.

 

Finally, little things like the flash are usually a little bigger and brighter on DSLRs.

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I absolutely disagree.

 

I bought a FinePix F200EXR in late 2009, which was a mid-to-high end compact camera at the time and the photos taken in auto on my D3100 (which was released in late 2010) are much higher quality than that of the compact I had. That alone is worth the money.

 

Plus, single-point AF makes photos look fantastic if you use it correctly, even in auto, which is another plus of DSLRs over compacts.

 

Finally, little things like the flash are usually a little bigger and brighter on DSLRs.

 

I agree with you, but you're taking my last sentance out of context that it was written.

 

There is nothing wrong with using Auto Mode, but too many people will buy a DSLR, stick it in auto and never touch another setting, they won't explore what can be achieved at all. So using Single Point AF wouldn't even be a concept they are aware of let alone played with.

Flashes - again if you want to spend the money (my above point on owning a DSLR can become expensive) that's fine, but the onboard flash (at least on my 5100) I personally feel is no better than any compact I've ever used.

 

This just comes down to what I said at the start of my post, what do they want this for? Whenever people see me with my Camera and start asking about how much would they need to spend to get a "good camera" it's the first question I ask them. There is no point in me telling them to spend the best part of ?500 on a camera, then say for a cheap Zoom lens that'll be another ?100 and more for a flash when more often than not, a ?150 coolpix would do them absolutely fine. 

 

It took me a long time to get the money together for my camera and I certainly couldn't afford to try and replace it etc so you need to be sure your friend isn't buying a camera because he thinks it will make his pictures "better". For me, if you want that you need to take the time to learn the manual modes to make full use of a camera like this.

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Get an APS-C or Micro Four Thirds mirrorless camera. If your friend has no interest in ever leaving auto mode, then carrying round a DSLR is a bad idea. Mirrorless cameras offer the same quality as DSLRs (they are, for all intents and purposes, a DSLR without a big mirror) at a greatly reduced physical size and weight.

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Get an APS-C or Micro Four Thirds mirrorless camera. If your friend has no interest in ever leaving auto mode, then carrying round a DSLR is a bad idea. Mirrorless cameras offer the same quality as DSLRs (they are, for all intents and purposes, a DSLR without a big mirror) at a greatly reduced physical size and weight.

 

No, they really don't. but they are adequate for most people with high requirement than a standard P&S or bridge. 

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No, they really don't. but they are adequate for most people with high requirement than a standard P&S or bridge. 

 

Erm, yes they do. I'm not sure what you're basing that on, but you're wrong.

 

These is literally NO difference between the image quality from an APS-C DSLR and a APS-C mirrorless camera. In fact, Sony provides Nikon with most of theirs sensors, and guess what, Sony also uses those sensors in their mirrorless camera range. Nikon's top-end D800 uses a Sony sensor, and Sony in turn use a slightly improved version in their A7R mirorless camera. Hell, Canons APS-C sensors are actually a bit smaller than everyone else's (and haven't improved much in a number of years), so an APS-C mirrorless camera will generally out-perform any of Canons APS-C cameras in terms of image quality.

 

People still buy DSLRs for the lenses (which is quickly becoming less of a reason, especially since its very easy to use adapters), for robustness (want 50 buttons, 2 headphones jacks, and 2 screens on your camera?) and arguably the autofocus. However image quality has never been one of the reasons.

 

Here's an article written by a professional photographer, someone who relies on their camera to do their job, about why they chose a mirorless camera over a DSLR: http://www.digitalcamerareview.com/default.asp?newsID=5479&news=migration+to+mirrorless+ditching+the+DSLR+Olympus+Sony+Fuji

 

To quote them directly:

 

Bottom Line: It doesn't matter. Mirrorless image quality is on par with DSLRs.

The mirrorless camera genre is the future. Large, bulky DSLRs are a dying breed. Will it happen overnight? I'm sure it won't. But I know that I will be showcasing my DSLRs next to my other antique cameras sooner than later!

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Yeah, except, you know Physics.

 

a mirrolress camera isn't on par with a DSLR for several reasons, primarily, lens size. smaller lens means less light, smaller sensor means smaller pixels, it's all about physics and photon sizes. a small mirrorless is good, but not as good as a DSLR, just like a 1.6 crop DSLR isn't as good as a full frame. 

 

on top of that, all those low f stop lenses for your mirrorless camera are listed with the wrong f. stop. since they do only half the math. that doesn't make them bad lenses, just wrongly advertized, a f2 lens on a mirrorless would have to actually be a f1.4 to be comparable to a f2 on a 1.6 crop camera. 

 

so yes, as I said, mirrorless cameras are good, for regular users who buy DSLR's for shooting family photos, a mirrorless is more than good enough. for a lot of regular photo shooting they are good enough as well. but no they're not as good as a DSLR, not a 1.6 crop and certainly not a full frame. Saying so shows both a lack of knowledge of photography and pysics. 

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This thread comes at the perfect time. I'm looking to replace an aging D70 (now deceased) and since I've not bought a camera since then, i'm a tad out of the loop. I'm basically looking for something comparable to the D70 but working (good start) and more up to date.

Will read through the suggestions later.

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This thread comes at the perfect time. I'm looking to replace an aging D70 (now deceased) and since I've not bought a camera since then, i'm a tad out of the loop. I'm basically looking for something comparable to the D70 but working (good start) and more up to date.

Will read through the suggestions later.

 

I think the modern day evolution of that would be the 7100

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I'm looking to buy a DSLR for the first time and I wasn't aware that there were quite so many variables when it comes to buying a DSLR. FF vs. APS-C, Canon vs. Nikon, all the models within Canon and Nikon's ranges, this lens vs. that lens, etc etc etc. 

 

Doesn't help that the two areas of photography I will be using the camera for the most are rather different...

 

Oh well. Whatever I buy, I'm sure I'll be happy with it :D 

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Yeah, except, you know Physics.

 

a mirrolress camera isn't on par with a DSLR for several reasons, primarily, lens size. smaller lens means less light, smaller sensor means smaller pixels, it's all about physics and photon sizes. a small mirrorless is good, but not as good as a DSLR, just like a 1.6 crop DSLR isn't as good as a full frame. 

 

on top of that, all those low f stop lenses for your mirrorless camera are listed with the wrong f. stop. since they do only half the math. that doesn't make them bad lenses, just wrongly advertized, a f2 lens on a mirrorless would have to actually be a f1.4 to be comparable to a f2 on a 1.6 crop camera. 

 

so yes, as I said, mirrorless cameras are good, for regular users who buy DSLR's for shooting family photos, a mirrorless is more than good enough. for a lot of regular photo shooting they are good enough as well. but no they're not as good as a DSLR, not a 1.6 crop and certainly not a full frame. Saying so shows both a lack of knowledge of photography and pysics. 

 

What the hell are you blabbering on about? Yes, I know Physics, quite well in fact, I also know digital imaging, also quite well, and have helped teach both the physics and software side to final year CS students.

 

Smaller lens? Yes, mirrorless cameras have smaller lenses, but not because they let in less light. The amount of light let in by a lens is given by the F-stop (which is the ratio of the size of lens' focal length to the size of the entrance pupil). There's also the T-stop, which is the actual amount of light which can pass through the lens, and is always larger than the F-Stop as light is lost due to less than perfect transmission efficiency. A 50mm f/1.4 lens on a APS-C camera is a 50mm f/1.4 lens, it doesn't matter if the camera is a mirrorless camera or a full-frame DSLR. When you talk about them "doing only half the math", what you really mean is the amount of light gathered by the sensor and nothing to do with the lens (ignoring the physical properties of the lens itself, and assuming the image circle is big enough to cover the sensor), and everything to do with the physical size of the sensor.

 

You seem to be confused by exactly what a "crop" camera is. A crop camera is generally regarded as any camera with a sensor size smaller than 35mm, be it mirrorless or SLR. Cameras have a crop factor which is the ratio of the sensor size in comparison to a full frame, 35mm sensor. An APS-C Mirorless camera has a crop factor of 1.5, a "crop" DSLR (which means it also has an APS-C sensor) has a crop factor of 1.5 also (unless it's a Canon, in which case the crop factor is 1.6). This means that the sensor are exactly the same size. Let me reiterate, THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SENSOR IN AN APS-C MIRRORLESS CAMERA AND THE SENSOR IN AN APS-C "CROP" DSLR. NONE, NO DIFFERENCE WHAT SO EVER - THEY ARE THE SAME.

 

Here is a comparison between the Sony A6000 (a mirrorless camera) and the Canon 70D, one of Canon high-end "crop" cameras: http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-A6000-versus-Canon-EOS-70D___942_895

Things to note:

  • The A6000 has higher scores in terms of image quality across all areas.
  • The A6000 actually has a larger sensor (15.6 x 23.5 vs 15.0 x 22.5) as Canon's ASP-C sensor are smaller than everyone else's. 

 

Now, why are lenses for mirorless cameras smaller than lenses for DSLRs? A lens for a mirrorless camera is smaller due to the reduced flange distance, a mirrorless lens doesn't need as much room to focus the image onto the sensor because the sensor is closer to the lens (because there's not a great big mirror in the way). Here's an image from Wikipedia showing 2 cameras, one with a mirror, and one without, otherwise they are identical:

 

Flange_Focal_Length_%282_types_camera%29

 

You'll notice that most Mirrorless lenses have the same diameter as lenses for crop cameras (Take a look at any of Nikon's DX (crop specific) lenses if you don't believe me), that's because they let in just as much light, and have to cover the same image circle. The length of the lenses however is much smaller, again, due to the reduced flange distance. Even lenses designed for full-frame Mirrorless cameras (such as Sony's A7 range) are a little bit smaller than their DSLR counterparts, and cover a full-frame 35mm sensor. 

 

If that doesn't convince you then I give up, continue being ignorant all you want.

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I do agree with you, however NOT all mirrorless have the same size sensor as APC, take Nikons J1 or Canon M for that matter, Olympus as well, Sony being the exception. Not sure on the others.

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To add to my previous post:

 

mirrorlesssensors.jpg

 

This is to 2012, obviously lacking is the Sony A7 and again, like I said before SONY BEING THE EXCEPTION. But this just proves both hawkman and James M, where both right and wrong.

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