us Plane diverted as passengers fight over seat reclining

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

Plane diverted as passengers fight over seat reclining

Man puts lock on seat to stop woman in front reclining it, leading to argument and both being kicked off United Airlines flight

 

A plane in the US had to be diverted and two passengers removed after one of them started a fight by using a banned device to stop the seat in front reclining.

 

The spat began on United Airlines flight 1462 because one passenger was using the Knee Defender, a $21.95 lock that attaches to a tray table and jams the reclining mechanism of the seat in front.

 

The male passenger, seated in a middle seat of row 12, used the device to stop the woman in front of him reclining while he was on his laptop, according to a law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity.

 

A flight attendant asked him to remove the device and he refused. The woman then stood up, turned around and threw a cup of water at him, the official said.

 

The dispute on the service from Newark to Denver escalated to the point that the airline decided to divert to Chicago?s O?Hare international airport, according to Transportation Security Administration spokesman Ross Feinstein.

 

Chicago police and TSA officers met the flight, spoke to the passengers ? a man and a woman, both 48 ? and ?deemed it a customer service issue?, Feinstein said. The TSA would not name the passengers.

 

The plane then continued to Denver without them, arriving an hour and 38 minutes late, according to the airline?s website.

 

Both passengers had been sitting in United?s ?economy plus? section, which advertises four more inches of legroom.

 

The Federal Aviation Administration leaves it up to individual airlines to set rules about the device. United Airlines says it prohibits its use, like all major US airlines. Spirit Airlines and Allegiant Air take the reclining mechanisms out of their seats, leaving them permanently upright.

 

The FAA can impose a civil fine of up to $25,000 for passengers who are unruly. In this case no arrest was made, according to airport spokesman Gregg Cunningham.

 

Source: The Guardian

[Dick Montage]

a banned device

 

FAA says otherwise:

 

"FAA spokesman Paul Takemoto said the clips were not against federal aviation rules as long as they weren't used during taxiing, takeoffs or landings."

Knee Defenders? are specifically designed to be used with your tray table lowered, while your tray table must be up and locked "during taxiing, takeoffs or landings."

So, as long as Knee Defenders? are being used as they are designed to be used in flight, their use does not violate any US aviation law, rule, or regulation.

 

Seeing as the woman threw water at him, she started this spat.

[FloatingFatMan]

^ Banned by the airline, not the FAA.  No one claims it's banned by the FAA.  Try reading the article.

 

The Federal Aviation Administration leaves it up to individual airlines to set rules about the device. United Airlines says it prohibits its use, like all major US airlines.

[MikeChipshop Member]

Ah FFS, what is the world coming too? If people can;t be courteous around each other then they should be told to walk every where.

[123456789A]

He should have locked the woman too.

[Chicane-UK Veteran]

They're both jerks - there's no other way to say it. At the end of the day, when you fly in Economy you accept you have no leg room and that the seat in front of you will most likely recline. If you don't like it, pay more for better seats, or book earlier into seats at the front of the plane. He was a jerk for stopping her from reclining her seat, and she was a jerk for throwing water on the guy.

[Dick Montage]

United Airlines says it prohibits its use, like all major US airlines.

 

Admittedly, I did miss that, and apologise.

 

However, banned by the airline?  The shove more and more rows in, restricting leg space, and expect people not to have issue?  All the while increasing costs!

 

I myself have longer legs, and the fact I cannot now sit properly whereas I could less than 10 years ago on a standard flight is ridiculous.

[DocM]

Some of us have no choice. I'm almost 6'2" (187+ cm) with size 15 shoes (EU 48, UK 14.5) & built like a football lineman, so I just cannot fly econo. Period. Stop. #nowayinhell

[Dick Montage]

That's the thing.  I used to be able to.  I have not grown.  They are adding more and more rows at the cost of comfort - yet charging more.  The fact that such a device exists highlights the problem.

[DocM]

Yes, it does. And if they cut rows the prices will go way up. Guaranteed. Sux.

Of course they are operating on razor thin margins, which doesn't help. CNN reports they're making about $5.42 per passenger for a margin of just 2.8%. The margin in agriculture is almost 10%. Tech is often over 25%.

[Daedroth]

The way I see it, he was interfering with the functionality of the seat mechanism. It is not his property to interfere with and should rightly be in the wrong.

 

Granted, the airlines may be cramming more seats in, but at the end of the day, it's your choice to fly in economy. If you don't like it, pay for better or simply put up with it during the flight.

[jakem1]

That's the thing.  I used to be able to.  I have not grown.  They are adding more and more rows at the cost of comfort - yet charging more.  The fact that such a device exists highlights the problem.

 

A reclined seat has no impact on leg room and that wasn't the guy's complaint.  He wanted to keep the seat upright so he could use his laptop comfortably.  The woman was entitled to recline her seat and he should have removed his lock when asked to.  He sounds like a very selfish individual.

[spenser.d]

A reclined seat has no impact on leg room and that wasn't the guy's complaint. He wanted to keep the seat upright so he could use his laptop comfortably. The woman was entitled to recline her seat and he should have removed his lock when asked to. He sounds like a very selfish individual.

When your knees are already touching the seat in front of you before its reclined it most certainly does.

 

Edit: not saying this guy was right. I think he's an *** for using that device, but reclining does reduce leg room for people with long legs. That's why I generally switch to an aisle seat when I check in if any are available. Or if I'm lucky, there'll be an emergency row exit seat open when I get to the airport and Delta will give it to me for free.

[Brian M. Veteran]

How would you feel if it was the other way around though? You've had a long day, are settling down for a long flight try to recline your seat a little bit and, oh wait, the guy behind you is forcibly stopping you.

She shouldn't have chucked a glass of water over him, I admit, but she had paid to be on the same flight as him, and has the right to recline her chair. If he wanted more leg room than is provided in economy/prem economy, then he should have paid for business class.

As for banning the devices, I'm glad they are. I'd flip out if someone behind me was preventing me from reclining my chair during a long flight (I've really never had an issue with people reclining chairs on flights, since on most long haul economy flights I've taken, for the bulk of the flight everyone has theirs reclined, so it kind of evens out).

[ATLien_0]

If he wanted the leg room and a seat in front of him that didn't recline, he could have easily asked to switch to an exit seat. No fare difference on those, have seen people ask for this many times

[jakem1]

When your knees are already touching the seat in front of you before its reclined it most certainly does.

 

Edit: not saying this guy was right. I think he's an *** for using that device, but reclining does reduce leg room for people with long legs. That's why I generally switch to an aisle seat when I check in if any are available. Or if I'm lucky, there'll be an emergency row exit seat open when I get to the airport and Delta will give it to me for free.

 

I fly quite a bit and I'm 6'1 and I've never been on a flight where my knees touch the back of the seat in front of me.  For the tiny number of people that may be significantly taller and might have this problem the solution is simple - stretch your legs out under the seat in front of you.

 

If a seat is designed to recline then the passenger sitting in it is entitled to recline it so long as the plane's not taking off\landing or meals aren't being served.  You might not like it (and sometimes I wish the person in front of me hadn't reclined) but it doesn't give you the right to prevent someone reclining, especially if you've been told not to by airline staff.

[+E.Worm Jimmy Subscriber¹]

I would have being mad too.      i am so tall (6'6 - 2meters), that seating without recline is physically extremely uncomfortable for me.  it is ok for take off and landing, but anything over 30 minutes and my back starts to hurt.

 

 

i bet if it was me sitting in front of him, he would have took it off quicker!   he was most likely being brave against a woman.

A reclined seat has no impact on leg room and that wasn't the guy's complaint.  He wanted to keep the seat upright so he could use his laptop comfortably.  The woman was entitled to recline her seat and he should have removed his lock when asked to.  He sounds like a very selfish individual.

 

for sure.   

 

i know about leg room, but if the person in front of me reclines, it is just a bit more crammed and uncomfortable in general...  not a huge deal.    not being able to recline is much bigger deal for a person my size.

[TAZMINATOR]

If he wanted the leg room and a seat in front of him that didn't recline, he could have easily asked to switch to an exit seat. No fare difference on those, have seen people ask for this many times

 

Yes I have as well..

 

And, my brother and I got the tickets but not in same row....  my brother sat near the front of the plane... I sat in the middle where the wings are.  After taking off into the air, I moved to the front and sat with my brother... no problem. We talked for hours during the trip... instead of sitting alone apart.

[jerzdawg]

He must not have given her the card... 

[+E.Worm Jimmy Subscriber¹]

He must not have given her the card... 

 

 

if anyone gave me this card, i will tell them to politely shove it in their backside.

 

airline rules forbid such devices.   i am not going to be discomforted just because some donkey-hole is sitting behind me. 

[FloatingFatMan]

Some of us have no choice. I'm almost 6'2" (187+ cm) with size 15 shoes (EU 48, UK 14.5) & built like a football lineman, so I just cannot fly econo. Period. Stop. #nowayinhell

 

I've given up trying to fly now because of the stupid cramped conditions.  I had a DVT a couple of years ago, so I really can NOT be cramped in a plane, and given my size, that's just not possible in economy class.

 

Also, what's your middle name, Doc? Sasquatch? :p

[ATLien_0]

if anyone gave me this card, i will tell them to politely shove it in their backside.

 

airline rules forbid such devices.   i am not going to be discomforted just because some donkey-hole is sitting behind me. 

Exactly, 

While I sympathize for anyone who doesn't have enough leg room and while yes the airlines could increase the spacing like on international flights, installing one of those devices is a bit selfish. If you want more leg room ask to switch to an exit seat or upgrade to business class. Its not the persons fault in front of you, and maybe just maybe if he had asked prior she might have been nicer. 

[Mr. Gibs]

That's the thing.  I used to be able to.  I have not grown.  They are adding more and more rows at the cost of comfort - yet charging more.  The fact that such a device exists highlights the problem.

They aren't charging more...

Airplane tickets are at their lowest prices ever right now. Even if you take into account things like baggage fees, cost of a meal, various other taxes and fees the tickets are STILL cheaper than they were in the 90s. All while airline costs have been increasing. It's not like planes or fuel are any cheaper nowadays.

People want the cheapest ticket possible, so something has to give.

[TAZMINATOR]

if anyone gave me this card, i will tell them to politely shove it in their backside.

 

airline rules forbid such devices.   i am not going to be discomforted just because some donkey-hole is sitting behind me. 

 

There you go. 

 

I am not going to be discomfort... if he/she has problem, move to other empty seat somewhere.  If he/she has family, then not my problem and tell her/him to switch the seats with the family.

 

I usually tell them a joke about chainsaw.... for example: when the person say my legs are too long, I say no problem, I can get the chainsaw to cut them shorter. Want me to get it?   :p

[t_r_nelson]

As stated by others, reclining the seat does nothing for leg room since the pivot point is the same place as your hips.  It may give you the illusion of more space but it really does nothing.  It doesn't recline enough to really accomplish anything.  I've flown both long and short flights in rows that don't recline.  The only way to have leg room is to stretch out beneath the seat in front of you.

 

The solution is to get rid of the reclining seats.  They could make them static which would be lighter, cheaper and easier to produce.  

 

I really consider it rude to put your seat back with someone directly behind you.  People here are already complaining about the tight seat arrangement and still you're ready to make that worse for someone else by cranking your seat back into their space?  That's pretty selfish.