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#1 ctebah

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 02:50

Would the release of 10-year-old detainee abuse photographs, such as one depicting US soldiers pointing a broom handle at a hooded detainee's rectum, incite terrorist organizations and threaten national security?

That's a question government attorneys will have to answer next week when they explain to a federal court judge why as many as 2,100 unclassified photos of US soldiers abusing Iraqi and Afghan captives should continue to be concealed from the public.

The Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) case, which resurfaced last week, is part of the American Civil Liberties Union's (ACLU) long-running lawsuit against the US government to obtain documents about the treatment of detainees in custody of the CIA and military.


https://news.vice.co...urce=vicenewsfb

Not sure how photos depicting torture can be a danger to American citizens but these certainly need to be released. People need to know how the US treats it's citizens while spreading it's version of Democracy around the world.


#2 DocM

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 06:04

That photo shows what, 7-8 guys doing something? So, painting with a mile wide brush, you're going to portray all US forces with the torture label when only a few did anything.

That's as bad as blaming all Muslims for 9/11. Get a grip.

#3 +Jack Unterweger

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 08:52

it is always a problem of soldiers (no matter if us, europe or from somewhere else) are overworked, exhausted not to mention the ugly things they see at war, go crazy. this is not rationale anymore.

shrinking the army will only increase this problem and ofc. will ultimately leave a bad image to the us armed forces they don't really deserve for what classy job they are usually doing.



#4 DocM

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 12:13

I suggest folks look up the 1971 Stanford prison experiment. This kind of abuse happens everywhere, in every prisoner situation, when the direct supervising officers don't take actions to mitigate it. Not just a US thing.

http://en.m.wikipedi...ison_experiment

#5 +techbeck

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 12:19

That photo shows what, 7-8 guys doing something? So, painting with a mile wide brush, you're going to portray all US forces with the torture label when only a few did anything.

That's as bad as blaming all Muslims for 9/11. Get a grip.

 

Did you know that?  Also, all Germans are Nazi's and all Muslims are terrorists...../s

 

Anyway, these photos are 10 years old.  I am sure things like this still go on but those abuse issues have been taken care of and people responsible, held accountable for it. 



#6 +techbeck

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 12:30

it is always a problem of soldiers (no matter if us, europe or from somewhere else) are overworked, exhausted not to mention the ugly things they see at war, go crazy. this is not rationale anymore.

shrinking the army will only increase this problem and ofc. will ultimately leave a bad image to the us armed forces they don't really deserve for what classy job they are usually doing.

 

Some of those things contribute to some of the problems.  But there are just mean people out there that are just looking to cause problems and make trouble.  For some, its just their nature to act like that.



#7 OP ctebah

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 12:55

Not sure what's worse, US soldiers mistreating and abusing captives or people actually trying to justify it.  People that torture and treat prisoners in this form should be labeled as terrorists. 


That photo shows what, 7-8 guys doing something? So, painting with a mile wide brush, you're going to portray all US forces with the torture label when only a few did anything.

That's as bad as blaming all Muslims for 9/11. Get a grip.

 

A few doesn't equate to over 2000 pictures.  Get a grip is right.



#8 +techbeck

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 12:59

Not sure what's worse, US soldiers mistreating and abusing captives or people actually trying to justify it.  People that torture and treat prisoners in this form should be labeled as terrorists. 


 

 

Not justifying it. He was just making a statement saying this kind of thing happens everywhere and is not only US related.  Justifying it would be saying, well they killed and miss treated our poeple and deserve the same.  Miss treatment of prisoners is never a good thing and countries claiming on doing good work and aiding others should not stoop to the level of others.



#9 OP ctebah

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 13:02

Not justifying it.  This kind of thing happens everywhere and is not only US related.  Justifying it would be saying, well they killed and miss treated our poeple and deserve the same.  Miss treatment of prisoners is never a good thing and countries claiming on doing good work and aiding others should not stoop to the level of others.

 

Sorry but you're 100% off there.  Saying that you're NOT justifying it, then going and saying that it happens all over the place IS justifying it.  Justification asks for reason, any reason, and you just provided it.



#10 +techbeck

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 13:07

Sorry but you're 100% off there.  Saying that you're NOT justifying it, then going and saying that it happens all over the place IS justifying it.  Justification asks for reason, any reason, and you just provided it.

 

Just the way things are interpreted.  With all the anti American and anti US crap going on around here, I can how it would be easy to take it as a justification.  But to me, it is just a statement since many will go in to a thread, read the title, and think only a specific country/person/whatever is to blame.



#11 DocM

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 13:08

"A few doesn't equate to over 2000 pictures. "

The image shown looks like a frame grab off a video. 5 incidents, each with a few minutes of 30 fps video, produces 45,000 unique frames. Cherry picked down and 2,000 is quite reasonable.

#12 OP ctebah

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 13:12

Just the way things are interpreted.  With all the anti American and anti US crap going on around here, I can how it would be easy to take it as a justification.  But to me, it is just a statement since many will go in to a thread, read the title, and think only a specific country/person/whatever is to blame.

 

Show me another country that has Guantanamo Bay.  I don't ever remember being so many cases like this when it comes to other Western Governments.  I don't remember hearing about UK or German or French soldiers killing entire families in Middle East.  You're right, it does happen all over the world, but nowhere near the level the US soldiers do it.


"A few doesn't equate to over 2000 pictures. "

The image shown looks like a frame grab off a video. 5 incidents, each with a few minutes of 30 fps video, produces 45,000 unique frames. Cherry picked down and 2,000 is quite reasonable.

 

Or, you can actually read the article?

 

 

The documents state that the photographs were from 203 closed criminal investigations into detainee abuse in Afghanistan and Iraq.



#13 +techbeck

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 13:21

 You're right, it does happen all over the world, but nowhere near the level the US soldiers do it.

 

Torture happens everywhere as well as mistreatment of prisoners.  To say the US soldier are the worse, well provide proof or else you are just making a statement with nothing to back it up.  Its not right, I wish it wasn't so, and more often than not, the people responsible are held responsible.

 

And that is really all i have to say as I am sure you will have something else to refute what I said and I will reply, you will reply, I will reply again...and so on.  Nothing will get solved.   I said my piece and really dont want to go in to another America is guilty of this/that or the worse...chat.



#14 DocM

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 13:22

Show me another country that has Guantanamo Bay. I don't ever remember being so many cases like this when it comes to other Western Governments. I don't remember hearing about UK or German or French soldiers killing entire families in Middle East. You're right, it does happen all over the world, but nowhere near the level the US soldiers do it.
>
Or, you can actually read the article?


Collateral damage is part of war, and we do try to minimize it by moving to smaller weapons. Got no.is a POW and suspected war criminal camp. They happen in every war.

That would be 203 individuals involved, since that's how things are prosecuted. This doesn't translate into 203 incidents if each incident had multiple participants as in the image shown.

If there were 8+ in each incident that comes out to 20+ incidents over how many years and troop rotations?

And we don't know how many were prosecuted. Someone could have walked into frame and broken it up, but still show in the image and be interpreted as a perpetrator by types like you.

#15 OP ctebah

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 13:28

Torture happens everywhere as well as mistreatment of prisoners.  To say the US soldier are the worse, well provide proof or else you are just making a statement with nothing to back it up.  Its not right, I wish it wasn't so, and more often than not, the people responsible are held responsible.

 

And that is really all i have to say as I am sure you will have something else to refute what I said and I will reply, you will reply, I will reply again...and so on.  Nothing will get solved.   I said my piece and really dont want to go in to another America is guilty of this/that or the worse...chat.

 

What do you think I've been doing in this thread?  Guantanamo bay and this investigation, on top of other investigations are just the tip of the iceberg.  The lack of such investigations in other countries is all the proof you need.  The only other country whose soldiers commit more war crimes is Israel.


That would be 203 individuals involved, since that's how things are prosecuted. This doesn't translate into 203 incidents if each incident had multiple participants as in the image shown.

If there were 8+ in each incident that comes out to 20+ incidents over how many years and troop rotations?

And we don't know how many were prosecuted. Someone could have walked into frame and broken it up, but still show in the image and be interpreted as a perpetrator by types like you.

 

No, that's 203 investigations, not individuals.  The number of individuals could be much higher.  You can keep trying to justify it all you want, you're failing miserably.