FBI tells Apple, Google their privacy efforts could hamstring investigations

[techbeck]

Apple and Google have won praise from privacy proponents for efforts to encrypt their latest smartphones in a way that would prevent law enforcement from accessing certain private data. The FBI, not so much.

 

Federal Bureau of Investigation Director James Comey told reporters Thursday that the agency is talking to both companies to raise concerns that their privacy efforts could hinder criminal investigations.

 

Apple last week touted that with release of its latest operating system iOS8, it no longer could bypass the smartphone user password.

 

"So it's not technically feasible for us to respond to government warrants for the extraction of this data from devices in their possession running iOS 8," Apple said in a blog post.

 

Google quickly followed suit, saying it already had such technology in phones running its Android operating system, but that "as part of our next Android release, encryption will be enabled by default out of the box, so you won't even have to think about turning it on."

 

Comey said that he was "very concerned" that the companies were "marketing something expressly to allow people to place themselves above the law."

 

More...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/politics/fbi-apple-google-privacy/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

[macoman]

I kind agreed with the FBI, they should have some kind of method to decrypt the disk. You would think that Apple and Google may have a plan B on place in case Law enforcement request a device encrypted.

[neufuse Veteran]

it's not really marketing to put someone above the law, but pushing for data security... problem is FBI wasn't easy access to data and to do little work to get it, which is the same as data thief's... only way to stop one is to hinder the other... it's a side effect of trying to protect your data.. honestly, I think all portable devices should be encrypted out of the box... if it's easy to steal, you should protect it somehow

[LimeMaster]

They should only be allowed access to data from America. And even at that, I think they should have to request access to it from the company rather than decrypting it themselves.

[+Warwagon MVC]

I kind agreed with the FBI, they should have some kind of method to decrypt the disk. You would think that Apple and Google may have a plan B on place in case Law enforcement request a device encrypted.

You agree? So you are saying if the FBI comes knocking google and apple should be able to let them into my encrypted device?

[Brandon H Supervisor]

this issue really is a double edged sword. people want security but fbi and such want access at will. you can't please one without hurting the other

[freak180]

 Yeah because the FBI do no wrong  :rolleyes:

[speed3okie]

Sorry FBI, get a warrant just like everyone else! 

[neufuse Veteran]

Wonder what would do if I had a random dump of RAW binary data on a disk and they seized it, would they just assume it's encrypted and try to force me to give up my non-existent password?

[Buttus]

I kind agreed with the FBI, they should have some kind of method to decrypt the disk. You would think that Apple and Google may have a plan B on place in case Law enforcement request a device encrypted.

 

the only problem is, if you give the FBI (or anyone) a key, someone else will find a way to use it.   which ruins the whole idea of privacy

[Brandon H Supervisor]

the only problem is, if you give the FBI (or anyone) a key, someone else will find a way to use it.   which ruins the whole idea of privacy

exactly, hence my point of the situation being a double edged sword

[FloatingFatMan]

The FBI can go <bleep!> themselves for all I care.  Innocent until proven guilty, thanks. You have a basic human right to privacy, and they DON'T have a right to access your private information.

[neufuse Veteran]

The FBI can go <bleep!> themselves for all I care.  Innocent until proven guilty, thanks. You have a basic human right to privacy, and they DON'T have a right to access your private information.

but that was the basis of the question I asked above, because they have pushed for guilty until you prove innocent with encryption. If you have random data that isn't legiable to them they assume it's encryption and force via court you to give up your password or hold you in contempt of court if you don't and get jail time... if there is no password how would this even work...

[techbeck]

I find searching email the same as searching your house, car, place of business....as long as you have a warrant, then there should be no issue.  And any company claiming they cannot access your data that they host/create the access to....I call BS.

[FloatingFatMan]

but that was the basis of the question I asked above, because they have pushed for guilty until you prove innocent with encryption. If you have random data that isn't legiable to them they assume it's encryption and force via court you to give up your password or hold you in contempt of court if you don't and get jail time... if there is no password how would this even work...

 

There is still a password or some kind; there has to be otherwise how do you access your own data?

 

Once a court order/warrant is issued, then they have a right to access your data, so withholding it after that rightly gets you into trouble. They just want to be able to access it without going through the legal process.

[neufuse Veteran]

There is still a password or some kind; there has to be otherwise how do you access your own data?

 

Once a court order/warrant is issued, then they have a right to access your data, so withholding it after that rightly gets you into trouble. They just want to be able to access it without going through the legal process.

no no, I'm talking about if you don't have something encrypted and just random data and they assume it's encrypted... I could write a random binary writer to just dump BS binary data across the drive, you don't know if it's encrypted or not.. what I am asking is how can they force you to give something up if they think something is encrypted, even if it is not... which has been the case a few times now people have went to jail over refusal or saying there isn't a password to "random" data they claim, which something can be random data it is possible if you write random binary... not that it is common, just a hypothetical

[macoman]

You agree? So you are saying if the FBI comes knocking google and apple should be able to let them into my encrypted device?

If you committed a crime in any way and they think you are a suspect. I don't see why you device should be keeping encrypted, if you do the crime you should do the time.

[FloatingFatMan]

no no, I'm talking about if you don't have something encrypted and just random data and they assume it's encrypted... I could write a random binary writer to just dump BS binary data across the drive, you don't know if it's encrypted or not.. what I am asking is how can they force you to give something up if they think something is encrypted, even if it is not... which has been the case a few times now people have went to jail over refusal or saying there isn't a password to "random" data they claim, which something can be random data it is possible if you write random binary... not that it is common, just a hypothetical

 

Well, that could happen now, so nothing's really any different, is it?

If you committed a crime in any way and they think you are a suspect. I don't see why you device should be keeping encrypted, if you do the crime you should do the time.

 

As long as they follow due process and have a warrant, that is.  No warrant, no right to access.

[+Warwagon MVC]

If you committed a crime in any way and they think you are a suspect. I don't see why you device should be keeping encrypted, if you do the crime you should do the time.

 

I still like TNO : Trust No One.

 

I would prefer no one has the keys.

[Ian W]

Once a court order/warrant is issued, then they have a right to access your data, so withholding it after that rightly gets you into trouble. They just want to be able to access it without going through the legal process.

The FBI seems to be less interested in unlawful intrusion and more interested about how the technology will hinder efforts to access protected information after a warrant has already been obtained. This concern is made apparent by Apple's statement that "Unlike our competitors, Apple cannot bypass your passcode and therefore cannot access this data. So it's not technically feasible for us to respond to government warrants for the extraction of this data from devices in their possession running iOS 8."

 

I still like TNO : Trust No One.

 

I would prefer no one has the keys.

I will take this opportunity to write that this is what I had referred to a while back with the Trusted Platform Module. The private portion of the TPM's Endorsement Key is not exposed to outside entities, not even to the lawful posessor of the device on which the TPM is installed, which means that not even the owner is trusted by the hardware. This is the same reason that I am fond of Microsoft's patent for a digital rights management operating system.

[simonlang]

for me the case is clear. while i rate privacy rigths very high i think no one should deny the fact that the internet is basically an invention from the us military complex and therefore also belongs to them. there is a reason why china and russia want to run "their" internet, so they can become independant and do their own spying. i say: good luck with it.

for the others: deal with it. from my personal experience nsa/fbi/cia are really only fighting for the good and they don't care about an illegal copy here and there however very sensitive - and rightfully so - against child pornography.

[+Red King Subscriber²]

The only person who should be able to decrypt data is the person owning the data.

Companies must not have decryption access to digital data that is not owned by them.

HDDs, Email, Cloud, etc.

[macoman]

The only person who should be able to decrypt data is the person owning the data.

Companies must not have decryption access to digital data that is not owned by them.

HDDs, Email, Cloud, etc.

Like I said before, if you are a criminal doing illegal things in your computer I totally disagree with your statement. I agreed that if you are a suspect, there should be a warrant to search and decrypt your HDD or your cloud drive. Nothing should be yours, one you created a cloud or email account, it should be under the policy and privacy of the company, not you.