Dissapointed in the Windows 10 Tech preview so far

[PGHammer]

What did and does your response have anything to do with my statements  ( unless you were responding to  the part of the upgrade of an upgrade that was upgraded and are relating your own experiences.)? I was just responding to the point of the question --  Why would people want to install an upgrade and was providing some answers.  That and also telling the person that those machines are out there where people might change a part here and there but then upgrade and then upgrade that upgrade.  

I

have ran into issues where for example some programs fail to run after an upgrade.  And it is because of this testing that "patches" or compatibly modes are created.  

 

The statement was that one would want developers to also test their product on upgrades to see if there are potential problems. I have also ran into the issue that some programs will fail to uninstall after an upgrade and then will not install again.  Most of those problems can trace back to the installer latching onto the previous other OS configuration instead of creating a new one.  Which developer testing of these on upgrade platforms shows and then they change the installer to rectify this problem.  

I was responding to upgrade pathing - both software AND hardware - and why such testing - both ends - is necessary.

 

I was, in fact, agreeing with the need for both sorts of testing - not just software, but hardware as well.

 

There is some software that will survive an upgrade (from a previous OS) intact, while failing in a clean install on the newer OS - and software that will fail if the reverse is true.  Both software situations need to be tested for, because both are known to happen.  (In fact, both happened merely with Windows 7.)

[PGHammer]

I work as a defense contractor doing programming and my office is arranged into cubes (my particular room has 6 cubes in it but there are much larger rooms with more cubes as well) as is most of the offices on the base.  It is NOT a call center however and no one wears headsets of any kind.  Heck phones are hardly even used with most work communication being done via email.  Having everyone talking to their computers, even if the computer understands everything absolutely perfectly and only listens to the correct person would be a huge problem in most of the offices here because of the annoyance of the constant chatter for the other workers, again even if the computers had no problem breaking it down.  I'm not saying voice recognition isn't going to advance or doesn't have a place but anyone who thinks it's going to ENTIRELY REPLACE the keyboard and mouse is mistaken.  I can't even imagine how annoying it would be on the metro if everyone on a packed train was talking to their devices at the same time.  Now most people have their heads down texting and are at least quiet even if you do have the odd unnecessarily loud speaking person having a phone conversation (then getting annoyed people are listening to their conversation as they yell it through the public metro)

Even if they are going to update it that is a consumer application and wouldn't be shown until the consumer preview early next year, not this current tech preview.

Asmodai, defense contractors - or even secure spaces in OR out of contracting - is very much a heavily-regulated environment - as a former Navy civilian employee, and later, an employee of a military contractor,  I was required to know the regulations over what was permissible, and what wasn't.  (That was why I was both horrified AND angered over both the Johnathan Pollard AND Bradley Manning incidents - both were extremely flagrant violations of security regulations - not just by the installations themselves, but by the folks responsible for the spaces.)  What is not permissible for some spaces makes sense for others.

 

And therein lies the REAL issue - some folks think what is "best" for them is the "best" for everyone.  I won't say that, or even THINK that - despite how many times I am asked for advice or even my opinion.  Any choice can have an impact - positive OR negative.  All too often - especially in a highly-regulated space - what makes the most sense (in terms of least-impact upon the workplace environment) may not be permissible due to regulations.  Certain sorts of modern computers - let alone smartphones - are STILL roadblocked from being brought INTO certain spaces - merely because of what they are capable of - and it's not military or contractor spaces alone.

 

However, not everyone needs such a restrictive environment - in fact, in some cases, such an environment is counterproductive.  (In fact, it is still up for debate in DOE laboratories such as Lawrence Livermore, Argonne, or even Los Alamos and Oak Ridge.)

[nosense]

hairbautt, on 06 Oct 2014 - 23:15, said:hairbautt, on 06 Oct 2014 - 23:15, said:hairbautt, on 06 Oct 2014 - 23:15, said:

Is Windows Media Player still version 12? lol...

 

IMO i think music\video metro app is going to replace WMP. I don't mind WMP12 it looks and works fine for me(skinned).

 

[+Asmodai MVC]

What is not permissible for some spaces makes sense for others.

I gave my work as just one example where touch/voice will NOT replace keyboard/mouse to refute those who claim touch/voice will eventually replace keyboard/mouse EVERYWHERE. I did NOT say touch/voice cannot replace mouse/keyboard anywhere and in fact made a point of saying touch/voice has it's place. You responded to my post specifically with the call center headset/PBX reply as if trying to disprove my assertion. If that's not what you were doing I'm not sure why you replied to my particular post with an example of a situation where voice/touch COULD replace mouse/keyboard. Giving a single example (or even 100) of where voice/touch can replace keyboard/mouse doesn't disprove my point since I stated it DOES have it's place, you just gave an example of where it's place is.

You got way too hung up on the defense contractor thing, I don't work in a secure environment and DoD policies wasn't the point. A lot of non-government companies have similar office setups even without restrictive regulations. You seemed to equate everyone who works in a cube environment with call center people in your PBX post and that's simply not the case. Just because you can give an example of a cube setup where your PBX voice system will work great doesn't mean it will work for everyone.

And therein lies the REAL issue - some folks think what is "best" for them is the "best" for everyone. I won't say that, or even THINK that - despite how many times I am asked for advice or even my opinion.

It sure does look like that's what you're saying to me. I said voice/touch won't replace keyboard/mouse EVERYWHERE (though it does have it's place) and gave an example of my particular cube environment where it won't (I could have used a number of other examples but I only need to show ONE where it doesn't to prove that they ALL won't switch.) You replied stating that "cubists" (as if all cube environments are the same) can replace keyboard/mouse with voice/touch and gave an example of how SOME could (using headsets/PBX) as if just because it might be "best" for someone in the environment you describe it would be "best" for everyone.

[Noir Angel]

Javik, that is basically a complete reversion back to 7 - which even most of the critics of 8 or the Technical Preview admit was not exactly optimal for even keyboard+mouse users, let alone users of anything else.

 

Could the reason for that was that what was possible with Windows 7 could not even have caught up to 7's hardware base?

 

One thing I have been trying to point out is that Windows 8, Windows 8.1, and even the Technical Preview take better advantage of the EXISTING hardware of 7 (and in some cases, even Vista) than the operating systems released on that hardware did.  That is the REAL embarrassment (or at least should be for most of the critics of 8 and later).

 

I included my then-desktop in the Developer Preview testing pool (despite its age) for straightforward compatibility and usability testing - I roped in the notebook (Technical Preview) for the same reason - and it's even older.  I noticed the spread between the OS and the hardware base merely with Windows 7 - if anything, Windows 8 and later have made that same gap even more obvious - and that is on not merely 7-era hardware, but even VISTA-era hardware.

 

Apparently, we - as users, mind you - have been literally driving (our PCs) with "training wheels" - why are we still insisting on doing so?

 

Is taking greater advantage of our hardware capabilities THAT scary and frightening?

 

Christ, you sound like a PR spinster. The start screen does not take advantage of our hardware capabilities any more than the old style start menu did, in fact I find it nauseatingly annoying to use. I don't know why I have to keep re iterating this point, but I really couldn't give a crap what works for tablets because I don't use Windows on tablets.

[Ian W]

How about scrolling across the Start Screen? How hard is that? Well use the mouse wheel up and down and you can very quickly go from the beginning to the end with precision to get to where your app is located.

The Start screen also allows the user to position his or her mouse cursor toward side of the screen and move the cursor in a horizontal direction to navigate through pinned applications.

[DConnell Member]

That was kinda my point, thanks

 

There is no need to take a black and white view of touch versus keyboard, they both have their places and uses... but desktop computing isn't exactly touches' strong point.

 

 What are you basing that statement on exactly? Touch interactions for a stationary computer are still relatively new. I'd say its too soon to tell. I've found occasions where I prefer to use touch over the mouse, even on the desktop side of 8/RT. It isn't that useful on its own, but the same is true of a mouse - try doing useful work with just a mouse - no keyboard. Touch on a stationary machine is not intended to work in a vacuum, but alongside the keyboard and mouse, just like the mouse works with the keyboard. It isn't the one-or-the-other scenario that many 8/Modern/touch opponents claim.

 

I don't see where there's any problems with using touch with a desktop. I use my Surface very much like a laptop, with the type cover and a mouse connected, and use touch right along with mouse and keyboard. If I could afford a touchscreen for my tower I'd get one, since the touch interaction is a very useful addition when I use my Surface in laptop configuration.

 

Yes, I can do stuff with the mouse just fine, but sometimes its easier to interact directly with the screen. And sometimes the mouse makes more sense than the screen does. Its just another option, and just because it hasn't been prevalent on stationary machines until now, that doesn't mean it can't be useful. I see no reason to not support the new alongside the traditional.

[hairbawl87]

Even if they are going to update it that is a consumer application and wouldn't be shown until the consumer preview early next year, not this current tech preview.

I hope you're right. I wouldn't mind a refresh.

 

IMO i think music\video metro app is going to replace WMP. I don't mind WMP12 it looks and works fine for me(skinned).

Awesome skin, where'd you get it? Also, I use WMP for my media library and I use it to sync with my smartphone. I don't think the metro app will sync will devices last I tried.

[nosense]

hairbautt, on 07 Oct 2014 - 13:21, said:hairbautt, on 07 Oct 2014 - 13:21, said:

I hope you're right. I wouldn't mind a refresh.

 

Awesome skin, where'd you get it? Also, I use WMP for my media library and I use it to sync with my smartphone. I don't think the metro app will sync will devices last I tried.

http://www.deviantart.com/art/WMP-Zune-8-White-for-Windows-8-8-1-Updated-372592338

 

I use WMP create a playlist for windows music app and my phone music playlist. Still no drag on drop support for desktop to music app.

[PGHammer]

I gave my work as just one example where touch/voice will NOT replace keyboard/mouse to refute those who claim touch/voice will eventually replace keyboard/mouse EVERYWHERE. I did NOT say touch/voice cannot replace mouse/keyboard anywhere and in fact made a point of saying touch/voice has it's place. You responded to my post specifically with the call center headset/PBX reply as if trying to disprove my assertion. If that's not what you were doing I'm not sure why you replied to my particular post with an example of a situation where voice/touch COULD replace mouse/keyboard. Giving a single example (or even 100) of where voice/touch can replace keyboard/mouse doesn't disprove my point since I stated it DOES have it's place, you just gave an example of where it's place is.

You got way too hung up on the defense contractor thing, I don't work in a secure environment and DoD policies wasn't the point. A lot of non-government companies have similar office setups even without restrictive regulations. You seemed to equate everyone who works in a cube environment with call center people in your PBX post and that's simply not the case. Just because you can give an example of a cube setup where your PBX voice system will work great doesn't mean it will work for everyone.

It sure does look like that's what you're saying to me. I said voice/touch won't replace keyboard/mouse EVERYWHERE (though it does have it's place) and gave an example of my particular cube environment where it won't (I could have used a number of other examples but I only need to show ONE where it doesn't to prove that they ALL won't switch.) You replied stating that "cubists" (as if all cube environments are the same) can replace keyboard/mouse with voice/touch and gave an example of how SOME could (using headsets/PBX) as if just because it might be "best" for someone in the environment you describe it would be "best" for everyone.

I simply used it as an obvious example of a highly-restricted space - an example I am decidedly familiar with from having worked in one.  In DoD (any of the armed services, and most of their contractors), the restrictions are legal and regulatory in nature - the same applies to financial institutions, or even medical records (HIPAA being the overriding regulation there).  In some cases, it is - as I pointed out in another observation - the work environment.  However, in cases where neither obtains, work environments - merely for Windows users - run the gamut.  Yes - you need to be able to lock the OS down where required - for whatever reason.  However, it is not always required.

[fix-this!]

i dont come here much anymore but i installed the preview last night. so far its an improvment over w8. the only issues ive found is bad windows redraw when moving them around. probably caused by my nvidia drivers. as for the OS itself id like to see the pullup lockscreen removed, its pointless.

[George P Global Moderator]

i dont come here much anymore but i installed the preview last night. so far its an improvment over w8. the only issues ive found is bad windows redraw when moving them around. probably caused by my nvidia drivers. as for the OS itself id like to see the pullup lockscreen removed, its pointless.

 

I don't think it's pointless, even on a desktop, if you do lock your computer when you leave it, and if you don't then it doesn't matter anyways.  It's more useful information wise than just seeing the login screen when you lock it.

[Dot Matrix]

I love the lock screen. With the right picture, it's quite attractive.

[DConnell Member]

I don't think it's pointless, even on a desktop, if you do lock your computer when you leave it, and if you don't then it doesn't matter anyways.  It's more useful information wise than just seeing the login screen when you lock it.

 

I agree completely. And I change the lockscreen when I change my password - the lockscreen is my password reminder!

[PGHammer]

Christ, you sound like a PR spinster. The start screen does not take advantage of our hardware capabilities any more than the old style start menu did, in fact I find it nauseatingly annoying to use. I don't know why I have to keep re iterating this point, but I really couldn't give a crap what works for tablets because I don't use Windows on tablets.

Javik - my desktop is not a tablet; neither is my notebook.  Neither support touch at all.  Nowhere in my posts have I even referred to touch - because it's irrelevant, because my hardware does not support it!

 

Only you are using a supposed "touch bias" in your arguments.

 

I am referring - in the entirety - to OTHER features that my desktop (and moreso my NOTEBOOK) support that no OS (not 7, or 8, or even 8.1 update 1) supported in the core OS.  (In the case of my notebook, I am referring to the built-in fingerprint reader - note that said notebook originally shipped with Vista.  The fingerprint reader was there for additional security; however, it required third-party software (in Vista, and 7, and even all versions of 8) to be usable.  With the Technical Preview, it's supported out of the box, and now it's usable by the operating system out of the box.  It's not touch - however, it's certainly a usable hardware feature.

 

Further, why would a feature supporting touch necessarily be touch-exclusive?  Those overlarge landing points that touch-support requires (for the rather sane reasoning that fingertips can be larger than the 150 percent blown up extra-large mouse pointers standard with XP and later) are indeed useful for those with mouse-dexterity issues - that LOTS of people have.  Not everyone uses aiming-assists (which go back to Wacom and digitizers) or can even afford them.  Yet you would require, if not force, the USE of such expensive hardware as digitizers (which have not gotten inexpensive enough to replace mice for everyday use) as opposed to a more general (and straightforward) modification of a feature the OS will have, making it more general (benefitting mouse AND touch users alike) as opposed to targeted.  Contrary to your thinking, it is NOT a touch-only or even a touch-specific benefit - if it were, I couldn't use it - as neither desktop OR notebook has touch support at all.  The same applies even to Android - which is perfectly usable without touch; it's done every day.  It is even true with iOS - again, it's proven every day.  However, you are so het up on the lack of mouse bias that you would dismiss even features that DO benefit mouse users because they are NOT exclusive to mouse usage.  (Forest vs. trees.)