Dissapointed in the Windows 10 Tech preview so far

[G0ldenheaven]

Fully update along with this build are cortana, reader , and about 2 more at least metro apps but you'll know which in the thread i just made Windows 10 Features.

[Active.]

I just don't understand from a developer perspective how they are going to be able to write one app that satisfies both.

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Now that's the part that interests me as well. I would really like them to specify what they mean when they talk about tailored experiences for each device. Will Continuum enable a smooth transition from a UI optimised for k+m usage to one optimised for touch usage, or is their position still that there can be one (Metro) UI that is optimal for all input methods on hybrid devices.

 

Specifically, are we looking at an optimised version of the Calculator app on the left, with the one on the right done away with? Or will both be somehow (how?) joined via Continuum. Or neither? What about the two IEs... etc.

[G0ldenheaven]

If you have been digging thru the preview like i done you'd see lots of mentions to phonesvc and phone stuff which in my opinion will make WP10 = WinX without a desktop making this one of the main reasons why the start screen is still here and even maybe why it even was created (Phone,Tablets,Phablets get Windows With Start Screen) desktop users get desktop and who knows maybe the capability of having phone specific functions on desktops.

[Praetor]

I, too, re-enabled the Start Screen.

 

-1 warwagons...  :laugh:  :rofl:

[PGHammer]

Ya, still don't expect big updates with this build, until the move to CP. Judging by on how win8 beta was tested and release.

Except that this is not a THING like the Windows 8 Developer Preview - the deployment mechanism, etc., is completely different.

 

So far, I have a grand total of two applications that have refused to work in a clean-install environment - both are games.

 

I have not tested an upgrade from Windows 8.1, though - that is next (to see if an OS-ism is the source of the issues related to those two games, as I'll be installing them in 8.1 before upgrading).

 

If it is indeed an OS-ism, not only will I be providing feedback, I'll be sending a complaint to the publisher/developer of record (Sony Online Entertainment for both games) warning them of the issue in question.

 

If the deployment mechanism, etc., is different from the previous OS, than judging it by that previous OS is a mistake.  (I'm NOT judging the Technical Preview by Windows 8's Developer Preview, but by Windows 8.1, especially in terms of application compatibility.  Except for those two games, backward-compatibility is as good as it gets - as good as 8.1 or 8, but better than 7.)

[+mram Subscriber²]

I'm annoyed that "PC Settings" and "Control Panel" still both exist, with similar things like user management in both. 

[Ian W]

New Services?

[Torolol]

so there could 'potential backdoor' could programmed in that TPM credential?

 

Is there a way to configures who the users lists that have (TPM) authenticates privileges?

I certainly do not want users that i do not know, having privileges to access to my computer, just because that services decided so.

[siah1214]

Even I got bored of the TP fast. Nothing new. Feels and runs like 8.1

 

The only thing new I noticed was fade effect while launching new programs or windows.

 

Rest of the stuff was meh!

 

Back to 8.1 now

 

There are more changes under the hood than graphically.. I guess I can see why the average user is confused.

The average user should not using this software under ANY circumstances. I don't even understand how this is up for discussion. 

[BajiRav]

New Services?

http://www.zdnet.com/microsofts-windows-10-more-on-the-under-the-covers-security-store-features-7000034305/

 

Windows 10 also includes "next generation user credentials," like password alternative, which enables single sign-in everywhere.

[(Account no longer active)]

Welcome to Microsoft 2014.

[eddman]

The early builds of vista looked like XP, but that's not how the end product looked. Let's wait and see how 10 pans out.

[gohpep]

Microsoft is releasing previews earlier than they ever had been before in the development cycle.

[(Account no longer active)]

The early builds of vista looked like XP, but that's not how the end product looked. Let's wait and see how 10 pans out.

On the other hand, there wasn't much change between the early and final builds of Windows 7 and 8.

Microsoft is releasing previews earlier than they ever had been before in the development cycle.

Which I great. I primarily came to Neowin to get the latest on features in leaked builds.

[Ian W]

so there could 'potential backdoor' could programmed in that TPM credential?

Please ask yourself: "Why there would there be a backdoor in services built for user authentication?"

 

Is there a way to configures who the users lists that have (TPM) authenticates privileges?

Note that the descriptions state that the keys are used to authenticate the user to identity providers. Presumably, the user will be able to choose.

The fact that there is support for TPM virtual smart cards is wonderful. It would be such a disappointment if Microsoft doesn't make further use of capabilities offered by the TPM, especially since the TPM 2.0 is required to pass the Windows hardware certification starting in 2015.

 

I certainly do not want users that i do not know, having privileges to access to my computer, just because that services decided so.

Based on their descriptions, the services are not about giving other users privileges to your computer; rather, the services are regarding the storage and protection of keys that are used to authenticate the user - or you - to identity providers.

 

http://www.zdnet.com/microsofts-windows-10-more-on-the-under-the-covers-security-store-features-7000034305/

Thank you for that. Even though the services look promising, I hope that Microsoft works more toward the features described in this whitepaper.

 

• Integrity: The NGSCB system verifies that user authentication information was not modified after it was submitted. For example, the system verifies that another entity did not substitute different information.

   

• Confidentiality: The NGSCB system maintains the security of the user authentication information by ensuring that no other entity can read the information.

   

• Authentication: The NGSCB system verifies that the user authentication information it receives is submitted by secure input devices. No other entity could have sent the information.

[libertas83]

I think the reason the OS is so "bare" is what better way to test the new development/release lifecycle they are moving to for Windows. They need a good starting point to roll out features and roll them out to different groups at the same time. If they included tons of new features, they wouldn't be able to truly test and work out this new release cycle. So they gave us just enough to whet the appetite with the promise of much more.

 

 

 

I agree with all of this. I'm not expecting the Screen on by default on stationary systems - I just want Microsoft to know that the demand is there for it as an option.

 

And the titlebar needs to be removable on fullscreen (as opposed to maximized) apps. If you're running in "full-Metro" mode, there's no need for a titlebar, even if you're using a mouse. Barring a disable option, they at least need to kill the annoying automatic dropdown behavior.

 

Click the 3 dots (...) in the title bar and click fullscreen, it will give you metro mode of the apps with the title bar auto-hiding like it does now in Windows 8.1.

 

 

Don't expect any major updates or patches with this release, the next big release will be CR in jan\feb 2015. Which will probable be a new iso download.

 

 

Ya, still don't expect big updates with this build, until the move to CP. Judging by on how win8 beta was tested and release.

 

 

I don't think you paid close enough attention. The point of this release is to release features rapidly for feedback and testing to the IT Professional community. They will hold back certain features certainly, but they will be pushing tons of changes over the next couple months to see how it works. This has to happen to make sure they iron out the kinks in the upgrade process and they are wanting to get feedback on changes before it goes further down the rabbit hole. This is a new way of developing Windows so nothing from the past can be inferred on this release.

 

I can see your point but at the same time, these are all steps to remove the 'duality' for regular PC users.  To that end, they may over-react and explicitly not give the option on touch-less devices, preferring to let continuum control it.  Much like the title bar complaint, these are all items that arguably should be under the hood if it works - supporting the few users that think Metro is good with a mouse, less so.  Or maybe it will just be poetic justice for the change crowd.  Change back. ;)

 

I just don't understand from a developer perspective how they are going to be able to write one app that satisfies both.

Capture.jpg

 

They need to rethink WinRT controls to some degree to really make this work. They could merge the WinForms and WPF controls with a newer theme that more closely matches WinRT apps and then make it where it scales better in touch mode vs desktop mode.

 

Just thinking of Zune vs Xbox Music and you see they are similar in some ways but the overly big UI in Xbox Music is out of place on Desktop mode. Move back to Zune as the staple UI for WinRT apps and they could pull it off.

 

Ideally, they should re-unite .NET and WinRT now that Sinfoskly is gone to flesh out the API more quickly. After all, it is basically .NET with a ripped out API to make it not be .NET.

[PGHammer]

I think the reason the OS is so "bare" is what better way to test the new development/release lifecycle they are moving to for Windows. They need a good starting point to roll out features and roll them out to different groups at the same time. If they included tons of new features, they wouldn't be able to truly test and work out this new release cycle. So they gave us just enough to whet the appetite with the promise of much more.

 

 

 

 

Click the 3 dots (...) in the title bar and click fullscreen, it will give you metro mode of the apps with the title bar auto-hiding like it does now in Windows 8.1.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think you paid close enough attention. The point of this release is to release features rapidly for feedback and testing to the IT Professional community. They will hold back certain features certainly, but they will be pushing tons of changes over the next couple months to see how it works. This has to happen to make sure they iron out the kinks in the upgrade process and they are wanting to get feedback on changes before it goes further down the rabbit hole. This is a new way of developing Windows so nothing from the past can be inferred on this release.

 

 

They need to rethink WinRT controls to some degree to really make this work. They could merge the WinForms and WPF controls with a newer theme that more closely matches WinRT apps and then make it where it scales better in touch mode vs desktop mode.

 

Just thinking of Zune vs Xbox Music and you see they are similar in some ways but the overly big UI in Xbox Music is out of place on Desktop mode. Move back to Zune as the staple UI for WinRT apps and they could pull it off.

 

Ideally, they should re-unite .NET and WinRT now that Sinfoskly is gone to flesh out the API more quickly. After all, it is basically .NET with a ripped out API to make it not be .NET.

The issue is NOT necessarily removing the duality - but enabling all users to leverage it in a way that suits individual users.

 

The fact that duality exists at all is a mirror of the increased amount of dual-capability (if not multi-capability) hardware; the hardware that first exhibited that goes back to Windows 7, if not Vista - however, the OS itself (I'm referring to Windows 7) didn't really take advantage of the hardware's capabilities.

 

Every user is different - don't assume that every user (even every keyboard+mouse user) works the same way.  One thing that every OS has lacked is being able to fine-grain the user experience to individual users.  Windows 8 is the first operating system to really tackle that problem head-on - and the fact that it tackled it at all is a novel way of thinking.

 

While Windows 10's Technical Preview IS more keyboard-biased than Windows 8, it doesn't dismiss ModernUI, either.  There's still a great deal of ModernUI present in the OS - even the redesigned Start menu makes that plain.  What IS present (that Windows 8 AND 8.1 both lacked) is being able to adjust it to suit the individual user.

 

That is the biggest thing about Windows 10 compared to all previous versions of Windows - it's decidedly NOT all or none.

 

Yes - it's new territory, and especially in the case of Windows.  However, because of the wide (and getting wider) variety of HARDWARE that Windows runs on, fine-graining/fine-tuning is necessary.

 

Yes - being able to fine-tune/fine-grain the User Experience is a scary, if not frightening thing in enterprises, and it's something they aren't used to.

 

However, that same realization is why Windows 10's Technical Preview is targeting primarily the enterprise - this IS a new way of thinking, and enterprises need to get used to it being even possible.

[PGHammer]

I'm annoyed that "PC Settings" and "Control Panel" still both exist, with similar things like user management in both. 

Too early yet for any major changes - however, PC Settings has started to gain some features from Control Panel  (WU is itself present in PC Settings now - that was NOT the case in either 8 or 8.1).  The same is true with Server Manager/Control Panel on the server side (since Windows Server 2008, there has been some duplication between Server Manager and Control Panel - this has remained the case through Server 2012R2; check the Microsoft Server subforum here for evidence/hard data).  In other words, the crossover between PC Settings and Control Panel (non-servers) IS like that between Server Manager and Control Panel (servers) - the migration WILL take time.

[Stoffel]

Too early yet for any major changes - however, PC Settings has started to gain some features from Control Panel  (WU is itself present in PC Settings now - that was NOT the case in either 8 or 8.1).  The same is true with Server Manager/Control Panel on the server side (since Windows Server 2008, there has been some duplication between Server Manager and Control Panel - this has remained the case through Server 2012R2; check the Microsoft Server subforum here for evidence/hard data).  In other words, the crossover between PC Settings and Control Panel (non-servers) IS like that between Server Manager and Control Panel (servers) - the migration WILL take time.

 

I'm running Win 8.1 U1 and I have WU in PC Settings.

It's not new to Win 10 TP

[Active.]

Too early yet for any major changes - however, PC Settings has started to gain some features from Control Panel [...] the migration WILL take time.

migration? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but imo this is another case of where Control Panel should remain the k+m UI (but should also be cleaned up a lot) and automatically turn into the Metro-style UI via Continuum.  OR get rid of Control Panel but then major changes would have to happen on the Metro UI side to optimise it for k+m usage...

[Active.]

No this is no major windows release. You must wait for kernel 7

what was the last major windows release then?

[theyarecomingforyou]

Every user is different - don't assume that every user (even every keyboard+mouse user) works the same way.  One thing that every OS has lacked is being able to fine-grain the user experience to individual users.  Windows 8 is the first operating system to really tackle that problem head-on - and the fact that it tackled it at all is a novel way of thinking.

You're joking, right? Windows 8 forced desktop users to use an interface designed for tablets and was incredibly awkward to use on mouse and keyboard. It certainly didn't allow users to 'fine-grain the user experience'.

 

While Windows 10's Technical Preview IS more keyboard-biased than Windows 8, it doesn't dismiss ModernUI, either.  There's still a great deal of ModernUI present in the OS - even the redesigned Start menu makes that plain.  What IS present (that Windows 8 AND 8.1 both lacked) is being able to adjust it to suit the individual user.

Windows 10 isn't more keyboard-biased, it just leverages the strengths of each platform. That is most evident with 2-in-1's, where it changes the UI based upon the inputs. On the desktop there is absolutely no disputing that Metro has been dialled back and it is up to the user to determine how much they use it, which is a definite improvement.

[PGHammer]

migration? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but imo this is another case of where Control Panel should remain the k+m UI (but should also be cleaned up a lot) and automatically turn into the Metro-style UI via Continuum.  OR get rid of Control Panel but then major changes would have to happen on the Metro UI side to optimise it for k+m usage...

PC Settings is navigable by keyboard+mouse as well (even though it IS a ModernUI app) - the Technical Preview proves that much.  (It was just as navigable in even Windows 8, so that isn't it.)

 

What you are basically arguing for is the retention of "the way things have been"/tradition - an emotional argument - as opposed to moving forward as new features advance (taking advantage of technological improvements).  (That is why I pointed to Windows Server, where that same "battle" has been fought going all the way back to the first appearance of Server Manager.  There is STILL a great deal of resistance to moving features to Server Manager - though even though the critics freely admit that it IS all about emotion as opposed to whether a feature belongs in Server Manager or not.)

[Active.]

PC Settings is navigable by keyboard+mouse as well (even though it IS a ModernUI app) - the Technical Preview proves that much.  (It was just as navigable in even Windows 8, so that isn't it.) 

 

Of course it's navigable. The Windows 8 UI was navigable. It's not optimal though. 

 

 

What you are basically arguing for is the retention of "the way things have been"/tradition - an emotional argument - as opposed to moving forward as new features advance (taking advantage of technological improvements).  

Uh, no. I'd like them to turn Control Panel into something far more usable for k+m users. It could use A LOT of improvement. I just don't see the solution in Metro PC settings as it exists now... Just like the Metro calculator isn't really optimised to run in a window at this point.

[PGHammer]

 

You're joking, right? Windows 8 forced desktop users to use an interface designed for tablets and was incredibly awkward to use on mouse and keyboard. It certainly didn't allow users to 'fine-grain the user experience'.

 

Windows 10 isn't more keyboard-biased, it just leverages the strengths of each platform. That is most evident with 2-in-1's, where it changes the UI based upon the inputs. On the desktop there is absolutely no disputing that Metro has been dialled back and it is up to the user to determine how much they use it, which is a definite improvement.

 

 

Not necessarily DESIGNED for tablets - but it WAS more tablet-friendly, which I didn't dispute.  Notice that I whacked Windows 8 for lack of adjustment between the two - which the Technical Preview has.

 

Again, you are thinking that ALL keyboard+mouse users work the same way - that is something I disagree with.  Something that nobody knows is how many work that way due to lack of options or by user-preference, as Windows 8 was also the first version of Windows to break out of that single method of interaction.  Not all keyboard+mouse users work the same way - the same applies to tablet users;  I didn't make the reference to keyboard users on tablets for my health.

 

Being able to adjust (I've referred to it as fine-tuning or fine-graining) IS needed - and that is entirely a user-preference issue - it has nothing to do with keyboard+mouse OR touch.

 

Windows 10 (Technical Preview) is no more all-or-none than Windows 8's Developer Preview was - however, it is far more adjustable.

 

That is the real difference in usability terms - adjustability.