DocM Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Major ramifications to Tuesday's Antares rocket failure Orbital - ATK merger at risk http://online.wsj.com/articles/alliant-tech-evaluating-merger-plans-after-orbital-rocket-explosion-1414600503 Alliant Tech Evaluating Merger Plans After Orbital Rocket Explosion > Alliant Techsystems Inc. said it is evaluating any potential implications from Tuesday night's explosion of Orbital Sciences Inc.'s Antares rocket, a hint their plans to merge could be in jeopardy. > http://www.cnbc.com/id/102132282# Shares in Orbital Sciences, Alliant Tech halted after Tuesday night rocket explosion > Trading in the stocks was halted so that Orbital, which has planned to buy Alliant, could hold a conference call to discuss the rocket's failure with investors and analysts. > Questions about using old Soviet techhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/10/29/antares-rocket-explosion-the-question-of-using-decades-old-soviet-engines/?wpmm=AG0003327 Antares rocket explosion: The question of using decades-old Soviet engines > Instead, all four launches of the mighty N1 Soviet rocket, which used an earlier iteration of the first-stage engines used in Thursday's launch, failed between 1969 and 1972. And as the Soviet Union abandoned the idea of putting cosmonauts on the moon, those engines languished in Russia "without a purpose," reported Space Lift Now. That was until they were snapped up by Dulles-based Orbital Sciences, which built the rocket that exploded. It uses two modified versions of those Russian engines to propel missions to the International Space Station, according to the company?s user?s guide. To be clear, investigators say they do not know what caused Tuesday?s explosion, which destroyed hundreds of millions of dollars worth of equipment. But some observers are questioning those Soviet-era engines. > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 RD-181 being the he export version of RD-193 - the Angara engine Jeff Foist @jeff_foust Russian media says Orbital's contract for the RD-181 covers 20 engines, with options for 40 more; total value $1B. http://t.co/W37A3jmx8E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123456789A Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Are these Russian rockets? Hopefully we can stop using those things. They probably pollute a lot. Need electric Prius rockets instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intersect Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Are these Russian rockets? Hopefully we can stop using those things. They probably pollute a lot. Need electric Prius rockets instead. the new prius Xplorer will require charges during flights. NASA in talks with Samsung to produce ultra fast charging battery's Stokkolm 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malenfant Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Good descision. Looks like Orbital dodged a bullet here. Leaves the ATK merger looking somewhat redundant though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Warwagon MVC Posted December 17, 2014 MVC Share Posted December 17, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 The problem. I see is that if relations with Russia worsen even this sale could be banned, either by the administration or Congress. Obama's also preparing to sign another round of sanctions soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malenfant Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 If it were only a matter of technology and finance... Of course you're right. There's everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 The Russian engine market is going to dry up for several reasons. The Russian engine ban for military launches takes hold in 2018, which cuts Orbital out of a big market, and other US made launch options are on the horizon and sailing at flank speed. SpaceX is only part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malenfant Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Seems to me Orbital will loose out far sooner than 2018 if this deal doesn't go through. And despite all the big talk I don't think the hammer will drop untill alternatives are well in place. SpaceX looks well placed. Orbital and ULA need Russian engines for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 SpaceX is very well placed, and it remains to be seen what it'll take to build the ULA/Blue Origin methane launcher. A methane launcher needs larger tanks because of methanes lower bulk density vs kerosene. It'll also need insulation in the fuel tank. One possibility is to try and adapt the Delta IV tanks. They're larger in diameter than Atlas V, 5m vs. 3.81m, and already insulated for LH2. It would need a new thrust structure and plumbing, but they need those anyhow. They say rockets aren't tinker toys, but this may be an exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisj1968 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Quote Antares rocket explosion: The question of using decades-old Soviet engines > Instead, all four launches of the mighty (2)N1 Soviet rocket, which used an earlier iteration of the first-stage engines used in Thursday's launch, failed between 1969 and 1972. And as the Soviet Union abandoned the idea of putting cosmonauts on the moon, those engines languished in Russia "without a purpose," reported Space Lift Now. That was until they were snapped up by Dulles-based Orbital Sciences, which built the rocket that exploded. It uses two modified versions of those Russian engines to propel missions to the International Space Station, according to the company?s user?s guide. To be clear, (1)investigators say they do not know what caused Tuesday?s explosion, which destroyed hundreds of millions of dollars worth of equipment. But some observers are questioning those Soviet-era engines. #(1) is because they didn't pay attention to #(2). a failure in design? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Design and storage. Several NK-33's have had test stand failures, here and in Russia, and after they were shelved by Russia in the 1970's they were stored in non-climate controlled conditions until they were bought. That's no-no with advanced metallurgy and coatings. Russia has used some, but quickly started a campaign to replace it with the RD-193/RD-181 for Angara and export respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisj1968 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 @ warwagon: That's one huge explosion! Design and storage.Several NK-33's have had test stand failures, here and in Russia, and after they were shelved by Russia in the 1970's they were stored in non-climate controlled conditions until they were bought. That's no-no with advanced metallurgy and coatings. now we know why we don't buy old equipment and look into why we research this stuff, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Orbital is actually the SECOND US customer for these NK-33's. When the original 2 commercial cargo contracts were let they went to SpaceX and Rocketplane-Kistler (RpK), with Orbital Sciences finishing 3rd with no contract. RpK was going to use the NK-33's, but they missed numerous milestones so NASA cancelled their contract. RpK soon went bankrupt. NASA then gave the 2nd commercial cargo contract to Orbital Sciences and they bought the NK-33's, and we know how that turned out. Also with egg on their faces is Aerojet-Rocketdyne. They handled the refurbishment, relabeling them as AJ26. The whole thing is a Charlie Foxtrot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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