camuflage Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 A small company has 3 computers running windows 7 Pro X86 and a server running WinXP PRO X86. The server has 2 disks 160GB in RAID and 2Gb of memory (it allows a maximum of 8Gb PC5400, 2Gb per slot and has 4 slots). The actual main need of the server is the access to an application. (doesn't run on linux) They would like to upgrade the server with 8GB of RAM and Win7 Pro x64 but how about the HDD? Should they keep it as it is? Or should they invest in one SSD? RAID is ok? And What kind of RAID? Going up to Win7 or for Win8? Backups of any system don't exist at the moment. What solution would you recommend for backing-up all the 3 pc's and sever? The idea is that in the event of a problem with one of more of the computers it can easily get restored. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindovermaster Moderator Posted November 1, 2014 Moderator Share Posted November 1, 2014 This sounds like a school question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc302 Veteran Posted November 1, 2014 Veteran Share Posted November 1, 2014 Not much of a server. Before I would invest in anything I would be looking at a complete replacement. You really shouldn't be running hardware that old, it is asking for failure. configure as you wish. Raid 6 would be best followed by raid 10. Backups can be done on the cloud for next to nothing a month. You can do your own research as to why and how much and why this is the best solution. Cost vs risk vs mean uptime. Go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 A small company has 3 computers running windows 7 Pro X86 and a server running WinXP PRO X86. The server has 2 disks 160GB in RAID and 2Gb of memory (it allows a maximum of 8Gb PC5400, 2Gb per slot and has 4 slots). The actual main need of the server is the access to an application. (doesn't run on linux) They would like to upgrade the server with 8GB of RAM and Win7 Pro x64 but how about the HDD? Should they keep it as it is? Or should they invest in one SSD? RAID is ok? And What kind of RAID? Going up to Win7 or for Win8? Backups of any system don't exist at the moment. What solution would you recommend for backing-up all the 3 pc's and sever? The idea is that in the event of a problem with one of more of the computers it can easily get restored. Thank you. lets part into small bytes, shall we? 1) a "server" running Windows XP Pro x86 won't get you anywhere, for the sole fact that OS isn't server grade at all, not to mention the maximum TCP connections it allows is a complete joke. That's a client OS, not a server OS. Also if the "server" is running XP, then i can assume that: a) the hardware isn't good enough for a decent upgrade because it's old and b) it's a x86 OS, so it's severely limited. 2) the fact that the "server" allows more then 4GB means jack, because you are running a x86 OS. 3) 2 disks in RAID, but what kind of level of RAID? And it's a hardware RAID (with a RAID card, like promisse, LSI, etc) or a Fake RAID, by using the mainboard chipset? 4) so no backups at all, eh? then STOP RIGHT NOW. that's the first thing you should do right now, because while you are asking questions the whole infrastructure could be burning by now and they would be loosing everything. So, let's see: First of all that app that you said that company needs to access: does it exist a cloud variant? Like a CRM (PHC, Primavera and Sage have cloud versions of their CRMs, for example). Because if there is a cloud variant, then ask all sort of questions (SLA, uptimes, cost, implementations, limitations, etc.) because you can most likely ditch the whole server and just use the cloud version of that app. There is alot of cloud vendors (i know, i work for one of the top in YOUR COUNTRY) and prices are slowly going down, so that's a good thing. Second: if you really need a server for that app (for example, it's a non virtualized app, or it's not possible to host that app outside of the company because of regulations, for example), then just invest in a new server with a server OS: it's pretty cheap and it provides the best solution then a homemade XP-as-a-server type of solution that you have right now. And invest in a efficient backup: it can be cloud (i do work with cloud backups so i know there is a ample market in this sector, with cheap prices for small data), on premisses or a hybrid type of backup. anyway, ask for several vendors but use your brains as well: you need to see if you can ditch the server (because it's most likely old, out of warranty, needs maintenance, costs electricity, good cooling, etc.) because a server for 3 people...it's just overkill. But if you really need a server then ask a vendor for a complete solution: cost of the hardware (server), software (OS, app), data migrations, licenses and the total cost of that migration and you will see how much it will cost from a homemade solution into a professional one. Also there is VDI: again, there are vendors (in Portugal there isn't much, but still there is some) that provide IaaS (Infrastructure as a Service), that you just pay a monthly sum and you get that app and / or several more, without the hassle of backups, maintenance or other headaches. And again, ask for quotes, SLA and limitations. if there is more question just ask! Not much of a server. Before I would invest in anything I would be looking at a complete replacement. You really shouldn't be running hardware that old, it is asking for failure. configure as you wish. Raid 6 would be best followed by raid 10. Backups can be done on the cloud for next to nothing a month. You can do your own research as to why and how much and why this is the best solution. Cost vs risk vs mean uptime. Go! i've seen clients with servers so old that they were barely hanging... now they don't even have servers, just use IaaS. camuflage 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc302 Veteran Posted November 1, 2014 Veteran Share Posted November 1, 2014 Yep and if you're looking too make an investment in New hardware you should be buying new hardware, not trying to make an ancient system work better. 2 years old sure, not 10 years old. Praetor 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindovermaster Moderator Posted November 1, 2014 Moderator Share Posted November 1, 2014 Let's get Budman in here.... :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Yep and if you're looking too make an investment in New hardware you should be buying new hardware, not trying to make an ancient system work better. 2 years old sure, not 10 years old. implementing new hardware into a 10 year old system would result in a new one by the time it finishes to implement it :laugh: :laugh: SMB servers are pretty cheap for this kind of setup and Windows Server 2012 R2 Standard it's not only cheap but it even allows for 2 VMs with Hyper-V, so it's 3 servers for the price of 1! And if research is done well, he can even ditch the server and go IaaS all the way. Let's get Budman in here.... :laugh: Shh.. let him sleep lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camuflage Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 lets part into small bytes, shall we? 1) a "server" running Windows XP Pro x86 won't get you anywhere, for the sole fact that OS isn't server grade at all, not to mention the maximum TCP connections it allows is a complete joke. That's a client OS, not a server OS. Also if the "server" is running XP, then i can assume that: a) the hardware isn't good enough for a decent upgrade because it's old and b) it's a x86 OS, so it's severely limited. I'm new at the company, this is the current configuration, and while i'm not an informatics technician, i am aware it's a time bomb. 2) the fact that the "server" allows more then 4GB means jack, because you are running a x86 OS. Yes i'm aware of it. 3) 2 disks in RAID, but what kind of level of RAID? And it's a hardware RAID (with a RAID card, like promisse, LSI, etc) or a Fake RAID, by using the mainboard chipset? I think it's a fake one, need to confirm but i'm almost sure it's a fake one. 4) so no backups at all, eh? then STOP RIGHT NOW. that's the first thing you should do right now, because while you are asking questions the whole infrastructure could be burning by now and they would be loosing everything. I have alerted the persons for the risks and that's why i'm looking for a solution to present them the options. So, let's see: First of all that app that you said that company needs to access: does it exist a cloud variant? Like a CRM (PHC, Primavera and Sage have cloud versions of their CRMs, for example). Because if there is a cloud variant, then ask all sort of questions (SLA, uptimes, cost, implementations, limitations, etc.) because you can most likely ditch the whole server and just use the cloud version of that app. There is alot of cloud vendors (i know, i work for one of the top in YOUR COUNTRY) and prices are slowly going down, so that's a good thing. Second: if you really need a server for that app (for example, it's a non virtualized app, or it's not possible to host that app outside of the company because of regulations, for example), then just invest in a new server with a server OS: it's pretty cheap and it provides the best solution then a homemade XP-as-a-server type of solution that you have right now. And invest in a efficient backup: it can be cloud (i do work with cloud backups so i know there is a ample market in this sector, with cheap prices for small data), on premisses or a hybrid type of backup. The application is used in the customs, it's developed by a local informatics company which also provides the upgrades and phone support, only available for Windows (yes it works with 7 x64). It's a small app but i don't how much space it requires for the backups (yes it allows you to make backups of the reports and data that is generated if you programme it). Doesn't compare to any kind of PHC, it's lighter than that. The server is also used to share printers in the network specially the ones with no drivers for OS higher than XP. I am not aware of the cloud services solutions or the costs. anyway, ask for several vendors but use your brains as well: you need to see if you can ditch the server (because it's most likely old, out of warranty, needs maintenance, costs electricity, good cooling, etc.) because a server for 3 people...it's just overkill. But if you really need a server then ask a vendor for a complete solution: cost of the hardware (server), software (OS, app), data migrations, licenses and the total cost of that migration and you will see how much it will cost from a homemade solution into a professional one. It's an old one but i don't think the company is willing to buy a new one Also there is VDI: again, there are vendors (in Portugal there isn't much, but still there is some) that provide IaaS (Infrastructure as a Service), that you just pay a monthly sum and you get that app and / or several more, without the hassle of backups, maintenance or other headaches. And again, ask for quotes, SLA and limitations. Can you provide some examples? Edit: one of the workstations is used a lot to share documents and so one, if it goes down, it will take a lot of documents (word, excel, some templates) with it! I guess it's something that should be on the server and not be dependent on a workstation. Thank you for your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc302 Veteran Posted November 1, 2014 Veteran Share Posted November 1, 2014 A new server will cost you about 400 in hardware if you go with an hp microserver. You are looking at more than that in hardware to upgrade your system. A few hundred in drives alone. You think that ram for that is going to be cheap? The demand and supply isn't there, I would say another hundred in that. So where are we now 400-500, you are now in the range of a new server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 ... I can't say the name of the company i work for because that would be a conflict of interests and it will not be ethical at all, but you can ask Microsoft for a solutions partner and they would provide a list of respectable partners in different levels. Again, for that setup you can be server free by using a VDI solution (think of a remote desktop with all the software you need and all the files your company uses in there, making your Windows 7 basically dumb terminals); the main problem you have is: the lack of backups (that should be your n?1 priority by now) and that software; it must be able to be virtualized (ask the software company if it's possible and what vendors they recommend; if they don't know then it's a huge risk because they have to work with the partner you chose to implement that solution and provide support in a new environment, but from my experience it's doable). A new server can be so cheap, but the implementation can be more expensive then the server itself. Again, ask for quotes from those partners. It's a fun project and for a little money you can have much more reliable, efficient and cheap system in the future. A new server will cost you about 400 in hardware if you go with an hp microserver. You are looking at more than that in hardware to upgrade your system. A few hundred in drives alone. You think that ram for that is going to be cheap? The demand and supply isn't there, I would say another hundred in that. So where are we now 400-500, you are now in the range of a new server. my HP Microserver i use @ home costed less then 180? (without drives, RAM or OS licence); adding drives + RAM + licences the prices goes only up (i already had the RAM, HDDs and the OS licenses for it). It can be very cheap or very expensive, depends on the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc302 Veteran Posted November 1, 2014 Veteran Share Posted November 1, 2014 The hardware to bring it to a raid 1 and 8gb of memory shouldn't really exceed 400, it can easily. The more drives the more it will raise the cost, but this person can easily take what he would put into the old system and get a brand new system with the specs he wants for the same out close to the same price as upgrading the existing system. Already looking at a os upgrade, memory upgrade, harddrive replacement (possibly ssd). Could get a system that has all of that already either new or manufacturer refurbished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camuflage Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 Show me some kind of severs that would fit the requirements for example and cloud prices that can manage everything of it and it's prices. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc302 Veteran Posted November 1, 2014 Veteran Share Posted November 1, 2014 Do your own research. I gave you the make and model before. Look up prices on idrive, crashplan, and mozy. There are others. I am not doing your homework for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Show me some kind of severs that would fit the requirements for example and cloud prices that can manage everything of it and it's prices. Thank you. well, that's your job, isn't it? :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camuflage Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share Posted November 2, 2014 Not at well, that's your job, isn't it? :rolleyes: Not at all, i'm not an IT person, just looking for opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AStaUK Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Not at Not at all, i'm not an IT person, just looking for opinions. Then I would look to bring in a consultant. Someone that can look over your requirements, budget and then help you implement it. In the long run it may save you money and time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+BudMan MVC Posted November 2, 2014 MVC Share Posted November 2, 2014 There is some good info in here.. Who is they? "They would like to upgrade" As stated already a few times, there is no point in putting newer parts into that system. If they want to update their systems then do so with new hardware and better look at what they are doing. No backup - Agree stop everything this second and get a BACKUP.. Primary concern of any business would be safety of their data, and the DR plan -- what does the business do if where these servers/machines are housed was lost in fire/tornado - what if some kids broke in and stole this XP box, no real thieves would still such old crap ;) heheheh If your not IT, then also as suggested I would bring in someone on consulting contract to help you get where you should be. Even with consulting it can be done on shoestring, etc. Not all businesses are billion dollar enterprises, etc.. But there is a cost of doing business and making sure the business data is safe and online working as much as possible. As suggested with this application, I would look to newer version, hosted solution maybe even?? Or worse case if the thing only runs on XP, you can run that in a VM, etc. While current software is moved to or timeline on replacement is worked out, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Not at Not at all, i'm not an IT person, just looking for opinions. Well if you aren't the IT of said company then i strongly suggest to get a IT consultant as said before in this thread; i've already said that you can contact Microsoft and they would direct you into a partner for you. You wont ask in a construction forum for someone to handle you construction enterprises names and prices, would you? :laugh: :D You do understand that even said company as a very limited budget, you can get a respectable consultant investigate some proven solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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