A poll for laptop owners

[TAZMINATOR]

I had the same experience with my Toshiba. It's not the size; it's all the third-party stuff included in the installers, which you need to have to control things (ie. power plan settings, volume buttons/wheel). It's either you use Toshiba's software (which must communicate with internal hardware on the logic board at quite a low level), or don't get the functionality at all. Basically after installation/restart, you have about 10 extra things appear in your task tray and some 'control center' appear on your Desktop, all adding about a minute or two to the boot time (if you don't have an SSD drive).

 

Thankfully other vendors allow you to run Windows 'clean'.

 

I have Toshiba... I don't have that problem..  My windows is clean.  :)

 

Boots up quick enough ... it's fine. And it is not SSD.  :)

 

If people do not know what they are doing, then that's the problem.

 

That's the reason I fix the computers for them. For example, "My computer is dang slow! I have no idea why?! It was fast when I got it."   I tell them to bring it to me and I fix it and the problem is solved.

[Astra.Xtreme]

Without OEM garbage installed boot time is around 20 seconds. Occupied RAM: a little over 1GB.

With all the garbage installed boot time is over two minutes. Occupied RAM: a little over 2GB.

 

Are you confusing "drivers" with the trial bloatware that comes pre-installed on a PC you buy from a store?

 

Most people here are smart enough to know that the first thing you do with a store-bought PC is to wipe it clean and install a fresh copy of Windows.

 

Installing the hardware drivers has zero negative impact on performance.  In some cases it would be the other way around.  Good luck without GPU drivers.

[birdie]

Are you confusing "drivers" with the trial bloatware that comes pre-installed on a PC you buy from a store?

 

No, perhaps because I've been an IT specialist for the past fifteen years. I'm not talking about the crappy additional software that comes bundled with laptops, I'm talking solely about the software which is a part of a driver suite. Do me a favor - find any Toshiba Satellite laptop on Toshiba's support website and count the number of apps/drivers which must be installed. You can repeat that with Sony and HP. All three are the biggest offenders in regard to "necessary" software components required to run your laptop.

 

For instance Toshiba's Value Added Package alone weighs over 100MB compressed - and that IS a driver without which your special Fn keys won't work. Now you can pretend you don't need these buttons but most people expect them to work (to change brightness, volume, put the laptop to sleep, switch outputs, etc.)

 

Why do people often assume that the person they're talking too is an idiot, just because something that he's saying looks unusual (like my comment about an increased memory usage)?

 

What terribly sucks about Neowin and other forums is that you ask simple questions and your threads turn into utter BS, because your questions' validity is doubted.

 

I'm not asking you to discuss drivers and sh*t. I'm not asking you to discuss Windows, Linux, MacOS X or my mental abilities.

 

I asked you to answer five simple questions. If you don't own a laptop, or you're too fecking lazy to answer, why bother sharing your opinion? I do not need it. Move along, please.

[birdie]

I have Toshiba... I don't have that problem..  My windows is clean.  :)

 

Without Toshiba's VAP your Fn keys most likely do not work. But you don't need them right? And you've no idea how fast I can make Windows (hint: it will boot in 25% less time than with all the hints that you can find on the web even without disabling any services or deleting any components or files).

 

I think the OP, in an effort to reduce bloat, has gotten some bad info, and has started paying too much attention to what amounts to miniscule difference.

 

When a quarter of your physical RAM is wasted that's not a miniscule difference. But you know better, right? You're a specialist, right? Or filthy rich, right? Or you install 16 gigs of RAM on every laptop you own, right? And an SSD too? I'm very glad for you. Really!

[tsupersonic]

Depends on the laptop, sometimes you're lucky and most FN keys work. Other times you do have to install some certain driver package to get it to work. There are other things you can do such as trying to extract/install just the driver package rather than the whole software suite, which you probably don't need. I like to stick with the "If you don't need it, then don't install it" policy. Do things properly, and you won't have a >2 min. boot time or 2 GB of RAM usage.

[birdie]

Depends on the laptop, sometimes you're lucky and most FN keys work. Other times you do have to install some certain driver package to get it to work. There are other things you can do such as trying to extract/install just the driver package rather than the whole software suite, which you probably don't need. I like to stick with the "If you don't need it, then don't install it" policy. Do things properly, and you won't have a >2 min. boot time or 2 GB of RAM usage.

 

This is why this thread was created - I don't want to take chances. However, given that people cannot spend a few minutes answering the questions, I think I won't ever ask here anything anymore:

 

this thread is asking me to do something that sounds exhausting.

[birdie]

Wat.

 

Buddy, storage space doesn't impact system speed.

I'm not your buddy.

 

Firstly, extra drivers packages do impact system boot up time.

 

Secondly, extra drivers packages do impact system speed 'cause if you're low on RAM, your Windows will use your HDD more (not enough RAM for caching) and your apps or even Windows itself may even stall if you're running out of RAM (Windows will use SWAP like crazy).

 

I guess you've never opened 50+ tabs in Firefox or Chrome on a system with less than 2 gigs of RAM. Try it. And then tell me how fast you can switch between apps or tabs of your browser.

 

OK, I'm done with this topic. People with zero IT knowledge and almost no common sense make me look like I'm an idiot. I'm not ready to argue with them.

 

Please, do not reply to this topic, if you're not answering the questions in the original message. Thank you.

[TAZMINATOR]

Without Toshiba's VAP your Fn keys most likely do not work. But you don't need them right? And you've no idea how fast I can make Windows (hint: it will boot in 25% less time than with all the hints that you can find on the web even without disabling any services or deleting any components or files).

 

 

I have FN key on mine but I never use it.

 

I have an external keyboard because I am using an external monitor hooked up to the laptop that is sitting aside with the laptop screen closed down.  :)

 

The reason I am doing this way is because the laptop is heavy to carry and it is carrying 17" screen.  So I am leaving it here for home use. I have a 15" laptop for travel that I don't need external keyboard/monitor at all for this.

[Tha Bloo Monkee]

Things to not write when asking for help:

 

When a quarter of your physical RAM is wasted that's not a miniscule difference. But you know better, right? You're a specialist, right? Or filthy rich, right? Or you install 16 gigs of RAM on every laptop you own, right? And an SSD too? I'm very glad for you. Really!

 

 

I asked you to answer five simple questions. If you don't own a laptop, or you're too fecking lazy to answer, why bother sharing your opinion? I do not need it. Move along, please.

[Ironman273]

Drivers are for devices.  The more devices you want to have working, the more drivers are loaded into memory.  The hardware buttons on a laptop are no different than, say a joystick that you install.  It's a new device that needs drivers to work.  Now, that being said, I try to load only the drivers, and not the "setup package" that usually includes some TSR programs that stay in the tray.  Install a base Windows, see which devices are missing drivers in the Device Manager and install the drivers from there.  

 

You can't expect to use devices without drivers.

[Rippleman]

Exactly!

 

Besides running Windows without additional drivers and applications results in a considerably faster and stabler system.

 

I recently set up a Toshiba laptop for my friend, and his hardware buttons only work after installing 350MB of drivers (Toshiba Value-on Addon plus Toshiba bluethooth stack plus Bluethooth drivers) - you can imagine the laptop become quite slower after that.

 

the correct drivers make your computer faster, not slower. Unless you are misunderstanding actual drivers with the programs that sometimes come with the drivers. The programs (bloatware) are horrible, the drivers are not. You can disable the programs and keep the driver part.

[techbeck]

Wat.

 

Buddy, storage space doesn't impact system speed.

 

Uhhh, installing a lot of drivers on a system or system software can indeed cause speed issues.  It is not about the amount of space the software takes up, it is how it interacts with the system that causes issues.  OEMs like to put their bloat/crapware on systems and it tends to screw with things.

[T3X4S]

...

 

 

When a quarter of your physical RAM is wasted that's not a miniscule difference. But you know better, right? You're a specialist, right? Or filthy rich, right? Or you install 16 gigs of RAM on every laptop you own, right? And an SSD too? I'm very glad for you. Really!

Touchy touchy

A specialist ?  Well that was a title I was given a few years ago, now its pretty much SysAdmin, Support Engineer, stuff like that.  Not saying I know better, Im saying it doesnt matter.  For the last 10 years maybe, the first thing I do to an OEM before giving it to the employee/client/friend/family member is a clean install of the OS, then only load what is necessary, and since most people dont use all of the bloated crap - its never an issue.

Filthy rich ?  No

SSD on every laptop, well the last several ones have been SSD...yeah

16GB RAM ?  sometimes 8.

You're not too good at this asking for help, and being patient thing are you ? 

But Im glad your happy for me, thats nice of you :|

And when it comes to installing the drivers, and their software  - most of the time - I dont.

I decompress the driver pkg. then tell the device through devmgr where to look in that decompressed pkg for the driver - no muss, no fuss.

Only on some drivers do I install the software that goes with it (anything chipset related, and especially grfx drivers) anything else gets the backdoor approach

[T3X4S]

Uhhh, installing a lot of drivers on a system or system software can indeed cause speed issues.  It is not about the amount of space the software takes up, it is how it interacts with the system that causes issues.  OEMs like to put their bloat/crapware on systems and it tends to screw with things.

I think he was just saying that storage size alone doesnt impact (of course there are instances where it does, but I think thats what he meant)

[Raa]

Classic Alienware m15x

 

Not using BIOS settings. Yes using keyboard.

Not until Windows is running.

Not until Windows is running.

Yes.

Yes - at about 1 inch.

 

This model of laptop has long been superceded and isn't supported, many functions rely on drivers of some sort. I don't think it works with Windows 8, haven't tried, nor do I intend to.  :laugh:

 

Dell Latitude E5440

 

Yes, both keyboard & BIOS.

Yes (Physical switch).

Not until Windows is running.

Yes.

Yes - at about 1.5 inches.

[Mouettus]

What I always do with laptops is install a clean OS, then download all the driver packages for the devices and then proceed to install the drivers from the device manager. That way, you don't get all the crap installed on the system. What you need to do is unzip the file or the exe with an extractor. Most of the time the .inf files are in there.

[tsupersonic]

What I always do with laptops is install a clean OS, then download all the driver packages for the devices and then proceed to install the drivers from the device manager. That way, you don't get all the crap installed on the system. What you need to do is unzip the file or the exe with an extractor. Most of the time the .inf files are in there.

Bingo, this is what I was trying to get at in my post. Do this, and you don't end up with 2 min. boot times or 2 GB of memory used just sitting idle. 

[Hum]

1. Yes, from keyboard -- not BIOS

 

2. Yes, from keyboard, not BIOS

 

3. No

 

4. Yes, from keyboard -- not BIOS

 

5. No -- display goes off completely

 

Asus laptop

[Mouettus]

Bingo, this is what I was trying to get at in my post. Do this, and you don't end up with 2 min. boot times or 2 GB of memory used just sitting idle. 

 

Yes. Because you know you'll need that whole 16gb of ram of yours when you'll run Chrome!!!

 

 

/troll

[chrisj1968]

Toshiba Qosmio X70

 

1 Yes

2 Yes

3 Yes

4 Yes

5 Yes

[Dot Matrix]

I'm not your buddy.

 

Firstly, extra drivers packages do impact system boot up time.

 

Secondly, extra drivers packages do impact system speed 'cause if you're low on RAM, your Windows will use your HDD more (not enough RAM for caching) and your apps or even Windows itself may even stall if you're running out of RAM (Windows will use SWAP like crazy).

 

I guess you've never opened 50+ tabs in Firefox or Chrome on a system with less than 2 gigs of RAM. Try it. And then tell me how fast you can switch between apps or tabs of your browser.

 

OK, I'm done with this topic. People with zero IT knowledge and almost no common sense make me look like I'm an idiot. I'm not ready to argue with them.

 

Please, do not reply to this topic, if you're not answering the questions in the original message. Thank you.

Unless you're still using an ancient machine, HDD swapping is rare, you really have to work to use up all 2GBs of memory. 50+ tabs? Really? No one I know uses that many. No user I support uses that many. IF you are maxing out your memory, you're better off buying more (if your laptop can handle it), or reducing your workflow to something that the laptop can handle. Start closing some of those tabs.

 

Display brightness, WiFi, Bluetooth, Power options, and internal/external display properties/drivers are all built into Windows. You can control them through various settings in the Control Panel. These drivers cause no system impact on startup, or while running. Touchpads are entirely proprietary, though Windows does include basic touchpad drivers as well.

 

Mobility Center is built into Windows. This is what it looks like by default on Windows 8.1.

 

If you want to run a OS, you need the drivers to go with it. You're causing yourself more work by disabling/uninstalling these, or by fumbling through the BIOS. I'm not entirely sure why your worried these things would stop working.

 

 

[francescob]

Display brightness, WiFi, Bluetooth, Power options, and internal/external display properties/drivers are all built into Windows.

We should warn most computers manufacturers then, apparently they still use all sort of virtual ACPI devices and ship all sort of RAM-wasting garbageware to get those features working. Custom software for display brightness, custom software for the softkeys regulating display brightness, additional WiFi control panels, the whole Widcomm/Bluesoleil/Bluewhateveritwas stacks for the dumbest bluetooth profiles, etc. You know manufacturers don't give a damn when they ship the whole Intel raid software package and the Intel management console packages on home systems with no RAID nor centralized management systems. And Microsoft as usual is always there pointing the fingers at the manufacturers while they're the sole enablers of this horrible behaviors for not having stricter standards for the Windows certified hardware.

[binesh]

Dell XPS 15 (L502X)

1) Yes

2) Yes (Fn + F2)

3) Yes (Fn + F3)

4) Yes (Fn + F1)

5) Yes