Modern server specification for virtualisation

[game_over]

I have been given the go ahead to setup a new server, We'll be using it house VMs..

 

We may end up with 1000+ users, 150-200+ Pcs serving all the usual roles DHCP, DNS, AD, WSUS, printing, virus protection deployment, MS SQL, SIMS.NET, finance systems, maybe a web server, and room for Exchange later down the line, maybe web filtering, storage needs to be scalable on demand but we're thinking a terabyte would future proof us for now.

 

Backup is not important at the moment as we'll be looking to manage this externally.

 

It's been a while since i've needed to spec a server so would love to hear some opinions on latest tech, recommended storage solution (i'm thinking 10K SAS in a RAID) .. 32-64GB RAM (overkill?) What about CPU? branding? controllers/motherboard?

Any input appreciated thanks

[Praetor]

I have been given the go ahead to setup a new server, We'll be using it house VMs..

 

We may end up with 1000+ users, 150-200+ Pcs serving all the usual roles DHCP, DNS, AD, WSUS, printing, virus protection deployment, MS SQL, SIMS.NET, finance systems, maybe a web server, and room for Exchange later down the line, maybe web filtering, storage needs to be scalable on demand but we're thinking a terabyte would future proof us for now.

 

Backup is not important at the moment as we'll be looking to manage this externally.

 

It's been a while since i've needed to spec a server so would love to hear some opinions on latest tech, recommended storage solution (i'm thinking 10K SAS in a RAID) .. 32-64GB RAM (overkill?) What about CPU? branding? controllers/motherboard?

Any input appreciated thanks

 

first and foremost: what is the VM solution you are going for? Also think HA for server and storage.

[Skiver Veteran]

Quite a difficult one to answer, as an example, one of the our Hyper V Servers in the cluster is as follows;

 

Processor: (32) 2,20 GHz Intel Xeon
Memory: 191.97GB with 6GB Reserved

Storage is 17,447GB however this is SAN storage and I can't recall the raid setup as we inherited a couple of SAN's that had some funky configuration on them

 

This host is currently hosting 37 running VM's of various configuration (single up to four CPU cores - 2 GB up to 8)

 

I think I would suggest trying to map out exactly what you need to host on here, I know you've listed a few but I'm not sure if that is all or just a select example. Then you're going to need to look at spec's for running said services and then try and fit the server around that.

 

Have you considered high availability? If these are production systems you ideally want some failover on some of them from a guest and host point of view but that will obviously depend on how much you can push the budget.

[game_over]

first and foremost: what is the VM solution you are going for? Also think HA for server and storage.

 

Don't know yet... this post was my first initial thought... having not built a server for several years i'm not familiar with best methods etc so open to any input.

 

Quite a difficult one to answer, as an example, one of the our Hyper V Servers in the cluster is as follows;

 

Processor: (32) 2,20 GHz Intel Xeon

Memory: 191.97GB with 6GB Reserved

Storage is 17,447GB however this is SAN storage and I can't recall the raid setup as we inherited a couple of SAN's that had some funky configuration on them

 

This host is currently hosting 37 running VM's of various configuration (single up to four CPU cores - 2 GB up to 8)

 

I think I would suggest trying to map out exactly what you need to host on here, I know you've listed a few but I'm not sure if that is all or just a select example. Then you're going to need to look at spec's for running said services and then try and fit the server around that.

 

Have you considered high availability? If these are production systems you ideally want some failover on some of them from a guest and host point of view but that will obviously depend on how much you can push the budget.

 

Yes sorry for the bold question, pretty much everything i stated is what it will be used for. Your server is crazy, we don't need anything like that..I think my main concern is the CPU, controllers/mobo because ram and storage is easily upgradable. SAN i think is overkill i'd be happy with 10k SAS drives that we use at the moment.

 

We currently have an Intel Xeon with 6GB ram and several SAS drives in a RAID 10. It does it's job perfectly for running MS SQL (SIMS.NET), AD, DHCP, DNS, WSUS, anti-virus deployment, file serving, intranet, 400 user accounts, 75 computers.. but we're about to expand to about double of this in the next 2 months, and within the next 12-24 months we could double that again so i think getting the minimum requirements would be a big mistake. We will also need VPN access to several machines on the network, i'm not sure if this must be considered when choosing system requirements?

[Praetor]

Don't know yet... this post was my first initial thought... having not built a server for several years i'm not familiar with best methods etc so open to any input.

 

Then stop right there, because your are putting the car in front of the horses :)

 

you must plan the VM solution first (requirements, everything that can be virtualized and what cannot be virtualized, support from vendors, IT personal that can work with that solution and so on) and then the hardware need for that solution to work out. The hardware part is the easy one, since once you know the necessary requirements for your solution it's just a matter of budget.

 

Also if you are opting for a virtualization solution then you can consider as well HA, since for a increase in price you can have high uptime and less worries (servers down, maintenance windows, etc.).

 

About the VM vendors: the top ones are VMware, Hyper-V and Citrix. All have their highs and lows, different methods for implementation, configuration, troubleshooting and management, so you must analyse the environment (is it a 100% Windows based? do you need to access your apps and files in tablets or smartphones?) and the knowledge for working with them (do you have the necessary certifications? is an outsource or internal IT that is going to implement that solution? and who is going to manage it or troubleshooting it?).

[game_over]

Then stop right there, because your are putting the car in front of the horses :)

 

you must plan the VM solution first (requirements, everything that can be virtualized and what cannot be virtualized, support from vendors, IT personal that can work with that solution and so on) and then the hardware need for that solution to work out. The hardware part is the easy one, since once you know the necessary requirements for your solution it's just a matter of budget.

 

Also if you are opting for a virtualization solution then you can consider as well HA, since for a increase in price you can have high uptime and less worries (servers down, maintenance windows, etc.).

 

About the VM vendors: the top ones are VMware, Hyper-V and Citrix. All have their highs and lows, different methods for implementation, configuration, troubleshooting and management, so you must analyse the environment (is it a 100% Windows based? do you need to access your apps and files in tablets or smartphones?) and the knowledge for working with them (do you have the necessary certifications? is an outsource or internal IT that is going to implement that solution? and who is going to manage it or troubleshooting it?).

 

We will be 100% Windows baed so i think Hyper-V is a fine solution, my opinion won't hold much merit but in my experience i don't see the need for VMWare when Hyper-V will provide everything that we need... It comes down to being able to quickly deploy and manage servers from one place... there isn't much else to throw into the mix i don't think.

[Praetor]

We will be 100% Windows baed so i think Hyper-V is a fine solution, my opinion won't hold much merit but in my experience i don't see the need for VMWare when Hyper-V will provide everything that we need... It comes down to being able to quickly deploy and manage servers from one place... there isn't much else to throw into the mix i don't think.

 

Hyper-V (Server 2012 R2) is a great product and with VMM for managing the VMs, even better. Check the licensing for your needs, since the Datacenter licence is CPU bound (not core bound), but allows for infinite number of VMs. Although VMware is more expensive, it allows more stuff and has an bigger array of partners (storage, backups, etc.) then Hyper-V, but that gap is closing by each release of Hyper-V (i like both products, so i'm not biased).

[game_over]

So i've received a quote from one supplier.

 

HP ProLiant DL380 Gen 9 rack mountable server

1 x Xeon E5-2620V3 / 2.4 GHz ( 3.2 GHz ) (6-core)

Storage Controller RAID ( SATA-600 / SAS 3.0)

Networking GigE

 

3 x  HP 8GB 1Rx4 PC4-2133P-R Kit should take it to a total of 32GB RAM with the 8 already installed.

 

4 x HP Enterprise - hard drive - 900 GB - SAS 6Gb/s

 

HP 500W FS Plat Ht Plg Pwr Supply Kit

 

Total cost ?5424 which includes 3 year 24x7 HP foundation care pack.

 

How does that sound?

 

Do I need additional Microsoft licences to run windows in a virtualised environment? I also received a quote for this:

 

WinSvrDataCtr ALNG LicSAPk OLV E 1Y Acdmc AP 2Proc

 

at ?209

[Praetor]

Do I need additional Microsoft licences to run windows in a virtualised environment? I also received a quote for this:

 

WinSvrDataCtr ALNG LicSAPk OLV E 1Y Acdmc AP 2Proc

 

at ?209

 

That's an Open Licence, normally sold to academic / non profit / governments, therefore the cheap price. Is that your case?

 

Also you need a single datacenter license for that server, but if you add more CPUs then you will need more.

About the server: it all depends the requirements of the software you use needs: IOPS, network speed, RAM requirements, CPU requirements, etc. So that server maybe be enough, maybe not. That requires a thorough test (benchmarking the software, see the vendors requirements and objections of using the software in a virtualized environment, etc.) and talks with the vendors requesting the necessary requirements their apps needs; and quite frankly, you are putting all your organization mission critical into a single server that can fail (if the mainboard fails all the organization will have to wait until HP replaces it, for example; that can take some hours or next business day); have you considered HA?

 

Honestly, there is more work to be done until you can request quotes for hardware. Unless you have done that, that it. And what about the knowledge for managing Hyper-V, do you have staff that can manage it?

[game_over]

That's an Open Licence, normally sold to academic / non profit / governments, therefore the cheap price. Is that your case?

 

We are a primary education establishment.

[Praetor]

We are a primary education establishment.

 

OK then; that's that price include the instalation and configuration of Hyper-V and the implementation of all the necessary VMs? If not then who's going to do that work?

[Xahid]

I suggest you to go for Proxmox Vertualization Environment,

its open source KVM based solution, does not required any additional resource to manage. & very easy to configure Clustering, HA, & inbuild storage.

[Praetor]

I suggest you to go for Proxmox Vertualization Environment,

its open source KVM based solution, does not required any additional resource to manage. & very easy to configure Clustering, HA, & inbuild storage.

 

KVM? really?

also their comparison chart is really outdated: Server 2012 R2 (Hyper-V) supports live backups, supports 640 CPUs cores (320 cores with Hyper-V enabled) and 64 CPU sockets; supports 4TB of RAM. Like the OP will ever need that but still...

[enroh]

OP it sounds like you are in over your head. You are saying you have not built a server in some time. You are not sure which hypervisor suits your needs. You have no disaster recovery plan or HA/failover plan for that matter by all accounts.

 

"Backup is not important at the moment as we'll be looking to manage this externally." - backup is always important. If this server dies a horrible death, what are your business continuity plans?

 

?Do you know what the current requirements of all the individual VMs is? (IOPS for example) This will help you size your host. Over provisioning is just as bad as under provisioning.

 

So many questions, so little time. You need to talk to a consultant before looking at hardware to get your requirements in order and plan your deployment first as well as your backup/failover/HA/DR needs.

 

 

Do it right the first time.

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

goodbytes - i admittedly didnt read the whole thread, but you keep mentioning 75-100 PCs. Do you mean physical PCs in a domain, or VMs?

 

If youre going to run all those servers in a virtual environment i highly recommend you choose a server w/ as much RAM as you can afford.

 

Also, as others have mentioned, you'll want to double up that purchase and secure it w/ HA.

[sc302 Veteran]

Moved to Virtualization & Cloud Services

[enroh]

goodbytes - i admittedly didnt read the whole thread, but you keep mentioning 75-100 PCs. Do you mean physical PCs in a domain, or VMs?

 

If youre going to run all those servers in a virtual environment i highly recommend you choose a server w/ as much RAM as you can afford.

 

Also, as others have mentioned, you'll want to double up that purchase and secure it w/ HA.

this is a great point - VDI requirements are different. (and this includes the licensing portion as well)

[game_over]

OP it sounds like you are in over your head. You are saying you have not built a server in some time. You are not sure which hypervisor suits your needs. You have no disaster recovery plan or HA/failover plan for that matter by all accounts.

 

"Backup is not important at the moment as we'll be looking to manage this externally." - backup is always important. If this server dies a horrible death, what are your business continuity plans?

 

?Do you know what the current requirements of all the individual VMs is? (IOPS for example) This will help you size your host. Over provisioning is just as bad as under provisioning.

 

So many questions, so little time. You need to talk to a consultant before looking at hardware to get your requirements in order and plan your deployment first as well as your backup/failover/HA/DR needs.

 

 

Do it right the first time.

 

Sorry, when i said backup is not important i didn't mean we wouldn't be backing up, i meant we are looking at that seperately... we will of course have backups in place. I am talking to consultants I am just waiting for their input, over a quick phone call someone mentioned a hybrid solution with in house blade server and Microsoft Azure servers, i'm still waiting for the logistics of this.

 

We're going with Hyper-V.

 

goodbytes - i admittedly didnt read the whole thread, but you keep mentioning 75-100 PCs. Do you mean physical PCs in a domain, or VMs?

 

If youre going to run all those servers in a virtual environment i highly recommend you choose a server w/ as much RAM as you can afford.

 

Also, as others have mentioned, you'll want to double up that purchase and secure it w/ HA.

 

PCs in a domain, i just wanted the give an idea of the size of our network.. we currently have 1 server that tasks everything. The real factor is scalability, we don't need to immediately virtualise a massive environment, but we are expecting our environment to be doubled within 2 months and could be tripled within 12-24 months... being able to deploy new servers quickly is all we need.

 

Moved to Virtualization & Cloud Services

 

thanks

[game_over]

We have our in house server sorted we are now looking at cloud backup and disaster recovery.. We will have an on-site NAS in a location as far from the server as possible, we also need an offsite backup...Microsoft Azure offers backup, site recovery and virtual networks, this seems to be the best hybrid solution, any input on this?

[game_over]

A question about hardware.

 

We have been quoted for 4 x HP Enterprise SAS drives 600Gb in a RAID10 setup, to go into a HP Pro DL380 Gen9 Server... I've always worked with HP so i'm inclined to go down this route.

 

On another quote which massively undercuts the HP server is a Dell PowerEdge R730 which suggests hard drives will come from 3 suppliers (Seagate, Hitachi or Samsung) we have no choice where it comes from but are all the same technology.

 

Both have 3 yr warranty.

 

Hard drive choice is really important, does anyone have any experience with other drives, what about the decision between HP and DELL, the specs are the same for both servers. E5-2620-V3

[enroh]

IMO as long as you have a hot spare on hand, don't worry about the drive brand. Just make sure you have at least next business day onsite support for your server so you at least get a drive out the next day :)

Again (IMO) Dell is better than HP but both aren't as good as Lenovo X Series (formerly IBM System X) though to be honest, most will all have the same hardware albeit with a different badge on front

[game_over]

IMO as long as you have a hot spare on hand, don't worry about the drive brand. Just make sure you have at least next business day onsite support for your server so you at least get a drive out the next day :)

Again (IMO) Dell is better than HP but both aren't as good as Lenovo X Series (formerly IBM System X) though to be honest, most will all have the same hardware albeit with a different badge on front

 

Ok thanks for that, i guess i was just over sold on the HP Enterprise drives and anything else didn't seem as good, we obviously need it to be as reliable as possible... We have support included in all of our options.