[UK] Problems with wiring up home network. Advice?

[Aergan]

If you go down the cabling route don't install them like this. First add a drip or run off loop so the wall does not fill with water - and this is 2014 there are cheap outside boxes that either hide that hole and allow clean dry entry or of course brick red silicone gel...

 

Work Well - Work Once

 

Steve

 

If you look, I think InsaneNutter has used red brick silicone but has been very unlucky with the air brick exploding on him whilst drilling through (which I'm sure is luck unless you laid the bricks and know their quality/composition).

 

If you think that's bad, you should see the state Sky left my outer wall in!

[metallithrax]

Thing is:

- if I go wired, there's the questions I asked in my previous 2 posts.

- if I go wireless there's the question I asked about it in the post before that.

Also with wireless, what's the chances of interference? Slim to none or quite possible? There's many wireless networks on the street that my iPhone can identify. We are also probably going to get a wireless burglar alarm system put in place instead of a wired one.

My house is basically the same layout as yours (from 1950's) and we have router positioned near the red x in your diagram.  Wireless is not too good in bedroom 2 - drops often.  Master bedroom is better.

[Technique]

Yeah I'm not overly bothered about the reception in bedroom 2. It'll be a spare bedroom/guest room.

PC room, lounge & master bedroom in that order is what I'm concerned about.

I'm (now) not against WiFi, just that if I have it then I want the PC room to be guaranteed (as much as you possibly can) maximum signal.

[+InsaneNutter MVC]

If you go down the cabling route don't install them like this. First add a drip or run off loop so the wall does not fill with water - and this is 2014 there are cheap outside boxes that either hide that hole and allow clean dry entry or of course brick red silicone gel...

 

Work Well - Work Once

 

Steve

This was done going on 8 years ago, i'm confident no water is getting in.

I shall keep your tips in mind, always good to hear tips from people more experienced in these areas.

[Defiant]

This was done going on 8 years ago, i'm confident no water is getting in.

I shall keep your tips in mind, always good to hear tips from people more experienced in these areas.

 

It was common that people drew the cable in from above without a loop or suitable entry plate/box and as a result killed the bricks or worse let water into the wall and then onto the wooden frame and beyond, Hence why there are best practises when doing work like this that should either be followed or imparted :-)

 

It was meant in a nice way. The gel used looks like it has sunk inwards and offers little or no protection. I have these in brick and work very well - can be gasgetted up to 5mm.

 

You don't want to end up like these bad boys - at least the "pair" have a drip loop but other than that this is ######!

 

 

 

Just helping out.

 

Cheers & Beers

 

Steve

[(Account no longer active)]

I'd go through the roof and down walls. It's much easier than from/around the ground up. With the proper finish, you can make it look quite professional. It's easy to remove and hide again too.

 

First you have to measure the different runs you'll need to make, from a central router to each access point.

 

Then you have to purchase cable and connectors. Always get spares. If you don't mind terminating cables to (Ethernet/'RJ45') connectors you can save money if you already have (or can borrow) the tools to do so. However if you're happy paying extra to get the job done quicker, you can purchase pre-terminated cable and back-to-back connectors (for wall plates). The trouble with pre-terminated cable though is that it only comes in pre-defined lengths, however there's no problems with leaving it curled up in the ceiling. Another issue is that you'll have to drill a larger hole to feed it through the roof.

 

Then it's just a matter of:

- drilling holes where you want to feed cable through (as close as possible to the edge between the ceiling and wall); check if any mains cabling is present using a non-contact voltage detector first; drilling a pilot hole may be wise also

- feeding cable through

- cutting and mounting the ducting to the wall (double sided tape will do)

- feeding the cable through that also

- terminating cables where the router is (if not already done)

- mounting wall plates in each of the rooms/access points and terminating/connecting to those

- final testing

 

From the above, you should be able to see that a ladder, battery drill, standard/masonry drill bit set, medium/large size round file (that will fit into a 10mm hole or so), non-contact voltage detector, double-sided tape and a few lengths of cable ducting will be what's required (plus cable, connectors, wall plates and other mounting hardware of course).

 

Everything that's required can be purchase through eBay and your local hardware store.

 

If you're not confident with going up and down ladder, or working with tools, I wouldn't attempt the above without assistance. With two people you'll probably get the job done twice as fast.

 

Feeding the cable through double walls (to hide them) would look even better, but laying out rooms based on the location of a wall plate doesn't offer much flexibility.

 

Whatever you do, plan carefully. There should be plenty of tutorials on YouTube also.

[Technique]

I'd go through the roof and down walls. It's much easier than from/around the ground up. With the proper finish, you can make it look quite professional. It's easy to remove and hide again too.

 

I can't actually go from the roof. The master socket would have to be in one of the rooms listed, below the roof.

 

I guess i could have the master socket in the PC room, although i'd rather not & it'd be a strange place to locate it.

 

What i am leaning towards is drilling down from the PC room, feeding a cat5e cable to the hall below. Mounting a single/double cat5e socket on the skirting board (depending on the answer to the question regarding this in an earlier post i made) & then when we get the router, connecting the hall end of the cable to it.

 

 

 

I have read about "good quality" cable. What actually is "good quality"? I bought some cable when i did the home network at my mums & when connecting the ends, they pull out with little force, even though i clamped them down reasonably firmly.

 

But yeah i have the tools for the job left over from doing that. Punch down tool, wire cutters, crimp tool.

 

 

EDIT: Is anyone able to answer my question regards the double cat5e socket & wireless access points? Much appreciated.

[An_Englishman]

 

I have read about "good quality" cable. What actually is "good quality"? I bought some cable when i did the home network at my mums & when connecting the ends, they pull out with little force, even though i clamped them down reasonably firmly.

 

I found this forum post quite useful and it may explain why the cable you purchased wasn't great quality.

 

Also, if you purchase from that site you know it's going to be good quality cable.

 

Cat5-e will deffinitely suit your purposes. You can email them for a custom length too. :)

[Technique]

Budman

 

I really liked that flying saucer AP you posted on another thread & i've been looking how i could install it. I thought it drew its power from the router.

 

But then i googled & found this image:

 

Ok this is for a triple, but that aside - it comes with a power cord. I didn't know it needed to be plugged in to the mains.

 

 

 

Would you suggest an AP that could sit on the PC desk? While this may not be the ideal location, would it be a bad idea/likely not work?

 

One i remember from some time ago getting good reviews is the ASUS RT-N56

 

I'd like something discreet, not taking up too much room, while good quality though.

 

 

I see there is an adapter with the flying saucer one. A POE adapter. I'm absolutely shattered tonight so i'm struggling to take this in but i don't understand how you need an adapter requiring mains power if the access point is to be powered over ethernet. It doesn't make sense to me.

 

I was hoping to just run a cat6 from the junction box to the AP mounted on the wall & that's the end of story. I didn't know i'd need to trail off another wire for a power source/adapter.

 

Could you point me in the right direction here please?

[tonyjr]

From the green X, to the pc room, drill upwards through the coving and then the plasterboard above it. Straighten a metal coat hangar , poke it through the hole until it hits the floorboards above and wedge it in. Tape the end of the cable to the bottom of the straightened coat hanger. Go upstairs, take the carpet up in the corner above where you drilled and take one of the boards up. Find the coat ha get and pull your cable through. Drill a hole for the cable into the board that you pulled up and put it through it. Screw the board down, be careful of cables and pipes. Cut a slit in the carpet where it goes over the hole in the board. Bash the carpet back onto the rods and tuck it under the skirting again with a butter knife. There is your basic cable in the corner. Use trunking downstairs to hide the cable going up. A bit of tetrion filler to fix the coving and some a 'tester' pot of emulsion to touch the paint in after. Bosh.

[+BudMan MVC]

You have to inject the power into the ethernet, this can be done anywhere along the path. So near the router, or you could if you want get a POE switch and then you don't need to inject.

its like this

Again this injector can be anywhere along the path, near the router, nearer the AP or somewhere in the middle.

Or in case of the unifi, if you had their poe router or switch then you don't need to use the injector.

router poe

http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax/edgerouter-poe/

switch poe

http://www.ubnt.com/accessories/toughswitch/

But if your only going to have 1 or a few poe AP, then the injectors work just fine. So for mine the injector is in my computer room right after 1 ft patch cable from the switch, then the longer cable runs up into the wall and into the attic and my AP is in the ceiling in the hall way, approx center of the house.

[Dick Montage]

Powerline - Don't have the time to be installing extra sockets in the house to compensate for sockets being taken up by these things.

 

Because there's no such thing as passthrough, right?

[Technique]

Budman - that makes more sense. I'll post back tonight when I'm not using my limited mobile data on a work break.

Nik l - everything is easy when you know what is on the market, the names for these things etc etc. Unfortunately I don't, which is why I'm coming to more knowledgable folk such as yourselves to steer me in the right direction.

Tonyjr - that's the approach I'm taking :) although since it's an old house, there's no plasterboard & the walls are solid :)

[Technique]

Right i want to make sure i've got this right

 

I believe i need to use my ISPs router, so the router you linked to i guess would be out of the question, which leaves us with the switch.

 

So is this setup going to work....

 

 

Although having just spent hours on that drawing ;) Would this setup be the same, but better...

 

 

As the second drawing would do away with the need to cut the end of the cat6 cable as it could plug straight in to the switch.

 

I don't know if i NEED to run 2 cables from the router or not. I think so?

 

 

 

I think i've understood it well & both of those diagrams would work but i'd just like you to confirm that i have & would you agree that the second one is the best?

[tonyjr]

Budman - that makes more sense. I'll post back tonight when I'm not using my limited mobile data on a work break.

Nik l - everything is easy when you know what is on the market, the names for these things etc etc. Unfortunately I don't, which is why I'm coming to more knowledgable folk such as yourselves to steer me in the right direction.

Tonyjr - that's the approach I'm taking :) although since it's an old house, there's no plasterboard & the walls are solid :)

Apologies - I meant to say the plasterboard ceiling/ceiling above the coving.

[tonyjr]

Right i want to make sure i've got this right

 

I believe i need to use my ISPs router, so the router you linked to i guess would be out of the question, which leaves us with the switch.

 

So is this setup going to work....

 

 

Although having just spent hours on that drawing ;) Would this setup be the same, but better...

 

 

As the second drawing would do away with the need to cut the end of the cat6 cable as it could plug straight in to the switch.

 

I don't know if i NEED to run 2 cables from the router or not. I think so?

 

 

 

I think i've understood it well & both of those diagrams would work but i'd just like you to confirm that i have & would you agree that the second one is the best?

 

Your second diagram will work best, with allowance for expansion. You only need one cable from your router to the 802.3af PoE switch. There are special converters, incase the AP does not accept 802.3af power, but will accept passive PoE. There are also other converters for non-PoE devices, so you are pretty much covered.

 

I personally have a GS110TP, which does the job nicely for PoE for APs, IP Phones and two routers. Most likely overkill for your setup, but any old gigabit PoE switch should do (802.3af or 802.3at).

 

TonyJr

[Technique]

That's perfect then. Thanks. I'm shockingly awful at electronics so excuse me when I say I believe these thing are a powered by 24v? Yet mains power is 240v so how does that work? Is that a problem? Actually, is it 230v in the UK? I can't remember. 240v I thought.

At least I don't need to drill a big hole now. :)

[An_Englishman]

I believe i need to use my ISPs router, so the router you linked to i guess would be out of the question, which leaves us with the switch.

 

Who is your ISP?

[+BudMan MVC]

I would verify if not going to use a unifi poe switch or injector.. If what your using provides the right power, the unifi stuff is passive poe, but different standards depending on the device. The AC access point is 802.3at type 2 POE+, while the Pro model is 802.3af or 802.3at type 1, which can get confusing if your not this sort of stuff.

Keep in simple I would suggest use the injector that came with device, or buy poe switch from them, etc. Since you clearly don't already have one. As to using the router - who says you would have to use isp router. This would never be the case.. You might need to use a modem that supports the standards they are using. But you should always be able to bring your own hardware.

You can always put your router behind their equipment and have their equipment in bridge mode so your router gets public, or even double nat where you put your router in dmz of their router.. You can ALWAYS use your own router..

If your using a switch, then only 1 cable would be required - unless you wanted to run lagg.. But I highly doubt some isp router support that anyway.

[Technique]

Ahh my head is spinning now :lol: I'll have to have a look at that tonight.

I'm not interested in all that fancy stuff if that helps? All I want is to power my PC via Ethernet cable & have a wireless access point upstairs. Anything fancy beyond this is no good to me.

As for ISP - I've signed up for that BT Infinity deal. You're going to tell me I've been wrongly informed & I can use other modem/routers eh? If so will BT provide the settings to make this happen & do I need to buy a specific type router with it being fibre broadband instead of standard (ADSL?) broadband?

[+BudMan MVC]

"All I want is to power my PC "

I think your confused or typo?? I have never heard of powering a PC via POE?? Maybe you could do that with some sort of wyse thin client sort of device as your PC. POE is normally used for Phones and or AP sort of devices. Never head of powering a PC..

I highly doubt your fiber connects into your modem - there should be a ethernet handoff to your devices.

Again - even if they say you have to use their device. It has to hand off via ethernet and give you an IP be it public or private. You can put router of your choice connected to that. And on their device if they hand you a private than put your router in the dmz setting so all traffic gets sent to your routers wan IP. Now you use your router to control forwarding. If their device has wifi, turn it off and use whatever AP or wifi router you want.

I don't know about UK, but here in the states you can always bring your own "modem" for any cable connection. Same goes for ADSL connection you can bring your own gateway/modem for that as well. Now they might have an approved list of equipment, etc.. example http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/

They charge you a rental fee here in the US that is like $7 a month.. Sorry but you can F off ;) I can by my own modem, and at your 7$ a month will be saving money after the 10th month for sure. I have had my SB6120 modem since early 2010, so like 4 years easy. Got it for 90$ back then.. So easy for sure $250 on the plus side for bringing my own equipment vs paying their rental fees.

[Technique]

Sorry I knew i'd phrased it wrong but I was running out of time in my break.

All I want to do is basically connect my PC to the internet via cable (as opposed to wireless) & connect up the AP.

I think the supplied hardware from ISP is a modem/router (they call it a hub) but I'm not fussy about which I use.

I emailed the company of the flying saucer (I really should remember it's name) & they linked me a couple .pdf's.

It made it seem like the AP has to be Ethernet connected to this supplied adapter which in turn has to be ADSL connected to your modem/router/hub. That bit is the problem since I won't have cable long enough to stretch that far & I've ran out of time to get any in before the carpets are fitted.

The way you described it (& my 2nd diagram) makes it sound a doddle but it's a little different to how the company says it should be connected up.

[+BudMan MVC]

Yes if you use a poe injector one side is connected to your switch/router - ie your network as some point be it your actual router or a switch, and at some point with the cable coming from your network connected to the POE injector has to have power, then another run from that to your AP.. The lengths on each side don't really matter.

so you have say this

router ------- switch -1m ethernet- poe -- 20m ethernet - ap

Or you could have

router -20m ethernet-poe -1m etherent- ap

or that could be reversed.. or whatever combinations you need to get your ap connected to your network with the poe injector somewhere between. But the run from either switch or switch port on router to the ap is where you put the injector. Unless of course using a poe switch/router then you don't need the injector. The ap just need to be connected directly to that switch or router, you would not want a non poe switch in between.

[Technique]

Right, let's get cracking. These are the links they gave:

 

Comparison of models: http://dl.ubnt.com/datasheets/unifi/UniFi_AP_DS.pdf At this point i should state that i really don't care which model i get so long as it does the job.

 

I see the UAP-AC & UAP-PRO have entries under 802.3af & 802.3at. Again, i really don't care which model i buy so long as it does the job. I'm thinking UAP-PRO?

 

Quick start guide on how it may be powered: http://dl.ubnt.com/guides/UniFi/UniFi_AP_QSG.pdf

 

I should also say i don't mind paying out for the TOUGHSwitch. If anything i think it's going to make things easier?

 

Oh actually i've just had a light bulb moment. I was about to break open paint again but i've got it i think.

 

 

 

Which presents the question - why would you take the switch over the adapter & vice versa?

 

I'm thinking with the adapter i can't hard wire my PC to the network, yet with the switch i can.

 

If that's the case then the switch would suit me best.

[DaveLegg Developer]

For BT Infinity if you want to get your own modem or mode/router device, you need one that supports VDSL, other than that, it's basically up to you. I have a few friends on BT's fibre network, and none of them are using the ISP's provided hardware, so it's definitely do-able.