[UK] Problems with wiring up home network. Advice?

[Technique]

Thanks for that.

 

What's the dimensions of their hub5 or whatever it's called as i'm wondering if it'll sit on my window sill.

 

While on that topic, is being on a windowsill & therefore direct sunlight - a bad thing? As where i want it, there's nowhere else really for it to sit, unless i buy a mini table but then the table is taking up needless floor space.

[mykola]

I get my BT Infinity through a wholesale provider, the BT guy installed this 

That plugs into the wall socket then I run a CAT6 cable into my router. 

BT provide a "Home Hub" which is a modem/router combined so that would just live downstairs 

If you wanted to separate the modem and router then it looks like you can buy your own modem here (don't know much about the site was the first link that popped up)

home hub 5 Weight & dimensions * 290 (g) (+ PSU 176g) * 116 high x 236 wide x 31 deep (mm)

[+Fahim S. MVC]

For BT Infinity if you want to get your own modem or mode/router device, you need one that supports VDSL, other than that, it's basically up to you. I have a few friends on BT's fibre network, and none of them are using the ISP's provided hardware, so it's definitely do-able.

 

That isn't true.  They provide a modem and a router these days.  You only really have to replace the router, something that is very easy to do, but the modem can be left well alone (and probably should be, it's unlikely that you'll find a better modem).  You could get an integrated VSDL modem/router device (I think Buffalo make one).

[+BudMan MVC]

You would normally want the poe switch if your going to have more than 1 that you need POE for, or you just don't like having the injector sitting out.. Maybe you only have 1 plug in the area like you mentioned and want a few ports for other devices. So if you had switch and poe injector you have to have 2 power plugs. If you have a POE switch only the one power plug. The poe switch is also just a normal switch as well, so your PC can plug into it and just not use poe.

All comes down to your needs and requirements. Lets say you are going to run 3 different AP to different areas of the house - might make more sense to just use the switch vs having all those injectors about ;)

If pro is in your budget I would yes go for the PRO vs the the $70 entry level one. If you have AC devices and or thinking about getting them sometime in the near future.. you might want to look at that one. Have seen some reports of users having issues with the AC model, I have nothing but love for it!! It rocks and the limited testing I have done with AC works fine, I don't have any mobile AC devices to play with - only the PC AC card, and a usb AC stick I bought to just play and test with AC. With speed tests I have seen 500mbps real world without much issue using the asus PCE-AC68, and its not even in a good position.

Comes down to your budget, if all you have is N devices or are fine with N.. What your internet speed going to be? What are you devices? If all you have is 1x1 or 2x2 N mobile devices not going do much having AC if not going to even use it.

As to the adapter and your PC.. Yeah that injector is just for the AP that is all. if your in the market for a switch in that location anyway, then sure getting the poe switch you don't have to buy another switch, and now you wont have that injector setting out. So that might be a good purchase.

[Technique]

I figured a switch would be more ideal because looking at page 13 on the 2nd .pdf i understand the following....

 

Cable from AP to PoE adapter

Cable from Adapter to modem/router/hub

Power cable from adapter to mains power

 

That is then all the ports occupied on the adapter. The cable from the modem/router/hub has also been given a 'home'.

 

This is all great but it presents the problem .......... what does the PC connect in to? It'd require a second wire running from the modem/router/hub which i'd rather avoid.

 

 

Installation of the TOUGHswitch (as on page 12) would (again, on my understanding....)

 

Cable from modem/router/hub to switch

Cable from switch to AP

Cable from switch to PC

The end.

 

So everything is cabled that needs to be cabled. I understand the switch can be wall mounted so i can do this behind the PC desk & everything can be looking neat & tidy - job done.

 

 

Assuming i've understood that correctly.

 

 

mykola (& others) - to be honest, while the BT hub may not be the most attractive thing to look at, i think i would just use it. It'll come pre-loaded with the settings required. I've read that it isn't too bad (compared to say Sky's version). So since it'll be doing the job, there's little to no point that i can see in spending near or over ?100 on another router.

[+Fahim S. MVC]

mykola (& others) - to be honest, while the BT hub may not be the most attractive thing to look at, i think i would just use it. It'll come pre-loaded with the settings required. I've read that it isn't too bad (compared to say Sky's version). So since it'll be doing the job, there's little to no point that i can see in spending near or over ?100 on another router.

 

I have never used a HH5, I have several HH3s in my house, and I can say that every ISP supplied device has been an absolutely useless.  Get yourself something better - they tend to be more expensive and higher rated for good reason...

[Dick Montage]

Nik l - everything is easy when you know what is on the market, the names for these things etc etc. Unfortunately I don't, which is why I'm coming to more knowledgable folk such as yourselves to steer me in the right direction. 

 

Given.  Just don't write things off without investigating.  You can solve issues so easily :)

[Technique]

I have never used a HH5, I have several HH3s in my house, and I can say that every ISP supplied device has been an absolutely useless.  Get yourself something better - they tend to be more expensive and higher rated for good reason...

Out of interest, what would an alternative give me that the 5 can't?

 

I'm going to show my lack of knowledge here, but it's supposed to dish out the internet to the house & emit a wireless signal.

 

If it can do those two basic things, then what's the problem? If it can't do either of those things then it should be seen as faulty & replaced.

 

I just wonder what an alternative could provide that i need that the supplied one can't?

[+BudMan MVC]

Yes tech as I went over the injector is just for the AP, if you have other devices you would need a switch.. So yes if you run wire to this room, put in a poe switch you can then connect a pc to this switch (will need its own power) and then the AP can draw power from the switch.

So you would need a power plug for the switch, and one for your pc.

This would be correct

Cable from modem/router/hub to switch

Cable from switch to AP

Cable from switch to PC

The end.

[Technique]

It took a while but the lightbulb came in in he end ;) lol

I'm still interested in what a different modem/router/hub could give me that I need which the ISP supplied one can't.

[+Fahim S. MVC]

Out of interest, what would an alternative give me that the 5 can't?

 

I'm going to show my lack of knowledge here, but it's supposed to dish out the internet to the house & emit a wireless signal.

 

If it can do those two basic things, then what's the problem? If it can't do either of those things then it should be seen as faulty & replaced.

 

I just wonder what an alternative could provide that i need that the supplied one can't?

 

On paper the HomeHub 5 sounds competent from a feature point of view.

 

However, my experience is that the customisation of the software makes the router less robust, as the ISP hides certain options and clearly doesn't test the rest.  The HomeHub 3 didn't like one of the things I did to it, either changing its default IP range, changing the SSID/channel configuration, changing the DHCP scope, reserving IP addresses for those devices that had to use DHCP, or putting DNS entries in for statically addressed addressed, and used to stop providing internet access every couple of days requiring a soft reset.  Admittedly, Joe Average doesn't change stuff like this and therefore doesn't experience the same problems.

 

I had the router replaced twice, performed numerous firmware upgrades/downgrades and continue to suffer from the same issues.  I now use the HH3's I have as access points but they still crash regularly - a lot less than when I was using one as a router.

 

My experience is that the highly rated manufacturer branded routers don't suffer from the same problems. The real step up is router firmware such as DD-WRT, OpenWRT or Tomato which ISP routers almost never accept.  The step even further up is to use a Linux/BSD based router/firewall (I have one of these - it has never crashed).

 

Given my reliance on internet connectivity, I don't want to have to get out of bed to reset my router.

[+BudMan MVC]

"I now use the HH3's I have as access points but they still crash regularly"

While on the other side of the fence

I have not had to do anything to this access point in over a month - and only reason its not higher is updated it firmware from 3.2.5 to 3.2.7, fairly sure that uptime will continue to grow until I the next update.

Fahim makes great points.. And the points about lock down and removing features is right on point, your never going to find the feature set in some isp provided device.. And they prob going to charge you for the privilege of using it some rate that makes them money in a few months. They buy the devices by the truckload getting serious discounts and then rent them to you at 4x the rate is should prob be, etc..

[Sir Topham Hatt]

Changing a single socket to a double one isn't difficult and shouldn't cost the earth for an electrician to do it.

 

I have a wire going from downstairs at the front of the house to upstairs at the back.

Mine goes up the corner of the chimney breast, but when in the room, it's sort of hidden round the corner of the chimney bricks sticking out.  Luckily, there is a dado rail that goes round the room about a third from the ceiling.  It just so happens a network cable will fit neatly in the ridge at the top so it's hidden.

It goes out the corner of the room, which isn't really visible as there's a bookcase right next to it.  Through the hallway above the door.  The holes look a little bigger here but again, not something you would notice unless you're looking for it.

It then goes into the dining room in the top corner, and straight away up into the ceiling.  I lifted a floorboard in the room above to grab it out and then it just follows the carpet on the edge (tucked under) to the PC.

 

A little messy, a little hard work but it's the best it can be :)

 

However, if I knew about powerline adaptors, I would have just used them instead!

[+Fahim S. MVC]

I have not had to do anything to this access point in over a month - and only reason its not higher is updated it firmware from 3.2.5 to 3.2.7, fairly sure that uptime will continue to grow until I the next update.

Fahim makes great points.. And the points about lock down and removing features is right on point, your never going to find the feature set in some isp provided device.. And they prob going to charge you for the privilege of using it some rate that makes them money in a few months. They buy the devices by the truckload getting serious discounts and then rent them to you at 4x the rate is should prob be, etc..

 

My uptime figure on my router only resets when I have to update the firmware, or apply patches to the XenServer it lives on.

 

In fairness, ISPs in the UK don't rent routers to customers, they give devices to the customers.  I always found that really weird about services in the US.

[Technique]

I used a few drill bits on a block of wood to test for a hole to thread the cat6 through.

 

The biggest standard bit i have is not big enough but one of these (not sure if the number on this pic is accurate, i'm just using it for illustration purposes)

 

 

They cut a hole which is just big enough for the connector end & obviously too big for the cable

 

Would you use these bits on a ceiling? & then what would you fill the hole with? Just some caulk perhaps?

[An_Englishman]

In fairness, ISPs in the UK don't rent routers to customers, they give devices to the customers.  I always found that really weird about services in the US.

 

Yes but if a customer's router/modem breaks in the UK, with most ISPs you have a hard time getting another one out of them for free; as I'm sure you've already come across this problem.

 

Sky forbid customers in their TOS to use their own equipment. I am using my own equipment but when I report a line fault, such as crackling on the line, I need to plug back in their crappy router otherwise I will be billed for the BT OR technician coming out.

 

I remember when I first went with Sky, about a year down the line the router started experiencing problems with the wireless. They tried to charge me ?50 to replace it. Only when I was trying to cancel with them they offered me a new one FOC.

[mcloum]

I say UK because some times people link up to products that aren't available in the UK or whatever.

 

Come January we will be set to move in to our house & as far as the networking goes, i want a wired setup. That is not powerline adapters.

 

I think the router will be located in the hall if we can get the master socket moved (else it'd have to be living room). I can run a cable from the hall up the stairs & across the landing no problem. I'd just tuck it under the carpet i guess (unless you can suggest something better?).

 

The problem for me comes in getting it in to another room.

 

Once i run it across the landing i get to the door of the room it needs to go in to. The door is in the way & the door thresh is in the way.

 

In case any non-UK folk are able to help (everyone is welcome to) then i don't know if you call it something different in your country so this is what i'm referring to: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=door+thresh&client=firefox-a&hs=2DZ&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&channel=sb&biw=1920&bih=946&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=ktNrVODtJdPeaOWTgZgM&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ

 

Ideally i would have an RJ45 socket on the skirting (i know Americans call this baseboard) behind where the PC desk will go & it'd wire in to the back of that & i'd then have a mini cable from the PC to this socket.

 

How would you get it in to the room without doing things like lifting floorboards & drilling walls etc?

 

 

Oh & if it matters then in approx. 3 weeks there will be new carpet fitted in the room it's going IN. The stairs & landing carpet etc will be renewed next year some time.

 

Many thanks to anyone who can assist.

 

Im with you on this, wired all the way. Had numerous problems with WiFi especially when within close proximity to your neighbours who all share the same WiFi frequency. I was lucky in the fact my house was still being built when we bought it so i got Cat5 throughout the house all running back to the garage. I do intended on having WiFi for the phones and tablets in the house but anything desktop/media related will be hard wired. Its the only way in my eyes.

[richardsim7]

I'm not sure it's been mentioned but with those UniFi APs you can't just use any PoE switch to power them, they're not 48V, they're 24V, which is a pain in the ass

 

You either have to use the injector or buy their own brand of PoE switches

[+BudMan MVC]

Yeah its been mentioned, but you can use any poe switch that supports the standard they use, already went over the standards they support on the AC and Pro models, which is standard - its the pro and lr models that are not standard poe

[+Fahim S. MVC]

Yes but if a customer's router/modem breaks in the UK, with most ISPs you have a hard time getting another one out of them for free; as I'm sure you've already come across this problem.

 

Sky forbid customers in their TOS to use their own equipment. I am using my own equipment but when I report a line fault, such as crackling on the line, I need to plug back in their crappy router otherwise I will be billed for the BT OR technician coming out.

 

I remember when I first went with Sky, about a year down the line the router started experiencing problems with the wireless. They tried to charge me ?50 to replace it. Only when I was trying to cancel with them they offered me a new one FOC.

 

The fact that you can't use your own equipment according the ToS is the one thing that keeps me away from Sky.  It's a real shame as being a TV customer of theirs, it would be much cheaper.  The small concession to using BT is that I get BT Sport for free, which I would have to otherwise pay for.

 

I have had several equipment replacements from both Sky and BT - they've always threatened to charge and demanded I send the old equipment back.  I've never been charged, not have I ever sent anything back.

[dragon2611]

The fact that you can't use your own equipment according the ToS is the one thing that keeps me away from Sky.  It's a real shame as being a TV customer of theirs, it would be much cheaper.  The small concession to using BT is that I get BT Sport for free, which I would have to otherwise pay for.

 

I have had several equipment replacements from both Sky and BT - they've always threatened to charge and demanded I send the old equipment back.  I've never been charged, not have I ever sent anything back.

 

I've never known them actually enforce that clause in the TOS, just don't go calling support complaining it's not working before you plug their router back in.  I had my edgerouter connecting to my Sky FTTC by sending the credentials from their router in DHCP option 61 and they never said anything about it.  

Also I spotted the Cisco WAP371's earlier at a surprisingly low price, would be interesting to see how they compare with the UAP-AC (Which my past experience of was the software was a bit buggy)

[+BudMan MVC]

Checking I see that wap371 for 199$ on amazon - yeah that seems like a good price.. From a quick look, seems to support more features than the unifi for sure. Looks like 16 ssids per radio, and management vlan where the AC has to be untagged for management. It is 3x3, looks like supports band steering and wireless uplinks that the unifi does not do yet.

Other than reporting clients and their use - not sure on that side have not looked that deep yet. But yeah that would most likely be a great choice..

[Technique]

Well it's started - we're having a wall mounted AP for sure after the work i've put in today!! :)

 

Drilled through the ceiling. Routed the wire that will go from the router/modem/hub to the switch ........ AND .......... i really wish i hadn't bought 20mtrs of cable!!!!! I bought extra in case i ever needed to pull cable through & re-position but 20mtr was a horror to get under the floorboards without lifting them all up.

 

Time was getting late so i've not finished the routing for the AP yet.I'm undecided on where to route it.

 

Best location would be another carpet up & out in to the hall way but i'd need to drill holes through god knows how many joists & the carpet fitters are at the house at 9:30am.

 

Another location would be in the same room as the PC but on the wall that separates the master bedroom. I'll run along the floorboard (underneath) & drill a hole to pull it through, then run it along the grip rods & up the corner of the room mounting it in the top corner of the room near the door (which is only like 2mtrs from the ideal location anyway - except instead of it being on the landing/hallway it'll be in a room of its own).

 

So up early to finish the job.

 

Annoyingly i forgot to take my cable tester with me to see if it works.

[Technique]

I've had a thought about this & i don't want to be close-minded before i purchase.

 

I was going to buy one of the UniFi models, probably the (UAP-PRO)

 

http://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap/

 

But you mentioned recently Budman a Cisco model http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/wireless/access-points/index.html

 

What would be more suited to me though?

 

1) Has to be wall mounted since i've now put the cables in place.

2) I'm not interested in something all singing all dancing with a load of features that i'll never use. All i want is for it to provide a better wifi signal upstairs than if i didn't have a wireless AP in place at all.

3) I currently have 1 wire to the PC room which WAS going to go into the UniFi ToughSwitch. From this a cable to the PC & a cable to the wireless AP with the switch being powered by the mains. If i can't do a similar setup with the Cisco then it rules it out.

 

 

Is either just as good as the other in this situation for me or is one better? If so, why?

 

Thanks.

[+BudMan MVC]

Well the cisco from docs has more features.. But it doesn't have controller, its just a standalone device. While the unifi doesn't need the controller it does give some great info to what your clients are doing for bandwidth, etc.. Are you planning on running the controller? Or do you just want more of stand on its own AP?

The wap371 is also ceiling mount and poe so your good there. They are about the same price point from what I can see.. I am not sure if the wap371 comes with the power injector? I know the unifi has one.

I would say buy both, and send the one back you don't like as much ;)

From a spec point they are really close, 3x3 - the cisco only has 1 port while the AP has 2 so you could daisy chain another device off of it - but since going to be in the ceiling highly doubt that, and doesn't carry poe so you couldn't really add another AP off of that connection.

Its a tough call to be honest, I can tell you on amazon the wap371 has ###### reviews while the unifi pro has 4.5 stars with 93 reviews.