uk School marked down by Ofsted for being 'too white'

[DocM]

Race is a social concept, not a biological one, with a fungible definition. Just another control lever used to categorize, divide, control and issue preference. We need to get over it.

[theyarecomingforyou]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq5dNcrHE8w

That does not in any way invalidate what I posted. Further, Stephen Fry is a hypocrite.

[Argi]

The UK 's Office for Standards in Education, Children's Services and Skills (OfSTED), a govt. agency so if they get on the stupid train it matters.

 

Ah, I see.  I'm all for government standards on education (we'll disagree on that) but I don't think they should be making comments on the students themselves.

[FloatingFatMan]

There's no such thing as "their" country. The UK doesn't belong to any particular race. Even those of white heritage have a diverse lineage - for instance, my family tree can be traced back to Scandinavia. What you posted is extremely narrow-minded and offensive.  :crazy:

 

Oh be quiet, you silly person, or I'll start going on about your psychotic raping & pillaging forebears.

 

The UK absolutely IS historically white.  It was settled by white Europeans thousands of years ago, and has always had a majority white population.  Ofsted are being a bunch of politically correct bumboys over this.

[theyarecomingforyou]

Oh be quiet, you silly person, or I'll start going on about your psychotic raping & pillaging forebears.

 

The UK absolutely IS historically white.  It was settled by white Europeans thousands of years ago, and has always had a majority white population.  Ofsted are being a bunch of politically correct bumboys over this.

The UK doesn't belong to any race. I'm not disputing that the UK is predominantly white but that's not the issue here. What we're talking about is a school that failed to adequately teach about cultural diversity, which is important for social cohesion. Ofsted highlighted the issue and the school is taking steps to address it.

 

This is just more right-wing race-baiting by The Telegraph, as there is absolutely no implication that the school was marked down for being 'too white'. There is no way that the tone would have been the same had we been talking about a predominantly black / Asian school not teaching about cultural diversity.

[FloatingFatMan]

How the hell are they going to get kids of other ethnicities in when there aren't any in the area?

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Wonder if faith schools get marked down for being "too religious".

[Torolol]

... What we're talking about is a school that failed to adequately teach about cultural diversity, which is important for social cohesion. Ofsted highlighted the issue and the school is ...

Teaching is one thing, but reports said:

 

 

... downgraded for limiting pupils? ?first-hand experience? of modern society.

... creating opportunities for them to have first-hand interaction with their counterparts from different backgrounds beyond the immediate vicinity.?

you see, ofsted demand 1st-hand interactions and not just what the teacher lesson about cultural diversity.

[Anibal P]

Wonder if faith schools get marked down for being "too religious".

 

Only if Christian

[+LogicalApex MVC]

I'm not sure what they complaint is about. Diversity is a factor that is often uses to evaluate schools, companies, and etc...

 

I assume the school was ranked on more than just diversity. If there is nothing that they can do to enhance their diversity then this is a category they won't succeed in. We can't be the best at everything...

 

In the US we went through this in the 1970's with court ordered forced school bussing to enforce school integration.

They'd actually pick up kids in one district and ship them to another district to achieve some theoretical "racial balance," not infrequently a trip of 20-30 miles.

The kids were exhausted by the commute, grades suffered and when parents protested (loudly!) they were called racists, bigots etc. :whistle:

Uh what... Very nice way of belittling the serious issues that were contested in Brown vs Board of Education.

 

The Federal Government didn't bus kids to force some sort of "racial balance" they forced bussed kids to ensure that they had access to an equal education. Since White schools were given FAR more resources than non-white schools this was the best solution in the interim. Do you see forced busing today? No, the stop gap is no longer needed.

 

Don't act ignorant and attempt to belittle a serious issue.

[theyarecomingforyou]

 

you see, ofsted demand 1st-hand interactions and not just what the teacher lesson about cultural diversity.

How the hell are they going to get kids of other ethnicities in when there aren't any in the area?

Through school trips, guest speakers, student exchange programmes, etc. It's hard to achieve social cohesion if students aren't exposed to other cultures first-hand.

 

Wonder if faith schools get marked down for being "too religious".

Yes, if they aren't making students aware of other cultures.

[FloatingFatMan]

Through school trips, guest speakers, student exchange programmes, etc. It's hard to achieve social cohesion if students aren't exposed to other cultures first-hand.

 

School trips are paid for by parents, so that's not likely to happen. We don't generally DO exchange programs much in the UK except in the summer when they're foreign exchanges, and as for guest speakers, schools already do that where they can, but again, those are rarely free.

[theyarecomingforyou]

School trips are paid for by parents, so that's not likely to happen. We don't generally DO exchange programs much in the UK except in the summer when they're foreign exchanges, and as for guest speakers, schools already do that where they can, but again, those are rarely free.

In case you didn't read the article, the school in question is attempting to strike up a relationship with an inner city school to improve cultural diversity. At the end of the day Ofsted highlighted an issue and the school has sought to address it. Job done.

[FloatingFatMan]

In case you didn't read the article, the school in question is attempting to strike up a relationship with an inner city school to improve cultural diversity. At the end of the day Ofsted highlighted an issue and the school has sought to address it. Job done.

 

Yes, I read it. It's STILL completely unnecessary and they're just "punishing" the school for no bloody reason other than stupid political correctness.

[DocM]

I'm not sure what they complaint is about. Diversity is a factor that is often uses to evaluate schools, companies, and etc...

I assume the school was ranked on more than just diversity. If there is nothing that they can do to enhance their diversity then this is a category they won't succeed in. We can't be the best at everything...

Uh what... Very nice way of belittling the serious issues that were contested in Brown vs Board of Education.

The Federal Government didn't bus kids to force some sort of "racial balance" they forced bussed kids to ensure that they had access to an equal education. Since White schools were given FAR more resources than non-white schools this was the best solution in the interim. Do you see forced busing today? No, the stop gap is no longer needed.

Don't act ignorant and attempt to belittle a serious issue.

I'm not ignorant, and nice ad hom. Very cute. FYI I lived it with our youngest kids, and I'm not belittling Brown v. Board of Education. It was important.

I'm belittling the stupidity of Swann v. Charlotte-Mecklenburg Board of Education which crafted a solution (busing) that in many locales created more problems than it solved. The cure that killed the patient by causing even more social strife. Can you imagine another issue that could make, of all people, George Wallace a viable Democrat candidate for President? Busing did.

And YES, contrary to your contention it WAS done to achieve racial mixing. Swann's primary holding was that busing was an appropriate remedy for the problem of racial imbalance in schools. Dunno how you missed that, or did you even know anout Swann?

I would note that busing finally died when, as here, School Choice (the right to place your kid in another, better district) became a parental option. You'd think an educated set of justices could have figured that out to begin with, but there you are.

[theyarecomingforyou]

Yes, I read it. It's STILL completely unnecessary and they're just "punishing" the school for no bloody reason other than stupid political correctness.

The teaching of cultural diversity is important for society, as it promotes social cohesion and tolerance. It is hard for people to understand or respect other cultures if they have never encountered them. The same applies for predominantly non-white areas and/or religious communities - the specific demographics aren't important. The last thing I want is ghettoised communities that refuse to interact with outside members, as that is bad for society.

 

I don't see what grounds you have to oppose the teaching of cultural diversity - and no, simply labelling it 'political correctness' is not a counter-argument. They're not punishing the school for 'no reason' - they're criticising it for failing to adequately teach cultural diversity.

[123456789A]

The teaching of cultural diversity is important for society, as it promotes social cohesion and tolerance.

 

Tolerance maybe, cohesion definitely not.

[Stealthy_Singh]

This thread depresses me. Not because of the story. But because of everyone who is knocking OFSTED for doing something which they didn't do. Has anyone actually read the report? If not you should. To save you the time here it is: http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/provider/files/2295305/urn/120577.pdf. It's 9 pages with little writing mostly in bullet point format. Not long at all.

 

If you look at the section why the school was marked as not being outstanding there are 2 reasons and these are:

? Teaching is good and improving but not

enough is outstanding.

? There remains a small gap in achievement

between pupils who are supported by the pupil

premium and those who are not. 

 

None of these has to do with the ethnic mix of the school.

 

The things the school can do to acheive an outstanding rating:

? Further improve teaching so that more is outstanding by:

checking pupils? work regularly in lessons in order to quickly move them on to the next task

when they are ready

giving pupils more opportunities to complete practical activities relevant to real life to enrich

their understanding of mathematics

providing more time in lessons for pupils to check and assess their own and each other?s work.

? Further reduce the remaining small gap in achievement between pupils who are supported by

the pupil premium and those who are not by providing even more sharply focused and timely

extra help for pupils who need it.

 

Again nothing to do with the ethnic mix.

 

The one time the ethnic mix is mentioned this is what they have to say:

? A below-average proportion of pupils are from minority ethnic backgrounds and a similar

proportion speaks English as an additional language.

 

And what section is this in I hear you ask (or so you should be asking)? Well it is in no section that has any relevance to the rating the school gets. It is in the 'Information about this school' section. It is a statement of fact amongst others about the school and nothing else. It's in there along with the proportion of disabled school children and how many children have free meals and how large the school is. Are you going  to tell me it got a good rating and not an outstanding rating because the school is larger than the average too? 

 

I've lost a lot of respect for people who I thought didn't comment blindly on neowin.

 

It's these kinds of non stories that cause division and fuel parties like Britain First, UKIP and the BNP.

 

[DocM]

In the US this sort of thing led to kids spending 2 hours a day on buses being shuffled about. They had to get up early, eat dinner late and after homework had almost no time to themselves for play or just chilling out. I know, I had 2 youngsters in school then.

Are you saying THAT's acceptable?

[Stealthy_Singh]

In the US this sort of thing led to kids spending 2 hours a day on buses being shuffled about. They had to get up early, eat dinner late and after homework had almost no time to themselves for play or just chilling out. I know, I had 2 youngsters in school then.

Are you saying THAT's acceptable?

 

No. What you are describing I can't really comment on as I don't know the facts and the context. But on page one of this thread you wrote:

 

 

The UK 's Office for Standards in Education, Children's Services and Skills (OfSTED), a govt. agency so if they get on the stupid train it matters.

 

 

You are condemning people for something they didn't do. Are either of the two points that the OFSTED report refers to unreasonable? Do any of them have anything to do with ethnicity? Is there anything in the report that suggests OFSTED is on the stupid train? No. 

 

What I am saying is unacceptable is this immediate jump to judgement without looking at the evidence. I'm no fan of OFSTED. But the way this story is being spun incorrectly impacts on the social fabric. 

 

As I said I don't have all of the facts about it but it seems to me your busing issue is a whole different kettle of fish. That seems more to do with improving equality in educational opportunity/achievement. A good goal but at first glance I wouldn't say busing would be the answer. It is more to do with social justice and racial equality. It has something to do with a multicultural society but is a more specific issue about using a blunt tool to solve a specific problem. 

 

There seem to be 2 problems people have misidentified in the report.

1 - The claim the report says there are too few ethnic minorities in the school 

 

2 - The pupils don't have exposure to other ethnic minorities or their culture

 

The media has portrayed the report as saying that because of the above 2 issues the school was not given an outstanding rating leading people to think that OFSTED is saying you can't be a good school without the kids seeing local darkies. By the way I am Indian and use term tongue in cheek before people go all apoplectic. This issue is more to do with having a multicultural society that is well integrated and cohesive. Not necessarily to do with ensuing equal educational opportunities.

 

Now to debunk the 2 so called problems:

 

1 -  Not true it says the proportion of ethnic minorities is below the average. This is a statement of fact not a judgement on the number of minority students or an indication that there should be more

 

 

2 - The report makes no such claim. In fact in section it states: "Teachers provide a wide range of interesting tasks and varied activities to help pupils learn. Children in the Reception class enjoyed learning and increased their understanding of Indian culture and the festival of Diwali as they painted their hands, made candles and visited their own Indian restaurant."

 

Now this report being misappropriated and misquoted by the right wing press to conflate 2 issues (the schools rating and it's ethnic mix) incorrectly to construct a story that is false and divisive. Are you saying THAT's acceptable?

[DocM]

My comment thread implies that (all too often) government agencies sometimes do stupid, arrogant or irrational things, aka "the stupid train," and therefore need serious watching or action by the public. Are you denying that?

[Stealthy_Singh]

My comment thread implies that (all too often) government agencies sometimes do stupid, arrogant or irrational things, aka "the stupid train," and therefore need serious watching or action by the public. Are you denying that?

 

No. I agree if a government agency gets on the stupid train then it needs to be called out on it. One example would be: http://www.iflscience.com/environment/epa-barred-getting-advice-scientists. Now I don't yet know if this is true or not but I'm going to try and find out.  But no such thing has occurred in the story this thread is about.

 

Your statement was not as generalised as as your last comment suggests. It specifically mentions OFSTED and saying if it gets on the stupid train it matters. In reply to who is OFSTED? I didn't want to pick on you specifically Doc. You generally talk a lot of sense, more than I can say for a lot of people. But you replied to me so I chose your quote to reply back.

 

But can you answer my questions? Given the quotes of the report I've posted (if you don't want to read the whole report) do you agree that there is no story here as reported by the media? As such it doesn't really relate to the busing issue you were talking about?

 

Another person who I'm disappointed with is FloatingFatMan asking how the school is expected to get ethnic minorities into the school where there aren't any in the area. He normally makes a lot of sense too hence my disappointment. But the report doesn't say that the school needs more ethnic minorities. It makes no value judgement about it whatsoever.

[FloatingFatMan]

The teaching of cultural diversity is important for society, as it promotes social cohesion and tolerance. It is hard for people to understand or respect other cultures if they have never encountered them. The same applies for predominantly non-white areas and/or religious communities - the specific demographics aren't important. The last thing I want is ghettoised communities that refuse to interact with outside members, as that is bad for society.

 

I don't see what grounds you have to oppose the teaching of cultural diversity - and no, simply labelling it 'political correctness' is not a counter-argument. They're not punishing the school for 'no reason' - they're criticising it for failing to adequately teach cultural diversity.

 

Where did I say I oppose it? Learn to read what I wrote instead of inventing your own nonsense.

 

I said, quite clearly, that it's unacceptable for Ofsted to be "punishing" this school by marking them down, simply because of the horrific crime of not having many minority children living in the schools catchment area.

 

When I was at school, it was a big school but ALSO had very few minority students. Nobody gave a damn; it just wasn't an issue, and nor were there any of the multicultural problems that we get NOW thanks to it being rammed down our throats.

[Stealthy_Singh]

 

I said, quite clearly, that it's unacceptable for Ofsted to be "punishing" this school by marking them down, simply because of the horrific crime of not having many minority children living in the schools catchment area.

 

When I was at school, it was a big school but ALSO had very few minority students. Nobody gave a damn; it just wasn't an issue, and nor were there any of the multicultural problems that we get NOW thanks to it being rammed down our throats.

 

1 - no they are not

 

2 - No one gives a damn in this report either

[theyarecomingforyou]

I said, quite clearly, that it's unacceptable for Ofsted to be "punishing" this school by marking them down, simply because of the horrific crime of not having many minority children living in the schools catchment area.

And I have pointed out several times that that's NOT WHAT HAPPENED. That's the spin being placed on the article by The Telegraph because it suits its agenda.

 

When I was at school, it was a big school but ALSO had very few minority students. Nobody gave a damn; it just wasn't an issue, and nor were there any of the multicultural problems that we get NOW thanks to it being rammed down our throats.

The issue isn't the number of minority students but the lack of first-hand exposure to them, something that can be addressed via numerous methods (listed earlier).