Fury at Airbus after it hints the super-jumbo may be mothballed

[DocM]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/fury-at-airbus-after-it-hints-the-superjumbo-may-be-mothballed-9919512.html

Fury at Airbus after it hints the super-jumbo may be mothballed

Airbus plunged deeper into crisis yesterday as customers reacted with fury to its suggestion that it may stop producing the fabled A380 super-jumbo in 2018 because of poor sales.

The prospect of the European plane-maker, which employs thousands of workers in the UK, mothballing the giant passenger airliner sent shockwaves through the aviation industry yesterday and triggered a major fall in the companys share price.

Chief financial officer Harald Wilhelm started the speculation frenzy when reports emerged that he had told investors Airbus might have to discontinue the plane unless it can invest in improvements to make it more attractive to customers. Although analysts and rivals have suggested it for some time, it was the first time the manufacturer had talked publicly about the humiliating possibility.

He said the A380 manufacturing programme would break even next year but not into 2018 without new engine types. That decision on the engine has to be made soon, because it would normally take about four years and $2bn to develop.

Sales of the A380 have been sluggish because of a limit to the number of routes where a 500-seater is needed. No airline has ordered A380s at all this year, while in July, the Japanese carrier Skymark Airlines cancelled the six it had ordered.

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[chrisj1968]

that's sad. but the global economy is awful 

[GotBored]

Good news for anyone who travels economy, your like a sardine in a tin can in one of those things with 8 seats in a row, no leg room, no room to rest your arms on the arm rest, etc while the first class cabins have a bed sized seat, your own bar and lounge area. etc..

[Melfster]

Hasn't 380 been boondoggle for Airbus?  It doesn't seem likely they will recoup the investment into the plane.

[DocM]

Yup. AIUI the Emirates order is almost half the total, and you can't go to that well forever.

A380 was built on the assumption that the hub and spoke model (small feeder flights feeding large jumbos) would dominate. They haven't because customers want to minimize connection hassles. They're going for point to point flights, which is where fuel efficient cruisers like 787 shine. Boeing has over 1,000 787 orders this year.

[DeadEndAccount]

that's sad. but the global economy is awful 

 

It isn't the global economy but something Boeing predicted which is why they developed the 787 then tweaked the 747 rather than creating a super jumbo aka 380 competitor. The 380 was more or less a giant euro-vanity project propelled by politicians rather than market forces (check out how the parts were sourced and then put together as a good example) which is why it has ended up where it is rather than being the rocketing success some had hoped it would be.

[Ryoken]

Good news for anyone who travels economy, your like a sardine in a tin can in one of those things with 8 seats in a row, no leg room, no room to rest your arms on the arm rest, etc while the first class cabins have a bed sized seat, your own bar and lounge area. etc..

 

More likely it just means smaller planes keep getting re-designed to fit more and more seats with less and less room. Last one I flew in across the Atlantic I couldn't even use my MBA, or read my book, not enough room between seats.

[DocM]

>

The 380 was more or less a giant euro-vanity project propelled by politicians rather than market forces (check out how the parts were sourced and then put together as a good example) which is why it has ended up where it is rather than being the rocketing success some had hoped it would be.

This is also whats giving Arianespace fits. They already have their hands full with leaner/meaner SpaceX and will also have to contend with Blue Origin (Jeff Bezos of Amazon), India and China. They all have efficiencies Arianespace will have trouble watching, and they're all rapidly moving targets R&D wise.

[FloatingFatMan]

More likely it just means smaller planes keep getting re-designed to fit more and more seats with less and less room. Last one I flew in across the Atlantic I couldn't even use my MBA, or read my book, not enough room between seats.

 

It's because of this idiocy that I've completely stopped flying anywhere.  I'm not paying hundreds to be squeezed into a space you wouldn't be allowed to ship livestock in.

[Biohead]

Good news for anyone who travels economy, your like a sardine in a tin can in one of those things with 8 seats in a row, no leg room, no room to rest your arms on the arm rest, etc while the first class cabins have a bed sized seat, your own bar and lounge area. etc..

 

8 abreast on an A380 is actually quite generous (even on the top deck). Almost all A380's have 10 abreast at the back 3-4-3, and it's not as tight as you think. Take a look at the B787, it's a much narrower cabin, yet almost all airlines fit 9 abreast in the back - that's a real squeeze!

 

At the end of the day, 4 engines uses a lot more fuel. No two ways about it. The A380 config I work with carries 470pax, yet the 777s we have carries 330 pax - with half the engines. The A380 is really a niche product, and the fact it needs new infrastructure at each airport that uses it doesn't help.

 

I still find it strange there's worry/anger being thrown around at Airbus over this as though it was their only product. They've got a lot of aircraft coming very soon which more than eclipses the A380 order book - A320Neo, A330Neo and the A350 which already has more than DOUBLE the orders than the A380 - and it isn't even out yet.

[remixedcat]

First the awesome concordes and now this... VERY DEPRESSING :(

[FunkyMike]

I wouldn't worry.

The Chinese just bout 49% of the Toulouse Airbus airport and they certainly need planes.

Looks like Airbus is playing their chips.

[HawkMan]

Yup. AIUI the Emirates order is almost half the total, and you can't go to that well forever.

A380 was built on the assumption that the hub and spoke model (small feeder flights feeding large jumbos) would dominate. They haven't because customers want to minimize connection hassles. They're going for point to point flights, which is where fuel efficient cruisers like 787 shine. Boeing has over 1,000 787 orders this year.

 

 

they only shine the 50% of the time when they're not grounded on technical difficulties... ;)

 

great plane, but boy does it have a lot of issues.

[blerk]

They're going for point to point flights, which is where fuel efficient cruisers like 787 shine. Boeing has over 1,000 787 orders this year.

 

The 787 is great for long thin routes and the 777 is excellent for higher capacity. Boeing have an enviable position with their widebody twins at the moment. The 777-8/9 should make things even better. 

[GotBored]

8 abreast on an A380 is actually quite generous (even on the top deck). Almost all A380's have 10 abreast at the back 3-4-3, and it's not as tight as you think. Take a look at the B787, it's a much narrower cabin, yet almost all airlines fit 9 abreast in the back - that's a real squeeze!

 

At the end of the day, 4 engines uses a lot more fuel. No two ways about it. The A380 config I work with carries 470pax, yet the 777s we have carries 330 pax - with half the engines. The A380 is really a niche product, and the fact it needs new infrastructure at each airport that uses it doesn't help.

 

I still find it strange there's worry/anger being thrown around at Airbus over this as though it was their only product. They've got a lot of aircraft coming very soon which more than eclipses the A380 order book - A320Neo, A330Neo and the A350 which already has more than DOUBLE the orders than the A380 - and it isn't even out yet.

 

Ah yes, 10 seats in a row in economy. The disparity between first and economy on them is huge.

 

I've been on the jetstar 787 9 seaters. 3x3x3 and also the qantas A380 3x4x3 (Melb to LA) and I think the 787's are more comfortable.

[siah1214]

they only shine the 50% of the time when they're not grounded on technical difficulties... ;)

 

great plane, but boy does it have a lot of issues.

New airframes almost always do.  :-\

[Biohead]

New airframes always do.  :-\

Fixed that for you :p

[Biohead]

Ah yes, 10 seats in a row in economy. The disparity between first and economy on them is huge.

 

I've been on the jetstar 787 9 seaters. 3x3x3 and also the qantas A380 3x4x3 (Melb to LA) and I think the 787's are more comfortable.

It does depends on the airline at the end of the day. I know in our config, A380 seats are 18" wide, and 787 17.2". 787 was designed for 2-4-2 but bean counters around the world opted for 3-3-3. Our top deck is 2-4-2 in economy and you can feel the difference as there's so much more space at the sides (obviously the cabin curves up there so that's why you can't do 3-4-3) - that's where you want to be!

I'm quite a tall person, and I feel much more comfortable on the 380 than the 787. Then again, I've never flown the 787 so I've never experienced the "benefits" of lower pressurisation as no doubt that will have an effect on long haul flights.

[Ryoken]

It's because of this idiocy that I've completely stopped flying anywhere.  I'm not paying hundreds to be squeezed into a space you wouldn't be allowed to ship livestock in.

 

It's funny cause it's true. When my family shipped down a dog, still a pup, the minimal cage for it was larger than my seating area.