TMYW Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Wal-Mart is only one of many 24 hour store chains, including grocery and pharmacies, so limiting it to Wal-Mart in daylight hours, especially during northern US winters, is cherry picking. Under self defense laws assault, sexual assault etc. trigger the right to aggressive self defense, including the use deadly force if one is on fear of serious harm or rape. What good is that right without the means to accomplish it? US Bureau of Justice Statistics, Violent victimization = assault, rape, etc. but not murders. The percentages are of non-murder violent crimes averaged over 4 years. Total crimes/year averaged 5.5 million. Murder increases the stats beyond the percentage listed. Commercial places: 12.1% (restaurant, bar, office etc) In parking areas: 7.3% (parking lot or garage) In public places: 17.6% (Street, park, public transit) At school: 13.0% Do the math. There's no math to do. If you're implying that you can just add up those percentages, I have a remedial probability class for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Listing them all together, which is how the Feds do it, gives a clearer picture of such crimes. Businesses, schools etc. are why the parking facilities exist and why criminal choose to commit crimes there - the target rich environments mentioned earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trag3dy Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 You say we don't have the freedom to protect ourselves? I respond with, we have no NEED to have to protect ourselves! Here, people are not armed, not even criminals (generally), so we have no need to walk around with a gun at all times, ready to use deadly force at a moments notice. In fact, I find it quite sad that you guys DO... Because we can do anything about the thousands of people illegally invading our country from the south, many of them criminals, and all the gangs here that put anything you have over there to shame. I think people would be extremely happy if we didn't feel like we had to protect ourselves. But feelings don't change facts. Ralph3100 and DConnell 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 We get those too, you know. Mostly eastern Europeans, and many of them just as criminal as the ones you get. theyarecomingforyou 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techbeck Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 "She was not the least bit irresponsible," I would say leaving a gun in her purse unsecured around a 2yr old about as irresponsible as you can get. Sucks, but her own damn fault for being such and idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 We get those too, you know. Mostly eastern Europeans, and many of them just as criminal as the ones you get. But in nowhere near the numbers, and where are the European equivalents of hyperbole groups like Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13)? Oh wait, I hear MS-13 wants to spread to Europe too. Welcome to the party. Hope you're up to it. http://youtu.be/uFGvPnvhXUU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Really, Doc? Playing the "My gang's worse than your gang" game, now? Tut tut... Tha Bloo Monkee and theyarecomingforyou 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMYW Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Listing them all together, which is how the Feds do it, gives a clearer picture of such crimes. Businesses, schools etc. are why the parking facilities exist and why criminal choose to commit crimes there - the target rich environments mentioned earlier. Those percentages just tell you where the crimes occur. They have to occur somewhere, don't they? As for the 5.5 million crimes that you quoted, what kind of crimes do they include? According to this chart, there were 1.1 million incidences of "violent crime" in 2013. Of those, only 95K were murder or forcible rape. We have a population of around 320 million. That means that around 30 in 100,000 will be either murdered or raped every year. And how many rapes would actually occur with the rapist himself not being able to use the threat of a gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMYW Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Wyoming has the 2nd lowest population density in the US and the smallest population, so the 7th lowest crime rate is nothing to brag about and neither is never having had a mass shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Really, Doc? Playing the "My gang's worse than your gang" game, now? Tut tut... It matters, like it or not. You need better defenses against a pack of pit bulls than you do a pair of chihuahuas. Different realities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hum Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 that gun sure kept her safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Same could be said of the reckless drivers car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blank Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 Apparently, now we need defenses against 2 year olds as well, since guns don't kill people, toddlers do. the more guns that are out there, the more this is going to happen. Luckily the lady was hurt instead of a non gun obsessed self centered person. keep on deflecting. theyarecomingforyou 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 No deflecting. Contrary to your assertion, gun deaths have been going down for ~35 years even as numbers drastically increased. Accidents are also on the skids. Your perception is skewed because of increased reporting. psmoked and Ph1b3r0pt1c 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippleman Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 No deflecting. Contrary to your assertion, gun deaths have been going down for ~35 years even as numbers increase. curious, if gun deaths have been going down, why do you pack a gun if its getting safer? I know your comeback... "gun deaths going down doesn't mean other crimes aren't going up" Then i will say "So you need a gun to defend yourself against other people like yourself who have gun"... Then you will say "criminals will always have guns" Then I will say so criminals having guns is a problem? Then you will not answer the actual question and deflect saying "criminals will always have guns" Then I will say, where do criminals get the majority of guns? You will not answer and deflect that " you can get guns from mexico" Then i will say "EXCUSES" It will go around like this for 10 more back and forth, and in the end, you will STILL not see that GUNS are a problem. You don't see a problem because you love them. Like a woman how gets beat by her husband, your love blinds you for seeing what they really are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
game_over Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Having a child is all the more reason to have a gun. I don't want to play any games with someone threatening me, much less if it were my kid. And like DocM said, women are attacked in parking lots all the time. That is the place I'd want one most of all. It wasn't a "pathetic decision" that cost this woman her life either and saying so is extremely disrespectful. She became indifferent and that is what cost her. Just because you do not have the freedom to protect yourself across the pond does not make those here pathetic for wanting to do so. We rely on personal responsibility which she showed a lack of in that moment. If woman get attacked all the time then legally carrying a gun doesn't appear to be a solution to the problem? I would expect robberies to be a much lower number than a country without guns if having legal guns was actually helping tackle a problem. I fully support having the means to defend yourself but all i see is innocent people being killed either by accident or people going crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddman Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Properly carried, condition 1 is where you should be at if allowable. The time it takes to rack the weapon (especially under duress) is not negligible when someone is attacking you. Shaving milliseconds off can definitely be life or death. Please note that this is in reference to proper carry, not stuffing a weapon in a purse. I'm not going to carry a chambered gun around other civilians, in a restaurant or a shop or a mall or any crowded place, specially if I had a minor with me. Safety of others is more important than my ego. I'm not the only person that walks the earth. Now if I were to walk down an empty street, in a bad neighborhood, and perhaps in late afternoon or night, sure, I'd put it in condition 1. I'm not saying C1 is absolutely unsafe and an imminent danger, but it surely isn't as safe as C3. Each condition has its use cases. There is no "best" condition. We should stop thinking like we're in a warzone and use the condition that suits the situation. This woman's death could've easily been avoided. P.S. I'm not telling others what they should or should not do. If someone wants to always use C1, then Ok. That's their choice, but always consider alternatives too. +Raze 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 curious, if gun deaths have been going down, why do you pack a gun if its getting safer? (blather) (blather) > Because national statistics smooth out local data variances. We live in SE Michigan 25+ miles outside of Detroit, and frequently have to travel near and through it. Detroit's homicide rate is 10x that of the nation as a whole, somewhere between the rates of Columbia and Guatemala. That and we get "spillover crime" - Detroit hoods coming into the suburbs and countryside looking for easy pickings. This includes home invasion gangs, meaning several gangsters burst in and rob, rape and often kill the residents in a blitz attack. One such gang was broken up last year that ventured as far as 60 miles from their Detroit base. This is enough of a problem that a Home Invasion law was passed with enhanced sentences over "regular" B&E's and robberies. Violent carjacking are also a big problem. When Detroit's new police chief came to toan he was carjacked his first week there. You may think.carrying a firearm in such places is silly, but no one here does. remixedcat and psmoked 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippleman Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 You may think.carrying a firearm in such places is silly, but no one here does. I actually don't think its silly to have to carry a firearm under certain conditions, your situation could very well be justified but I wouldn't know that and your love and fascination for them, you neither. I am just saying you can't see the forest through the trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I see the forest quite well, and the potential for the gang situation to worsen due to an open borders policy. As to my collection, most are for hunting and less for protection. There is no "universal gun" so at least one and a spare for each activity including target league shooting. Some of the handguns are for hunting as well. You should see my bow, boomerang and atlatl collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagjohn Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 No deflecting. Contrary to your assertion, gun deaths have been going down for ~35 years even as numbers drastically increased. Accidents are also on the skids. Your perception is skewed because of increased reporting. Stats don't really matter really, do they? The future of that kid was killed as well. I can't imagine the horror/guilt he is going to feel, knowing he killed his mother. The father will have to go through life knowing his son killed his wife. The whole family was the victim. And it was senseless. There really needs to be some sort of added security added to guns so they can't be used by others but the owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Biometric and other such secured guns exist, but they aren't reliable or affordable yet. They also are impractical in sizes that would be good for concealed carry. That said, her carrying in a real holster, and a firearm that is geared more for safty, could have prevented this. These are available, affordable, small, and highly reliable. They don't even require a traditional "safety" lever because their trigger systems have interlocks that provide better safety. psmoked 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remixedcat Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 His mom was a booksmart dumb blonde what do you expect??!!! -_- ugh When I got lil babies-n-kids near me I don't let em even touch my purse and I don't even gotta gun in it! DConnell 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 My daughter & wife use on-their-person devices; bra mounted, thigh band, inside or outside the waistband or a fanny pack holsters. All are exponentially safer than carrying in a damned purse. psmoked and remixedcat 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remixedcat Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Plus the gun would go off due to obejects in the purse banging it in the right places... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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