Simple Network Setup Questions


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I'm moving in to a new place, and have a question on how to set up the network in it.  It has cat5e run to each room, but only 2 rooms need a router for the computers in the rooms.

 

I have my own cable modem that I use and will need to buy a couple more routers.

 

I threw together a quick diagram of how I think it should be laid out.

 

how do i set this up?  do i just put Router 1 in bridge mode and leave Router 2 and 3 at their default settings?

 

also, any tips on good reasonably priced routers to use?

 

Also, Router 1 won't need WiFi, and Router 2 and 3 will each have 2 wired computers and various WiFi connections.

 

Here's the crappy diagram I threw together-

 

Thanks!

post-127304-0-50953200-1420220783.png

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Why do you need so many routers? Are they all going to be on different subnets or something?

 

If you have CAT5 cable already terminating at the cable modem, then why can't you replace router 2 & 3 with a switch and a WAP each. A lot cheaper and a lot less configuring required, imho.

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Why do you need so many routers? Are they all going to be on different subnets or something?

 

If you have CAT5 cable already terminating at the cable modem, then why can't you replace router 2 & 3 with a switch and a WAP each. A lot cheaper and a lot less configuring required, imho.

 

nah, not doing anything with subnets or anything.   just trying to have two rooms, each with two wired computers in them.  There's only one cat5e to each room, so would need something to split it in two in the rooms, and preferably have WiFi for that side of the house.

 

So it would go cable modem to router to switch 1 and switch 2?  so that would mean that the WiFi would only come from the central router?   (which isn't really that big of a deal if it's easier)

 

Thanks again, i'm such a newbie to all of this...

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If your worried about wifi coverage in those areas then sure a wifi router can be used as AP and switch, and they can be had really cheap..  If your wifi coverage is fine from the 1st router you could just use switches.

 

Are you going to gig or 100?  What are your wifi clients?  What is the distance from rooms to where the main router is?  This would help determine if you need more than 1 router.

 

Again you wouldn't be using these as routers, but just AP with switch ports.  You would connect them to your main router via one of their lan ports - not their internet/wan port.  You would disable their dhcp servers and put their lan IP on your main routers networks.

 

So if your router is 192.168.1.1, then router 2 could be 192.168.1.2 and 3 could be 192.168.1.3 -- this would allow you to connect to them and manage the wifi portion, etc.  Not sure of the distances envolved here - you don't really want to do this if they are close.  But if your in a large home - then sure.  Or if your in a country where they make the houses like bombshelters then might be warranted.

 

You could also just get switches and use true AP that would prob give you more wifi features - something like the unifi AP can be had for $70 for their entry level model..  http://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap/

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No that doesn't work - where is his nat - does his isp give him 2 IPs?  Cable Modems do not do nat..  Cable gateways do (modem/router combo) but modems just change the connection to ethernet and give you a IP from your ISP.

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Needs to be the opposite of that and depending (as BudMan said) on WiFi coverage from your main router either switches or Access Points in the other rooms:
network_diagram.jpg
Then if your going for switches get gigabit ones, they cost like
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For a typical home network, you should have one device acting as a router for your internet connection. Anything else should be a switch, access point or switch & access point (single unit). By having multiple routers (as routers) you're doing double NAT which is likely beyond what you're trying to achieve.

 

I'm hoping that by router you're actually referring to using a router in access point mode (where it's routing & DHCP functions are turned off) or a device that has a 4-8 port switch and wireless built-in.

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Thanks for all the great info guys!

 

so, if i have it going    cable modem -->Router-->both switches    and the Wifi from the central router reaches everywhere, i'm set.   The house is concrete block and is pretty solid and it's only about 75 feet to the corner of the house where the farthest switch would be.

 

if worse comes to worst, i can add an access point after one of the switches and use that for WiFi also?   

 

I think it's getting clear in my head now.   Going to be setting it up next weekend.

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Thanks for all the great info guys!

 

so, if i have it going    cable modem -->Router-->both switches    and the Wifi from the central router reaches everywhere, i'm set.   The house is concrete block and is pretty solid and it's only about 75 feet to the corner of the house where the farthest switch would be.

 

if worse comes to worst, i can add an access point after one of the switches and use that for WiFi also?   

 

I think it's getting clear in my head now.   Going to be setting it up next weekend.

 

Pretty much. Your single router should handle DHCP for all devices attached to it logically, so the switches will extend your network to allow more devices to connect physically.

 

You can always get an access point device or a SOHO router that supports running in access point mode (effectively becomes a switch with wireless access) if you're worried about wireless range or performance.

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Thanks for all the great info guys!

 

so, if i have it going    cable modem -->Router-->both switches    and the Wifi from the central router reaches everywhere, i'm set.   The house is concrete block and is pretty solid and it's only about 75 feet to the corner of the house where the farthest switch would be.

 

if worse comes to worst, i can add an access point after one of the switches and use that for WiFi also?   

 

I think it's getting clear in my head now.   Going to be setting it up next weekend.

Yeah exactly, although most access points are also 4 port switches, so it would probable be replace a switch with an access point rather than add an AP after the switch. Other than that you're good.

 

With a 75 foot house as long as there are no really thick interior walls or chimney stacks etc...in the way then the router's wifi should be enough to cover the house .

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Yeah exactly, although most access points are also 4 port switches, so it would probable be replace a switch with an access point rather than add an AP after the switch. Other than that you're good.

 

With a 75 foot house as long as there are no really thick interior walls or chimney stacks etc...in the way then the router's wifi should be enough to cover the house .

 

It's not really common to find an access point with switches built-in these days unless they are entry level / legacy re-badged SOHO routers. Due to the rise in Power Over Ethernet popularity for access points, you'll find more and more with just a single LAN port.

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It's not really common to find an access point with switches built-in these days unless they are entry level / legacy re-badged SOHO routers. Due to the rise in Power Over Ethernet popularity for access points, you'll find more and more with just a single LAN port.

Fair point PoE ones are generally just 1 port, though I have seem some with extras, but most router style AP's/routers in AP mode will have a switch, and in this instance it's probably the most sensible option.

 

PoE stuff still has issues, mainly bandwidth if you have high end broadband. My 70mb BT Infinity gets 70mb if i'm on a 0.5m Ethernet right by the router or after 2 switches and about 30m of Ethernet to get to my study.  I tried Powerline Adapters to start with and the most I could get is 35-40mb over them, and they weren't cheap ones,

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It's not really common to find an access point with switches built-in these days unless they are entry level / legacy re-badged SOHO routers. Due to the rise in Power Over Ethernet popularity for access points, you'll find more and more with just a single LAN port.

 

Bufferlo routers used to come with a switch that turns them into AP mode, Certianly my WHR-1166D-EU's do.

 

Besides with most SOHO routers the AP is bridged to the Switch chip anyway, so actually as long as you change the IP of the web interface and disable their DHCP server you can usually get away with just connecting one of their LAN ports into your existing network and using them as an addational AP.

 

 

@phill I think you might be confusing POE (Which is power over ethernet, e.g powering a device like an access point using the network cable) with Powerline adaptors which send data over electrical cabling.  There's no reason why you can't get gigabit over cabling that's carrying POE indeed most enterprise setups the AP's are POE.

 

Also most Proper Access points don't actually have a switch, but then I suppose it would depend on your definition of a "proper" access point, if someone said that to me I'd be thinking Cisco, Rukus, Meru, UBNT.etc

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Fair point PoE ones are generally just 1 port, though I have seem some with extras, but most router style AP's/routers in AP mode will have a switch, and in this instance it's probably the most sensible option.

 

PoE stuff still has issues, mainly bandwidth if you have high end broadband. My 70mb BT Infinity gets 70mb if i'm on a 0.5m Ethernet right by the router or after 2 switches and about 30m of Ethernet to get to my study.  I tried Powerline Adapters to start with and the most I could get is 35-40mb over them, and they weren't cheap ones,

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Bufferlo routers used to come with a switch that turns them into AP mode, Certianly my WHR-1166D-EU's do.

 

Besides with most SOHO routers the AP is bridged to the Switch chip anyway, so actually as long as you change the IP of the web interface and disable their DHCP server you can usually get away with just connecting one of their LAN ports into your existing network and using them as an addational AP.

 

 

@phill I think you might be confusing POE (Which is power over ethernet, e.g powering a device like an access point using the network cable) with Powerline adaptors which send data over electrical cabling.  There's no reason why you can't get gigabit over cabling that's carrying POE indeed most enterprise setups the AP's are POE.

 

Also most Proper Access points don't actually have a switch, but then I suppose it would depend on your definition of a "proper" access point, if someone said that to me I'd be thinking Cisco, Rukus, Meru, UBNT.etc

Yes apologies I did mean powerline adapters not PoE.

And as this is home I'm thinking Netgear, Linksys etc.. yes most enterprise AP's do just have 1 port, but most home ones that aren't powerline style tend to have a switch.

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"Yeah exactly, although most access points are also 4 port switches,"

 

Not sure what APs you have been looking at - but I that is not the standard no..  That is standard for your soho wifi router that sure is an AP ;)  But not your just standard AP.. Most of them have 1 port - some have 2 for daisy chain or pass through, etc.

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Why not this?

 

post_127304_0_50953200_1420220783.png

Well you could make that work by a Netgear GS105E configured like:

VLAN ID 1

port 2 tag

port 5 untag

VLAN ID 2

port 1 tag

port 5 untag

VLAN ID 3

port 5 tag

port 1,2 untag

 

Have both routers on ports 1,2 configured with the same MAC so they get the same WAN IP and each doing statefull blocking (just don't port forward the same TCP port on both) with port 5 to the modem.

 

Of course thats the more interesting way of doing things but for a router to look at for something simple the EdgeRouter

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@PeterUK how are you finding the GS105E?

I have some GS108E's and I've found whilst the switches themselves are usually ok once they've been configured, the management tool is terrible, it's slow and it will often timeout.

 

Also whilst the ERL is an awsome bit of kit, I wouldn't reccomend it for most home users as it's not your typical plug and play soho gateway.

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@PeterUK how are you finding the GS105E?

I have some GS108E's and I've found whilst the switches themselves are usually ok once they've been configured, the management tool is terrible, it's slow and it will often timeout.

 

Also whilst the ERL is an awsome bit of kit, I wouldn't reccomend it for most home users as it's not your typical plug and play soho gateway.

Its Netgear way of reinventing the web access by TCP to the switch and doing it by UDP which I don't know seemed like a good idea at the time...its really a love hate thing with Netgear and their support but the higher up you go with their switches better they are.

 

ERL is a bit of a learning curve but their web access for the firewall is not so bad port forwarding is a bit harder and getting it setup for use there is a wizard to get you going.

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"Have both routers on ports 1,2 configured with the same MAC so they get the same WAN IP"

 

What???  That is just insanity... Interesting would NOT be the word I would use for something like that - the words I would like to use would most likely get me a warning ;) hehehehe

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"Have both routers on ports 1,2 configured with the same MAC so they get the same WAN IP"

 

What???  That is just insanity... Interesting would NOT be the word I would use for something like that - the words I would like to use would most likely get me a warning ;) hehehehe

Well it does work but if I could of redesign the way NAT works with DHCP to get one shared WAN IP and one LAN IP I would but the powers that be didn't think like that.

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