freak180 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 A law that went into effect at the start of 2015 will allow Illinois school districts to demand the social media passwords for students that break the rules or are suspected of cyberbullying. Motherboard received a copy of the letter sent to parents, which details the law: "If your child has an account on a social networking website, e.g., Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, ask.fm, etc., please be aware that State law requires school authorities to notify you that your child may be asked to provide his or her password for these accounts to school officials in certain circumstances." http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/22/talktalk-new-mobile-tariffs/http%3A%2F2F20152F222F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjarboe Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 So just because a child is in school gives the state and the schools the right to invade privacy? Government has turned into the peoples worst enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Warwagon MVC Posted January 22, 2015 MVC Share Posted January 22, 2015 What if you have 2 factor authentication turned on Damien, nocturnalis, +InsaneNutter and 4 others 7 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted January 22, 2015 MVC Share Posted January 22, 2015 So just because a child is in school gives the state and the schools the right to invade privacy? Government has turned into the peoples worst enemy. This has always been the case and it makes sense... For instance, in the "old days" you couldn't stuff a gun in your locker and have the luxury of waiting for the school to seek out a court order to search the locker before opening it. It seems uncool that they can request this information, but cyber-bulling is a serious problem and schools should have tools to combat that threat. Kids aren't adults and they don't get the same protections as them... COKid, Tews, theyarecomingforyou and 1 other 4 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim K Global Moderator Posted January 22, 2015 Global Moderator Share Posted January 22, 2015 umm....something something....5th Amendment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted January 22, 2015 MVC Share Posted January 22, 2015 What if you have 2 factor authentication turned on Obviously, they would be required to either disable it or surrender the secondary authentication device and its password as well. I have no problem with this rule. Bulling was bad enough when I was in school in the late 90s. I can't even begin to imagine how much worse it is now when the bullies have the ability to do so much more damage using the Internet and Social Media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devn00b Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I sense a spike in home schooling on the way, and a sudden boom in home school teachers. All this bullying BS is just that BS. Anyone over the age of hmm lets say 25, had to deal with bullying, it made most of us stronger. I fear for this generation of kids when they hit the real world, and they get a boss that is "mean" or a "bully". Infact, where are the laws to protect adults from bullies, these same kids are going to need those too. So on and so forth. It's a parents job to protect their children and to police them, NOT the school. If your child is getting bullied and you dont bother to notice whos fault is that? //edit: I have a teenage daughter, I police her accounts. Its not that difficult. psmoked, +E.Worm Jimmy, Open Minded and 3 others 6 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Warwagon MVC Posted January 22, 2015 MVC Share Posted January 22, 2015 Obviously, they would be required to either disable it or surrender the secondary authentication device and its password as well. . Bulling was bad enough when I was in school in the late 90s. I can't even begin to imagine how much worse it is now when the bullies have the ability to do so much more damage using the Internet and Social Media. The locker was on school grounds thus property of the school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnónna Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 What if you have 2 factor authentication turned on or you don't know your password because you use lastpass or keepass or some other password manager and you used a generated password and genuinely don't know your password. surley you don't have to give them access to your lastpass accout since it's not a social media site welcome to 1984 +E.Worm Jimmy 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Warwagon MVC Posted January 22, 2015 MVC Share Posted January 22, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted January 22, 2015 MVC Share Posted January 22, 2015 umm....something something....5th Amendment? Doesn't apply to students equally as it does to adults.... Same reason you can't run around a school cursing like a sailor and then claiming your First Amendment rights give you license to say anything you want without punishment from the government. There are several reasons why violations of student rights are upheld by the courts. One of the most basic reasons is known as in loco parentis. This Latin phrase basically means that while a student is in the custody of a school, the school can and often should act as a parent. In this duty of the school, many decisions can be made that are outside the normal governmental purview. The other basic reason for violation of student rights has to do with the goal of school TPreston 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon H Supervisor Posted January 22, 2015 Supervisor Share Posted January 22, 2015 um ... wasn't this made illegal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted January 22, 2015 MVC Share Posted January 22, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cnónna Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 You have a simple choice. Login to LastPass or KeePass and get the generated password and give it to them or give them access to the password manager. Which one you chose would be up to you... You genuinely know the password because you know where it can be obtained... umm....something something....5th Amendment? am not american. but does that not trump other lesser laws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted January 22, 2015 MVC Share Posted January 22, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjarboe Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 This has always been the case and it makes sense... For instance, in the "old days" you couldn't stuff a gun in your locker and have the luxury of waiting for the school to seek out a court order to search the locker before opening it. It seems uncool that they can request this information, but cyber-bulling is a serious problem and schools should have tools to combat that threat. Kids aren't adults and they don't get the same protections as them... No where in the second amendment does it say that there is a age restriction. Also, the analogy of lockers in schools is different. Lockers belong to the schools. Schools, or the government for that matter, do not own Facebook, Myspace, Google+, etc... Believe me, I am totally against Bullying. I was bullied when I was in school many years ago. All those social media sights have protections to block people. That includes bullies. If the child/adult doesn't understand how to use those protections, then maybe they shouldn't be using the social media sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim K Global Moderator Posted January 22, 2015 Global Moderator Share Posted January 22, 2015 Doesn't apply to students equally as it does to adults.... Same reason you can't run around a school cursing like a sailor and then claiming your First Amendment rights give you license to say anything you want without punishment from the government. Source: http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_stud.html You're talking about "in school" settings to where the education establishment must maintain good order and discipline to further the educational experience. In loco parentis ... but that is not a blanket reason to violate a student's 4th and 5th amendment rights. R.S. et al v. Minnewaska Area School District No. 2149 et al Defendants question whether R.S. had a reasonable expectation of privacy with respect to the private information posted to her Facebook account and private communications that she made with other students via Facebook. Here it is important to note that Facebook provides different means of communication. Postings to a user Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted January 22, 2015 MVC Share Posted January 22, 2015 No where in the second amendment does it say that there is a age restriction. Also, the analogy of lockers in schools is different. Lockers belong to the schools. Schools, or the government for that matter, do not own Facebook, Myspace, Google+, etc... Believe me, I am totally against Bullying. I was bullied when I was in school many years ago. All those social media sights have protections to block people. That includes bullies. If the child/adult doesn't understand how to use those protections, then maybe they shouldn't be using the social media sights. Again, read the SCOTUS restrictions I cited. SOTUS has placed restrictions on the constitutional protections of students... https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1244090-illinois-students-might-have-to-forfeit-their-facebook-password/?view=findpost&p=596727158 Additionally, no you can't just "block" the bullies. A major factor in bullying is publicly displaying the bullying to others. Bullies don't often bully you in private. Social media magnifies this effect to extreme levels. Allowing someone to bully you and snap a picture or record a video and then share it with the whole school who then spends everyday laughing at you and joining in on the torture. Bullying now is orders of magnitudes worse now than it ever has been. The painful effects of it also have the sad side effect of being immortalized so it is even harder to escape it. You're older, like me, so there were no videos or pictures of the bullying you had to endure causing people to laugh at you well into your adulthood or keep reminding you of that part of your past. You were able to not have everyone around you showing you pictures of it on their phone laughing at you or you go off to college and somehow that video is now being recirculated and people there too are teasing you. But yeah... I guess the bullied kids are the ones who should check out. Sadly, they do, at an alarming rate, suicide among young teens due to bulling via social media is becoming all to common. http://nobullying.com/six-unforgettable-cyber-bullying-cases/ DConnell and Shiranui 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim K Global Moderator Posted January 22, 2015 Global Moderator Share Posted January 22, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted January 22, 2015 MVC Share Posted January 22, 2015 Not sure what you're asking. However, state laws cannot supersede the US constitution. Careful, the Constitution only trumps State Constitutions and laws in areas where the Constitution is given authority. The Bill of Rights is applied to State Constitutions, but the entirety of the Constitution isn't applied to states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seta-san Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 jjkusaf, on 22 Jan 2015 - 12:23, said: umm....something something....5th Amendment? 4th - unreasonable searches 5th - the right to not incriminate themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim K Global Moderator Posted January 22, 2015 Global Moderator Share Posted January 22, 2015 Careful, the Constitution only trumps State Constitutions and laws in areas where the Constitution is given authority. The Bill of Rights is applied to State Constitutions, but the entirety of the Constitution isn't applied to states. All federal laws which are constitutionally authorized trump state laws...period. Article 6, Clause 2 This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding. 4th - unreasonable searches 5th - the right to not incriminate themselves. I addressed that in Post #17 after initially just thinking 5th Amendment (self incrimination)...not necessarily illegal search/seizure (which it obviously is). But thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted January 22, 2015 MVC Share Posted January 22, 2015 All federal laws which are constitutionally authorized trump state laws...period. Article 6, Clause 2 I addressed that in Post #17 after initially just thinking 5th Amendment (self incrimination)...not necessarily illegal search/seizure (which it obviously is). But thanks. I assure you I am not arguing for the sake of arguing... Remember, the US Constitution wasn't drafted as a limit on State Government. It was drafted as a setup and limitation on Federal government power only. This was reaffirmed with the "truism" 10th amendment that stated this clearly in case anyone missed in their reading of the base constitution. Amendment X The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people. http://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/html/amdt10_user.html#amdt10_hd4 a good writeup explaining this reality. Additionally, keep in mind the wording of the Bill of Rights that are the bedrock of our "rights". It opens with the following: "CONGRESS shall make no law..." again, reasserting its limits stopping at the Federal government. Congress, obviously, doesn't pass laws governing everything that can happen in Pennsylvania or any other state. It wasn't until we got the 14th Amendment that we had the bulk of the Bill of Rights protections forced onto the States and the redefinition of citizenship to the Federal level and away from the States; even this really took until the 1920s to solidify. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_of_the_Bill_of_Rights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Warwagon MVC Posted January 22, 2015 MVC Share Posted January 22, 2015 Wouldn't this just ###### the bully off and have him kick your ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trag3dy Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I like the part where you can just lie and say you don't have a facebook account. Can't make me give up the password to something I don't use. Anyways, this coupled with the fact that the government wants backdoors into cell phones OS and such is kind of the start of a slippery slope right? Slowly eroding away our rights to privacy? remixedcat and psmoked 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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