compl3x Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 Need I remind you that Abdel Hamid El-Hussein wanted to silence free speech against Islam? That's relatively small change compared to the fact that The Organisation of Islamic Co-operation which represents 57 Islamic countries lobbies the UN to implement a global blasphemy law. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/09/25/muslims-blasphemy-law-uk-un-mohammed-youtube_n_1912004.html But I guess they are not real Muslims or don't represent Islam or whatever other excuse guilty Westerners can invent. The Evil Overlord and +Red King 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyarecomingforyou Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Yeah, when I look at the Islamic world the first word which pops to mind is "peace". The same can be said of the Christian and Jewish world, with the US, UK, France and Israel all warmongering states responsible for atrocious war crimes. Have you considered that the issue might be people, not religion? I agree calls for banning of Sharia Law is nonsensical and it is no doubt motivated mostly by irrational fear but that is hardly the same as laws enacted to disadvantage Muslims. The irony is many of the Anti-Sharia activists are probably conservative Christians who would agree with many of the ideas contained within Sharia. That's the problem. Laws are passed to discriminate against Muslims. You don't see states rushing to specifically ban Biblical law being practiced - in fact it is strongly advocated by many Christian groups and pursued in the legislature. As you say, it's hypocritical for Christians to criticise Muslims for Sharia Law when making are seeking to impose the Christian form of it. suggested that there was some organised, sophisticated laws created intentionally to disadvantage Muslims specifically. That is false. Muslims are discriminated against and disadvantaged by many elements of western culture. That was my point and it is valid. I generally agree. Unfortunately, the adherents of Islam seem to have a propensity to violence over being offended. Seemingly much more so than other religionists. And why is that happening? It's because Muslims in countries savaged by western wars The Evil Overlord 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compl3x Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 That's the problem. Laws are passed to discriminate against Muslims. You don't see states rushing to specifically ban Biblical law being practiced - in fact it is strongly advocated by many Christian groups and pursued in the legislature. As you say, it's hypocritical for Christians to criticise Muslims for Sharia Law when making are seeking to impose the Christian form of it. They aren't laws discriminating against Muslims specifically, it is law designed to combat a largely non-existent threat. Even if you had Anti-Sharia laws specifically legislated it wouldn't alter the average Muslims life one iota. It might reenforce a negative stereotype & give your average bigot some ammunition, but it wouldn't effectively end any rights anyone has. Muslims are discriminated against and disadvantaged by many elements of western culture. That was my point and it is valid. It's kind of funny, one minute people argue that Muslims are good, honest, hard-working and usually highly educated members of Western society, and most probably are, the next they are downtrodden and massively disadvantaged. I can't deny that some attitudes towards Muslims is very negative and hostile, good luck finding a country where no prejudice exists, but what part of Western culture is a specific disadvantage? Freedom of religion? Access to education and employment? Rights to healthcare? A lack of civil conflict? Free expression? Freedom of cultural practice? Access to the democratic process? You know, all of those things that are essentially non-existent in the Islamic world? And if the millions of Muslims living peacefully in the west isn't evidence that Islam is compatible then what is? The issue isn't the religion, it's the culture. Pakistan is a backwards country - we know. But the violence there isn't evidence that Islam is incompatible with western values; it's evidence that Pakistani values are incompatible with western values. Saying that Islam is incompatible with Western philosophy and ideology isn't actually that controversial. I've never said Muslims can't live in the West and be positive contributors to the West. I am not a communist, but I could go and live in China and provided I abided by their laws I could prosper there. My views about democracy, capitalism, and civil & human rights would be completely incompatible with the Chinese state's views. In the same way, the liberal, progressive nature of the West is, by and large, incompatible with an authoritarian ideology like Islam. Stop pretending that failed states like Pakistan and Niger represent Islam. So if they were successful it would be considered a fine representation of Islam? Seems hardly fair. Seems like the deck is always going to be stacked in favour of exalting Islam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Red King Subscriber² Posted March 1, 2015 Subscriber² Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) And if the millions of Muslims living peacefully in the west isn't evidence that Islam is compatible then what is? The issue isn't the religion, it's the culture. Pakistan is a backwards country - we know. But the violence there isn't evidence that Islam is incompatible with western values; it's evidence that Pakistani values are incompatible with western values. Perhaps you'd feel that the same way if US drone strikes were killing hundreds of innocent civilians without any repercussions. Perhaps you'd oppose US culture if countless of your countrymen were illegally detained and tortured at Guantanamo Bay. If China was flying drones to take out their dissidents in the UK and inflicting massive collateral damage then I'd reject Chinese culture and seek to oppose it. So many people here seem unable to consider things from other perspectives. Stop pretending that failed states like Pakistan and Niger represent Islam. Some Muslims turned up to the funeral. Big deal. I guarantee that if Tony Blair or George W Bush were assassinated that you'd see hundreds of people turning up to the funeral of the assassin (and not to protest). Heck, there isn't any implication that everyone that turned up at the funeral was a Muslim or supported the killer - some will have attended to support the family or just for the sake of curiosity. Millions of Nazis are also living peaceful lives, but I doubt you would use that as a defensive argument. Pakistan is 97% Muslim thus is a great representation of an Islamic nation. 97% of its people get their values from the Koran - these nations are representative of Islam. Niger is 99% Islam. Maybe France is a better indicator with its fleeing Jewish population? "You are also as bad, therefore I am right" - Classic reasoning there. Also I am interested in your response to my last two points in my previous post. Edited March 1, 2015 by _Alexander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyarecomingforyou Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Millions of Nazis are also living peaceful lives, but I doubt you would use that as a defensive argument. You're comparing Muslims to Nazis?!?! I'm done. This discussion has become ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Red King Subscriber² Posted March 1, 2015 Subscriber² Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) You're comparing Muslims to Nazis?!?! I'm done. This discussion has become ridiculous.Buddy, I can defend Nazism with the same arguments you use for defending Islam.A. Misinterpreted Ideology. B. Most are not violent. C. Most can live just fine in western society. After all not much different when "dozens of schools complained of pupils refusing to join a Jan. 8 nationwide minute of silence for the victims." source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaGinger Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 The English or Arabic one?Both but the Arab 1 was not easy as Im not Arab. astropheed 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 You're comparing Muslims to Nazis?!?! I'm done. This discussion has become ridiculous. Are we forgetting that the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist groups allied with the Nazi's during WW-II? That over 23,000 Muslims served in the 13th Mountain Division of the Waffen SS? That the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem advised Hitler to enact 'The Final Solution' in 1942? Islamo-Fascism isn't a buzzword, it represents a connection between radical Islam and Nazism that persists to recent history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippleman Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 You're comparing Muslims to Nazis?!?! I'm done. This discussion has become ridiculous. The underlying philosophy end game goal of Islam is to dominate the world. You do know this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Overlord Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Where does what end? The radicalisation or the "downcrying"? (I think you mean decrying). It's hard to believe that the Islamic community rejects violence wholeheartedly when a perpetrator of Islamic inspired violence has hundred of mourners. When i kick the bucket I doubt I'll enjoy such an outpouring of grief. My death, however, won't be associated with violence against my fellow citizens. It will probably have more to do with my life-long love affair with pork. + 1 This is the key problem, the radicalisation, I admit I don't have a solution, I'm sure there are think tanks working on this (or should be) It's easy to say quite a lot of what's been posted here, hell, I'm human and I'm inclined to agree with some of the posted comments, but that doesn't mean I do agree with them. What the individual did was wrong, and deserves to burn in hell, but could it have been prevented? I'm beginning to think getting rid of one dictator has only opened up the flood of wannabees, trying to take up the mantle Maybe I just wanted to see my though in a text form, but IS or whatever they're calling themselves this week, were kept in check by 'The Devil you know' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Overlord Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Oh yes. I am reading about that right now happening in 2015. Oh wait that's ISIL and Boko Haram Wow, I never thought of you as narrow minded before, you're going on and on about this with what one could read into, as hatred. If the atrocities of IS are in your opinion if Islam as a whole, then you have to accept the atrocities of Catholicism vs Christianity, KKK, The Colonisation of America, Nazism, and so on. History is littered with Atrocities like these, just using different methods. Hating people isn't the answer, I'm not saying I know what is, but I know this isn't it. What if it all escalates to full blown war? Dirty Weapons? I know no one is going to sit by idly, especially when radioactive fallout would cross borders and then those 'nuclear nations' who did stay out of it, then get involved. Ok blown out of proportion, but it could happen more easily than you'd think, look at the tensions in Russia right now, Before that, the Cold War... theyarecomingforyou 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Overlord Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 huh ? Where, When was this happening ? I hadn't heard a single thing. Come to think of it, me neither, least not locally or nationally in the news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Overlord Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 That's relatively small change compared to the fact that The Organisation of Islamic Co-operation which represents 57 Islamic countries lobbies the UN to implement a global blasphemy law. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/09/25/muslims-blasphemy-law-uk-un-mohammed-youtube_n_1912004.html But I guess they are not real Muslims or don't represent Islam or whatever other excuse guilty Westerners can invent. Quoted from the Article you've posted "The only route left is the legal route. Petitions and protests can only go so far. We want to ask politicians here in the UK and the UN to take action to protect against religious defamation - any religion, not just insults to Islam."I don't have a problem with this, at this time, so long as the any religion clause is upheld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compl3x Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 Religion doesn't deserve any protection from criticism. That is another facet of the authoritarian nature of religion. Frankly, religion seems like something that deserves a heck of a lot more criticism, not less. And yes, criticism would be considered blasphemy right along with drawing of Muhammad or ridiculing of Jesus or mocking of Moses. Additionally, I may be being cynical but for some reason I don't think many religious [people care too much about other peoples' religions being mocked, but only asking for Islam or the Abrahamic faiths to be protected would be slammed as unfair. I cannot fathom a society that would ban blasphemy. I can think of so much great music, comedy, and art which would have never been invented had there been such bans, yet this is what this fascist group of religious thugs want. The Evil Overlord 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torolol Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 to protect against religious defamation - any religion, not just insults to Islam. I inclined to believe that i bold-ed there are cover in projection sense, because i have seen not all religions want blasphemy law. Some of more humane religions even open to debate, to test if their teaching are morally wrong or not. The Evil Overlord 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I don't have a problem with this, at this time, so long as the any religion clause is upheld I do. Why should a person's beliefs be given special protection? If they want to believe something, fine; but then forcing others to respect those beliefs, even if they find them beyond ridiculous, is not acceptable. I'm not religious, and I have zero respect for any of the various religions out there. None whatsoever. I find them all ridiculous and have no intention to ever do anything to salve the emotions of those who chose to be swayed by their nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulATMOS Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 You're comparing Muslims to Nazis?!?! I'm done. This discussion has become ridiculous. You're a member of the left wing lunatics and a traitor! Take him away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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