wireless repeater using old router

[rageagainstmachine]

hi folks, my mum has an apartment in turkey which she gets free wifi from the downstairs bar that owns teh appartments. trouble is its very weak in their apartment and I wondered if i couldset up my old linkys router for them before they go with the intent that they just need to plug it in and they have a boosted signal. would this work? I wouldnt be able to run a caat cable between the primary router an this one, but as i understand thngs, it would still work, al be it, half the theoretical bandwith, is that correct?

 

if this is possible, what do i need to know and do to configure the router before hand for them? is the following all i need from them?

 

router name SSID = ??

Primary Router gateway address so i can set a static IP = ??

primary router Channel so i can configure the AP as something different? = ??

Security Type = ?? 

wireless password =

[Top Qat]

What is the model and firmware version of your Linksys router?

[Tha Bloo Monkee]

nevermind, re-read the post.

[remixedcat]

repeaters are de debil.. they halve your BW and co-channel with your main router and degrade it. wire in an access point instead

[rageagainstmachine]

ye i cant, hence my post. cable is not an option. they may be weak, but its so bad to now it would be an improvement. would doing that degrade the entire newtork for everyone else connecting wirlessly direct to the primary router or just people on the AP?

[Aergan]

ye i cant, hence my post. cable is not an option. they may be weak, but its so bad to now it would be an improvement. would doing that degrade the entire newtork for everyone else connecting wirlessly direct to the primary router or just people on the AP?

 

Considered Powerline adapters to extend your network? You could then plug it into that.

[rageagainstmachine]

thought of that matey, but not sure the hotel bar would be happy about that. would my thinking above not work, albeit not as good as it could be, something is better than nothing surely

[remixedcat]

It would degrade due to co-channeling

[+BudMan MVC]

Where are you going to place this repeater?  It needs a signal to work with.  In this sort of deal where you leeching wifi from location that you can not run a wire, etc.  Or have them better place AP then this would be the best you could hope for.  What router do you have - does it run 3rd party?

 

Here is how you would setup repeater with dd-wrt http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Repeater_Bridge

 

Is wifi suppose to be part of the deal, or just leaching it like she was a customer, just because she lives above it, etc??  If wifi is suppose to be part of the rent - then I would get the owner to place another AP so the apartment(s) can have decent wifi, etc.

 

If wifi is not suppose to be included in the rent, then yeah this prob your best solution even though as stated it does /2 your bandwidth right away.  You could prob just setup a wireless client on your dd-wrt router and put this as close to the bar wifi as possible.  Then run a wire and run your own AP in the best location in the apt for coverage.  http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Client_Bridged

 

example.

 

So the AP in the middle is the bridge to their wifi.  On this device you could use better antenna, directional even to get the most you can out of the bar wifi connection.  Then you run a wire to someplace in the apartment for best coverage.  Now on this new AP you can run your own SSID, your own security, etc.

 

Maybe there is someplace in the building where you can place this bridge where its closer to the bar wifi then actual apt, and run a wire into the apartment for your new own AP?  You could even actually use a wifi router here with double nat and protect your apartment network from the bar wifi network and internet.

[spaceelf]

Without a repeater or bridge my network kit upstairs often gets 5mbit or less or can't even connect.  Using em I can use my full internet connection.

 

I don't really use my routers for any heavy local traffic so I don't really get why people feel the need to diss em.  Powerline has limited range just like wireless, though it can bypass areas of a house wifi has issues with..

[+BudMan MVC]

"Using em I can use my full internet connection."

 

So you have really slow internet to start with then   The proper way to expand, extend wifi coverage is to proper locate and have as many APs needed to properly cover an area.  Repeating this signal or bridging, wireless uplink on AP, etc. is not going to give you an optimal setup.

 

Can they be done in a pinch, or where other constraints dictate options, sure..  But if I am going to give someone advice - I am going to give them the best advice I can for how I would do it, etc.  Repeating/Bridging a wifi connection should always really be the last possible choice - not the first.  It might be easy, but so is running a wire.

 

Here is thing even in just a normal house setup, not talking about leaching a single from a bar you live above, etc.  The wifi router you have is most likely not anywhere near the best location to best cover you house.  People in the US normally have it a bit easier since construction methods of homes use materials that are less prone to killing a wifi signal, unlike other parts of the world where they use other construction methods for their homes, places of business, etc.

 

lets take a house for example, somewhat large home - where is the wifi router? It normal is not in the center.  And homes not always real square like this example.

 

 

Does that seem like optimal coverage to you?  So wouldn't it be better to have some other AP in other locations of the home to better cover them.. What if 2 story?  Wifi doesn't really go up very good, you need to think of a doughnut pattern from the antennas.  Right below or above the coverage is going to pretty much suck ass

 

It would be better for such an example if the AP was here

 

 

Or better yet prob have at min 2 to cover such an area.  You mention upstairs..  Take it your wifi router/AP is downstairs -- yeah that not going to be optimal for sure, you should run a wire upstairs and have another AP there for best coverage/performance..  If can not run a wire easy, then sure you could leverage powerline from your router to where it best to place another AP.

[spaceelf]

If we sliced off half our house that might look about right.  And yes, I have 14mb for my ISP, and I'm still shocked I could even get 5mb considering how long I was stuck on 3G as the best option.

[+BudMan MVC]

I really kind of want to go over why wireless connections between AP is bad idea from a performance point of view.  Can be from an internet access point of view, or even just local access.  Yes the speed of your wifi AP and clients would be a variable to consider, along with what is the max speed of your internet, etc.  Also how many wifi devices do you have?  If its just you and your phone and say tablet/laptop and you don't plan on really using them at the same time you have to consider that.

 

But in a typical household with multiple users allow with wifi connected devices, phones, tablets, laptops, pc's, consoles, roku and chromeast, etc etc.  I have like 15+ wifi devices in my house.  And there is only 3 people in the house..  Could use see a family with bunch a teenagers, etc.

 

Lets say you have this, somewhat typical connection for lots of homes

 

 

You put a repeater somewhere in your house to better cover that area.  So lets think of some basic numbers and attributes of wifi in general.  So we all know its "shared" bandwidth, it is only half duplex. If your router is listening to you talk to it, it can't be talking to other wireless client.  Talking single band router here all clients on same band.  The raw total numbers they give are pure marketing, that N300 router you got sure isn't going to give you real world 300mbps.  So its only 2 streams?  How many streams are you clients?  Lots of clients only 1 for example.  But lets just be basic about and real world lets be optimistic and say 50% so 150mbps - and will forget about lower transmit rates than receive rates.  And just simple layman we have 150mbps to share and all clients can use that full speed when they are talking, we are not going to take into account a client on the edge of the connection slowing everyone down because its only got a 1mbps tx rate, etc. etc..

 

So all the clients talking to the wifi router, Lets call this A clients share 150mbps.

 

Once we repeat/bridge that the other AP is going to be now a client and part of that 150 total that AP has to share.  So if client on A is streaming video from the nas while client on B wants to watch youtube there will be clear contention for bandwidth.

 

So lets say that this repeater/ap also does 150mbps real world.  So now we have all its clients and the connection to the other AP sharing 150mbps.  Keep in mind this wireless connection is like another wifi client to the AP.  If its using that connection it can not be talking to a client, if its talking to a client it can not be sending traffic up/down the link.  So if client on A is watching a video off the nas, what % of the bandwidth is open for all the clients on B to share?  What are all the other wifi clients doing at this time? Again we are half duplex and if A is taking to B - they are not talking or listening to any clients.  They just take turns really fast is all.  What if that NAS is also wireless - see this a lot.  What if client off B is running p2p client?

 

wifi is a limited shared bandwidth pool, quite often shared with lots of clients.  Doing anything that reduces that total pool to add more clients is not good way to go about it.  Be it you want to talk to other devices on your network or off your network like the internet.  Now the newer wifi speeds N with multiple streams, 40mhz channels dual band so you can have clients on 2.4 and 5 both with their own bandwidth pools those clients are sharing it has gotten way better than when you were talking G with total pool of 18-21mbps real world.

 

So if your internet is 100mbps, and client A is talking to NAS taking up 75mbps, your clients on B only have at best 75mbps to share between them and the uplink, so clearly a client B is not going to be seeing 100mbps to the internet.

 

Now if we do it the other way and run a wire

 

Now we still have our optimistic 150mbps each AP is sharing to its clients.  But in this case if a client on A is doing something with the nas and taking up the full 150mbps wireless bandwidth.  This has no effect on any of the clients off the B connection, they are all sharing their 150mbps.  If client wants get to internet it could use the full 150mbps of that AP.  If 2 clients on B want to talk to Nas or internet they are just 2 clients sharing their AP pipe.

 

This is very simplistic examples with  very basic look at what is really happening.  If there is only 1 wifi client around the house, and you have slow internet and you want your client to have good signal then sure a repeater/ bridge setup works to get you more bars.  But it by no means is a optimal way to provide wifi to multiple clients.

 

On a bit of side topic things that can kill wifi for multiple clients or just speed in general - running p2p over wifi that has more than just your 1 client on it, bad idea!!  Talking wifi client to wifi client is /2 of the bandwidth..  How come I can not get my 150mbps I should get when I am connected at 300mbps data rate from my NAS (that is also a wifi client)

 

Wire your NAS, and keep in mind many of these N300/600 routers APs not only exaggerate by using the raw data rate..  You see many a N300 router/ap with a 10/100 wired connection.  This is one of my pet little peeves, its one thing to use marking numbers like the theoretical raw data rate of the wifi protocol.  Its another to expect anyone to get even /2 of that when the wired interfaces on the device are 100, and going to for fact limit you to something real world below 100, at best prob 95, etc.

 

Man that really turned into way longer and way more rambling than I wanted, sorry

 

TL;DR - bridging/repeating wifi not a good idea

 

 

[spaceelf]

TL;DR=my main comp and X1 are wired and I don't give a ###### about the performance of anything else as long as it accesses the internet at full speed

 

(99.5% of the time, zero to one wireless devices are active.  occasionally it goes up to two!)

[rageagainstmachine]

i will read all this info shortly, thanks for providing. no not leaching. its free wifi provided by the apartment owners whom also own the bar/restraut below them at the pool, so its all open/outside, they get a decent signal at their veranda, so the idea would be to pick that signal up around there so they have access anywhere in their appartemnt where the currenlty do not pick anything up.

[+BudMan MVC]

"I don't give a ###### about the performance of anything else"

 

Seems like a pretty crappy attitude towards your network if you ask me   Maybe its just me that likes things to run with with optimal performance, etc.

[spaceelf]

"I don't give a ###### about the performance of anything else"

 

Seems like a pretty crappy attitude towards your network if you ask me   Maybe its just me that likes things to run with with optimal performance, etc.

Yeah, but most of your advice would give me worse performance from the two machines I care about.

 

If I ever upgrade to AC I will move everything around, but for now it works perfectly.

[Kai Y]

You haven't told us what is the model of your linksys router yet, but my guess is that you can't use your router that way if you are using the stock firmware.

 

However, it is likely you can do it if the router can run DD-WRT (never personally tried it though). See this page: http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Universal_Wireless_Repeater (you probably want to follow the instructions to repeat the bar's specific SSID, and not the first signal option in the guide). In general the idea is that you use the router such that the WAN connection is also wireless, so this means you must place the router in a position where there is already a signal.

 

The Universal Wireless Repeater method does have a number of caveats though, e.g. the devices connected to your own linksys access point appear in their own "network" rather than being in the same "network" as the other devices on the bar's access point (but this is more for file sharing at home and such, web browsing is probably not affected). Performance probably is not as good, but I assume your mum just needs a basic serviceable internet connection for web browsing and such, which should be okay.

 

Might want to also see this page: http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Repeating_Mode_Comparisons#Repeating_Mode_Comparison_Table and http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Repeater