Project Morpheus 4 Hour Event at GDC

[+Asmodai MVC]

One of problems with Morpheus is you all ways have to face camera with the move controllers you can never turn 360 degrees.  HTC/valve solution is much better.

Not for me.  I don't want to actually move around my living room and trip over the coffee table and dogs with my vision obstructed by a big headset.  I'm going to use VR sitting comfortably on the couch or at my computer desk.  I have ZERO interest in turning around 360 degrees or actually walking around (that's what the controllers are for) I just want it to track when I look right, left, up or down.

 

Actually moving around is better left to AR where you can actually see if you're going to run into something or for VR to specifically dedicated spaces.  I'm not ready to dedicate a room in my house to VR and I suspect I'm in the majority there.  Maybe at an "arcade" or something that would work but I don't see it being a big deal for home use.

[Melfster]

Not for me.  I don't want to actually move around my living room and trip over the coffee table and dogs with my vision obstructed by a big headset.  I'm going to use VR sitting comfortably on the couch or at my computer desk.  I have ZERO interest in turning around 360 degrees or actually walking around (that's what the controllers are for) I just want it to track when I look right, left, up or down.

 

Actually moving around is better left to AR where you can actually see if you're going to run into something or for VR to specifically dedicated spaces.  I'm not ready to dedicate a room in my house to VR and I suspect I'm in the majority there.  Maybe at an "arcade" or something that would work but I don't see it being a big deal for home use.

 

 

HTC Valve is wireless solution.   Remember you have to point yourself at the camera you move out of the camera range. The move controllers suck.  Ars did article on this and was not impressed with Morpheus.  

People are hyping Morpheus up when they really should not be.  I want to be able turn around at least 270 degrees. You really can't do that with the Morpheus.   If your in flight simulation and you to see someone behind your not going to be able to do that with morpheus.

[+Asmodai MVC]

HTC Valve is wireless solution.   Remember you have to point yourself at the camera you move out of the camera range. The move controllers suck.  Ars did article on this and was not impressed with Morpheus.  

People are hyping Morpheus up when they really should not be.  I want to be able turn around at least 270 degrees. You really can't do that with the Morpheus.   If your in flight simulation and you to see someone behind your not going to be able to do that with morpheus.

 

HTC Valve CONTROLLERS are wireless (or are supposed to be, the demo units aren't currently from what I've read).  The headset is NOT even supposed to be wireless.  I didn't mention anything about wires though so I'm not sure what your point is.  Again I don't want to MOVE so there is ZERO chance I'll move out of camera range.  If I'm sitting on the couch the couch isn't suddenly going to go out of camera range, I'm not going to suddenly end up behind the camera or way off to the side or something.  I'm not going anywhere.  I'm looking around in front of the camera, in range of the camera, at all times.  If I'm sitting on a couch playing a flight simulator I can't see myself trying to crawl around so I can look directly backwards.  As long as it can handle as much as I can rotate my head then that's good enough for me.  I know it handles some rotation, I doubt it's something low like 30 degrees and I don't care if it's not 360 but I'm not sure how close it is to your 270, I haven't seen that specific of numbers.  I'm pretty sure I can't turn my head 270 degrees though... sitting at my desk here it seems like roughly 90 degrees each way for a total of 180... maybe a bit more but certainly not 270.  I can't sit comfortably on a couch and look directly backwards, if you CAN more power to you.

[+Asmodai MVC]

HTC Valve is wireless solution.   Remember you have to point yourself at the camera you move out of the camera range. The move controllers suck.  Ars did article on this and was not impressed with Morpheus.  

People are hyping Morpheus up when they really should not be.  I want to be able turn around at least 270 degrees. You really can't do that with the Morpheus.   If your in flight simulation and you to see someone behind your not going to be able to do that with morpheus.

 

You're wrong anyway, I just looked it up:

 

 

The Development Kit 2 version of the Oculus Rift comes with a tiny webcam, which is used to track LEDs embedded in the headset and provide positional information. However, the LEDs are only positioned at the front of the headset, so it can only track your movements when you're facing towards the camera. Crescent Bay brings 360-degree head tracking and expanded positional tracking to the mix.

Sony has a distinct advantage here though; it uses the PlayStation Camera to provide equivalent tracking, but it's able to locate the back of the head as well as the front so users can look directly behind them. And no, you don't need to be possessed by Captain Howdy to take advantage of this: Sony's The Deep tech demo features fish swimming past the user, who can watch them disappear into the murky depths.

Source

 

So according to them there ARE sensors on the back of the headset for the PS camera to track and you DOES offer 360 degree head tracking.  HTC/Valve has better POSITIONAL tracking, you can move around in a 15'x15' box but I really don't think moving around in that big of a space with a set of googles blocking your view is a good idea unless you have a dedicated room for it or something which I and I suspect most people aren't going to be willing to do.  You can set what your room shape is with HTC/Valve so it will alert you when you get near walls but I'm not going to move the coffee table out of the way and clear everything out of the space every time I want to play a VR game.  Plus the dogs are likely to walk around me and it's not going to handle that at all.  If my vision is being completely obstructed by a headset I want to be in a strictly controlled environment (like a VR arcade room) or stationary.  You can expect there to be lawsuits when people trip over things wearing VR goggles if they're moving all over the place in their living rooms for games.

[Melfster]

You're wrong anyway, I just looked it up:

 

Source

 

So according to them there ARE sensors on the back of the headset for the PS camera to track and you DOES offer 360 degree head tracking.  HTC/Valve has better POSITIONAL tracking, you can move around in a 15'x15' box but I really don't think moving around in that big of a space with a set of googles blocking your view is a good idea unless you have a dedicated room for it or something which I and I suspect most people aren't going to be willing to do.  You can set what your room shape is with HTC/Valve so it will alert you when you get near walls but I'm not going to move the coffee table out of the way and clear everything out of the space every time I want to play a VR game.  Plus the dogs are likely to walk around me and it's not going to handle that at all.  If my vision is being completely obstructed by a headset I want to be in a strictly controlled environment (like a VR arcade room) or stationary.  You can expect there to be lawsuits when people trip over things wearing VR goggles if they're moving all over the place in their living rooms for games.

 

 

Your wrong I just looked it up on Ars

 

"Morpheus demos really require that I hold the Move controllers in front of me while facing the PlayStation Camera, so the system can find the glowing balls atop the controllers. With Vive, my hands could go anywhere, and I could remain confident that the controllers would show up there in virtual space.

As much as I loved the London Heist firefight Sony showed off earlier this week, I know the Morpheus system would never allow me to spin around, 360 degrees, and start firing at enemies coming from behind me. That's because the single PlayStation camera mounted on the TV would easily lose the position of my guns as they disappeared behind my body and arms.

 

With Vive, developers don't have to worry about this kind of problem. I could simply reach out and use my controllers as real hands in any direction, easily opening drawers or pulling cranks or even juggling pieces of virtual bread back and forth (more easily than similar sword juggling in a Morpheus demo, I'd hasten to point out). I could reach up and run my fingers through a school of virtual fish or play volleyball with virtual balloons or draw 3D figures in mid-air with a virtual lightpen, all without really thinking about the artificiality of it all. Being able to reach out and touch the virtual world in this way is nothing short of gleeful."

 

We are not talking about Occulus but HTC/Valve. This is why the move sucks.

[+Asmodai MVC]

Your wrong I just looked it up on Ars

That's talking about something COMPLETELY different.

Ars is talking about the MOVE controllers, the little wand things, in that quote NOT the headset.

The headset DOES track 360 degrees so you CAN look behind if you're playing a flight simulator. That was YOUR example and you are wrong, you said it couldn't track you looking behind you and it CAN.

A flight similar probably isn't going to use the wands at all, you'll probably just use the gamepad for them anyway so Ars point doesn't really apply to the Flight Simulator example that YOU mentioned.

Now for those games that DO use the wands as the controllers (which is NOT every Project Morpheus game. Many, for example driving games and flight simulators will use the gamepad or even wheel controllers) then yes, the camera needs to see the wands so if you turn around so you're standing between the wand and the camera blocking the camera's view then they don't work. If you're sitting on a couch this is unlikely to happen, you'd almost have to intentionally put the wand behind your back. It's only an issue if your standing up and moving all around the room, a scenario I think is extremely unlikely in most living rooms.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

HTC Valve is wireless solution.   Remember you have to point yourself at the camera you move out of the camera range. The move controllers suck.  Ars did article on this and was not impressed with Morpheus.  

People are hyping Morpheus up when they really should not be.  I want to be able turn around at least 270 degrees. You really can't do that with the Morpheus.   If your in flight simulation and you to see someone behind your not going to be able to do that with morpheus.

 

Yeah, damn all those ignorant fools! No fun allowed 

[Melfster]

The way Vive's tracking works is fundamentally different from most other consumer-level VR systems in the offing. The Oculus Rift and Sony's Morpheus both use outside-in tracking systems, each relying on a single stationary camera to find the position of the headset and, in Morpheus' case, controllers. The Vive uses an inside-out system, implementing a series of dozens of small sensors on the headset and controllers themselves, pointing out in all directions.

Those sensors pick out laser signals sent from two small, square Lighthouse transmitters placed in the corners of the room and use those signals to triangulate how the hardware is positioned and oriented in the real world. Crucially, these two transmitters don't have to be plugged in to anything but a wall outlet, freeing the tracking system from being tethered to the hardware powering the VR experience (the headset itself is still hooked to a powerful PC running the whole experience).

 

This why  it is quite different  then Morpheus or Oculus is doing.  Its hard part is input for all VR gadgets

[Melfster]

Yeah, damn all those ignorant fools! No fun allowed 

I think we  all know this going to fail really hard. VR is a nitch.  

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

I think we  all know this going to fail really hard. VR is a nitch.  

 

A what?

[+Asmodai MVC]

The way Vive's tracking works is fundamentally different from most other consumer-level VR systems in the offing. The Oculus Rift and Sony's Morpheus both use outside-in tracking systems, each relying on a single stationary camera to find the position of the headset and, in Morpheus' case, controllers. The Vive uses an inside-out system, implementing a series of dozens of small sensors on the headset and controllers themselves, pointing out in all directions.

Those sensors pick out laser signals sent from two small, square Lighthouse transmitters placed in the corners of the room and use those signals to triangulate how the hardware is positioned and oriented in the real world. Crucially, these two transmitters don't have to be plugged in to anything but a wall outlet, freeing the tracking system from being tethered to the hardware powering the VR experience (the headset itself is still hooked to a powerful PC running the whole experience).

 

This why  it is quite different  then Morpheus or Oculus is doing.  Its hard part is input for all VR gadgets

First I'd like to be clear that I think ALL of the VR stuff is really cool. I don't know why people seem to think they are competing as if only one can survive. Morpheus will be the VR solution for PlayStation games. SteamVR will be the VR solution for Steam games which will likely make it the defacto standard on PCs. Oculus will lead on mobile and have a nice indy PC community as well. They'll all coexist just fine and games will be ported between them just like Eve: Valkyrie is already announced for BOTH oculus and Morpheus I believe even though the APIs and hardware is incompatible (just as Xbox One and PS4 hardware and APIs are incompatible yet games release on both)

All that out of the way I think Valves solution is the best for POSITIONAL tracking. As in moving around. It also scales to multiple users as one set of Lighthouse transmitters can be used by multiple headsets. You can even put different sets of lighthouse transmitters in different rooms and walk between them in theory I believe. It's really cool tech but the problem is that I don't see people using POSITIONAL tracking much in their living rooms. I don't think people are going to want to clear out the space to move around, you basically have to dedicate a room to it and I really don't see people doing that. It seems more like something you'd go to a VR arcade to do with other people than something you'd do at home. I personally think that home VR is going to amount to you sitting in your desk at a computer or on your couch using a console and while you may look around you want be wandering around the space. The Valve tech is cool and all but it just doesn't seem practical for home use. I can totally see someone tripping on their cat and suing Valve because they fell and got hurt trying to roam around their living room with VR goggles replacing their view. Having people flailing baseball bats or swords or whatever without being able to see anything around them in their living rooms is a recipe for disaster. There were enough problems when the Wii first came out and then you could see what you were doing, this would make it even worse.

Also moving around is so limited. You're stuck in a small space of a single room if you're using a paradigm where your actually move to move your character. That's very limiting. If you instead move your character by using the analog stick on the Move navigation controller or the big pad on the Vive controllers then you can move around in an unlimited space and just use Head Tracking to determine where you are looking. So turning and moving forward back and to the sides would be via controller but you'd be able to look around while doing it. That seems safer and less confining (though granted less immersive) then trying to actually walk all around your living room. For the full immersion experience of walking around I think you're going to need to go to like a warehouse or something and rent time to play games with other people kind of like indoor paintball or laser tag.

[GotBored]

 

Project Morpheus coming early 2016.

[spenser.d]

Yep: https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1247702-project-morpheus-4-hour-event-at-gdc/?fromsearch=1

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

 

Was cool to hear him talk about taking the magazines off the table and putting them on the ground for easier reloading.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Sony Morpheus 2015

 

What a difference a year makes. In 2014, Morpheus was a blurry, laggy mess with buzzwords cribbed from Valve and Oculus on a shiny corporate powerpoint template. Were they really going to take VR seriously and deliver on low latency headtracking and high framerate displays with low persistence? How on earth were they going to get the necessary framerate out of a PS4? In stereo? Well I

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]