Why aren't other Windows tablets/hybrids (besides the Surface) selling?

[Forjo]

What? Not from what I have seen - in the tech industry, the "favorites" are Lenovo Thinkpads, Dell/HP, and MBP's. The Surface lineup is a rare find in corporate IT. 

 

I tried my personal SP2 at work - it's a pain in the ass for productivity. The type cover provides a miserable typing experience (along with the useless "touchpad"). I do love the battery life in the SP2 - beats my Dell Latitude by far. Not to mention the SP2 is way more portable than a four pound 14" laptop...My next work laptop request is either going to be a Thinkpad ultrabook. 

 

As much as I want to love the Surface lineup, I can't recommend it at all to anyone, simply because the typing/touchpad experience leave much to be desired. I get that you can use a different keyboard/mouse, but that defeats the purpose, and you're adding unnecessary bulk. Not to mention, the "jack of all trades" convertible approach just doesn't work. It's too heavy/big as a tablet, and it's not a good productivity device because of the poor (expensive) keyboard. I am a big fan of best of breed devices - get a real tablet, and a real laptop, you'll get the best of both worlds, rather than a poor tablet/laptop experience. 

I have several clients using SP2's as their only PC. They are docked. I don't see this as "defeating the purpose. When you are at your desk you can easily use a monitor (or two) and a conventional keyboard and mouse. And when you're not at your desk, you're generally not creating as much content as when you are. The ability to take your desktop workstation with you is a HUGE benefit.

 

And you're the first person I've read that purports to own an SP2 that says it offers a poor tablet experience.

 

Speaking as someone with an SP3, I never type on my lap unless I'm in the car with my wife driving (which is almost never). This is the ONLY use case where the Surface is sub-optimal. But, like everything else in life, if you do it enough, you get used to it and your brain compensates for what at the outset is perceived as a problem. The same is true with the type-cover. I do a LOT of typing on it at desks and conference room tables. I don't even think about it anymore -- just as I wasn't thinking about my typing experience on this Microsoft ergo keyboard at my gaming system. I just type the words and they appear on the screen.

 

As for the touch pad; as I've said in the past -- if you use the touch screen, the touch pad is rarely needed and, thus, not a problem.

 

I feel no frustration using an SP3 and I don't miss my old Latitude E6510 at all. It's a bit humorous to me looking at it (my son uses it now) and remembering carrying that huge thing (and it's charger) around to clients and around the house. Now I have a faster system, cooler lap, lighter load, and a better experience.

 

I guess anything is what you make of it.

 

-Forjo

[Mockingbird]

"The Surface Pro 3 isn't just a laptop" - exactly THE problem with the Surface lineup. It tries to be two things at once, and isn't great at either. That was my whole point of my previous post. 

 

The difference is the iPad doesn't try to be a laptop. It tries to be just a tablet, and a very successful one at that.

 

The SP is light and portable, as are most ultrabooks these days. I had to lug around a six pound 15" laptop in my day

 

No. It's the problem FOR YOU. A lot of students (I can't speak for everyone) don't want to carry around laptops AND tablets. That's why I see a lot of iPads with Bluetooth keyboards attached. The problem with an iPad with a Bluetooth keyboard is that it's a 70% tablet and 30% laptop compromise. The Surface Pro 3 is a 70% laptop and 30% tablet compromise and that's closer to what a student is looking for.

 

Obviously, the Surface Pro 3 isn't going to be 100% laptop and 100% tablet like a dedicated laptop and a dedicated tablet would be, but to carry around two devices would also be a compromise: more weight and less portability.

 

 

Idk, the Surface Pro 3 is a pretty good laptop replacement.  We have given them to management and the reception has been great.  They use it to take notes in meetings as a tablet with one note, they use it to take pictures, they use it as a desktop at their desk with the dock...The only thing I don't really like is the dock, I like the traditional click in and eject button...but that is more personal preference than anything functionality wise.  Compared to a traditional windows 8 laptop or ultrabook, the surface pro is near perfect with the type cover and dock (could make the type cover less flimsy...ok two complaints lol). 

 

The Surface Pro 3 is also popular in lecture halls. I see a lot of people use the Surface Pro 3(s) to take notes in OneNote.

 

I have also seen other students use the Surface Pro 3s to take photos of the in-class lecture notes and of the whiteboards/blackboards, but I have to admit that having big tablets being raised in the air to take photos is pretty distracting.

[tsupersonic]

I have several clients using SP2's as their only PC. They are docked. I don't see this as "defeating the purpose. When you are at your desk you can easily use a monitor (or two) and a conventional keyboard and mouse. And when you're not at your desk, you're generally not creating as much content as when you are. The ability to take your desktop workstation with you is a HUGE benefit.

 

And you're the first person I've read that purports to own an SP2 that says it offers a poor tablet experience.

 

-Forjo

 

At work, we use laptops that we can take home. At our desks, they are docked. They weigh 3-5 lbs depending on which models we get, far superior to the SP in terms of specs. These laptops come with faster i5/i7 CPU's, up to 16 GB RAM, and SSD. If you're going to leave a device docked, might as well get a cheaper device. There are plenty of laptops from Lenovo, Dell, HP, etc. that you can buy at volume discounts compared to the SP.

 

Yes, the SP2 is too bulky and big for a tablet. I am comparing that to a iPad Air, which is easy to lug around, and offers way more apps that I can take advantage of. The iOS ecosystem is far better than what Windows has. Granted, I can run any app. I want on the SP2, but not much of which are tablet optimized.

 

No. It's the problem FOR YOU. A lot of students (I can't speak for everyone) don't want to carry around laptops AND tablets. That's why I see a lot of iPads with Bluetooth keyboards attached. The problem with an iPad with a Bluetooth keyboard is that it's a 70% tablet and 30% laptop compromise. The Surface Pro 3 is a 70% laptop and 30% tablet compromise and that's closer to what a student is looking for.

 

Obviously, the Surface Pro 3 isn't going to be 100% laptop and 100% tablet like a dedicated laptop and a dedicated tablet would be, but to carry around two devices would also be a compromise: more weight and less portability.

 

 

 

The Surface Pro 3 is also popular in lecture halls. I see a lot of people use the Surface Pro 3(s) to take notes in OneNote.

 

I have also seen other students use the Surface Pro 3s to take photos of the in-class lecture notes and of the whiteboards/blackboards, but I have to admit that having big tablets being raised in the air to take photos is pretty distracting.

The thing with the iPad is, you are NOT forced to buy a keyboard. With the Surface Pro, you absolutely need the type cover. Why they don't include it is beyond me, as they advertise it heavily with the type cover. The iPad doesn't try to be a laptop, but the Surface Pro is trying to be a laptop and a tablet, hence why it absolutely is not great at both. Microsoft also compared the SP to the MBA, not iPad.

 

The Surface is definitely not a popular device on the two university campuses I'm on, nor at corporate IT. I feel like an outlier with my SP2 when I do lug it around. For short term use, I'm ok with living the type cover. For extended periods, I absolutely just dread using it. I'd rather have my MBP or my work laptop at that point. The more I use it, the more I realize it's not a device for a power user like me.

[zhangm Supervisor]

The thing with the iPad is, you are NOT forced to buy a keyboard. With the Surface Pro, you absolutely need the type cover. Why they don't include it is beyond me, as they advertise it heavily with the type cover. The iPad doesn't try to be a laptop, but the Surface Pro is trying to be a laptop and a tablet, hence why it absolutely is not great at both. Microsoft also compared the SP to the MBA, not iPad.

 

Some people just prefer to use a BT or USB keyboard that they already own. IMO it's better to force people who want both to purchase them separately, rather than force people who potentially just want the tablet to buy the keyboard with it.

[Clirion]

At work, we use laptops that we can take home. At our desks, they are docked. They weigh 3-5 lbs depending on which models we get, far superior to the SP in terms of specs. These laptops come with faster i5/i7 CPU's, up to 16 GB RAM, and SSD. If you're going to leave a device docked, might as well get a cheaper device. There are plenty of laptops from Lenovo, Dell, HP, etc. that you can buy at volume discounts compared to the SP.

 

Yes, the SP2 is too bulky and big for a tablet. I am comparing that to a iPad Air, which is easy to lug around, and offers way more apps that I can take advantage of. The iOS ecosystem is far better than what Windows has. Granted, I can run any app. I want on the SP2, but not much of which are tablet optimized.

 

The thing with the iPad is, you are NOT forced to buy a keyboard. With the Surface Pro, you absolutely need the type cover. Why they don't include it is beyond me, as they advertise it heavily with the type cover. The iPad doesn't try to be a laptop, but the Surface Pro is trying to be a laptop and a tablet, hence why it absolutely is not great at both. Microsoft also compared the SP to the MBA, not iPad.

 

The Surface is definitely not a popular device on the two university campuses I'm on, nor at corporate IT. I feel like an outlier with my SP2 when I do lug it around. For short term use, I'm ok with living the type cover. For extended periods, I absolutely just dread using it. I'd rather have my MBP or my work laptop at that point. The more I use it, the more I realize it's not a device for a power user like me.

 

While I have the Type Cover.  I do not use it all that much, unless I am logging into work via Horizon View.  Even then I have ejected it.  It is needed about as much for me as the keyboard was on the IPad I owned.  (I have replaced it with the SP2.)

 

I think it more depends on what you are doing, and if you are comfortable with the on-screen keyboard of the IPad/SP2.

[WinMacLin Guy]

"The Surface Pro 3 isn't just a laptop" - exactly THE problem with the Surface lineup. It tries to be two things at once, and isn't great at either. That was my whole point of my previous post. 

 

The difference is the iPad doesn't try to be a laptop. It tries to be just a tablet, and a very successful one at that.

 

The SP is light and portable, as are most ultrabooks these days. I had to lug around a six pound 15" laptop in my day

 

I have to respectfully disagree with you on that. It might not be as portable as a tablet and not as expansive as a laptop (although I would put it on par with an ultrabook), but I have personally found that the dual form factor of this device increases productivity, especially in a class room setting. On a hybrid I can easily switch from typing notes to drawing mode and drawing in diagrams and adding pictures from a lecture. In the past I would do this using a laptop + iPad combo which was very fiddly. Moreover, the Surface Pro and the Surface weigh much less than a iPad + laptop combo (the Surface 3 weighs around the same as an older generation iPad).

[Forjo]

At work, we use laptops that we can take home. At our desks, they are docked. They weigh 3-5 lbs depending on which models we get, far superior to the SP in terms of specs. These laptops come with faster i5/i7 CPU's, up to 16 GB RAM, and SSD. If you're going to leave a device docked, might as well get a cheaper device. There are plenty of laptops from Lenovo, Dell, HP, etc. that you can buy at volume discounts compared to the SP.

I'm happy that your colleagues have access to heavier faster laptops with more RAM. Perhaps they even need that kind of power. But at what point do you stop cherry picking advantages? You tout the power of your laptops, yet don't tout the portability of a Surface. You don't mention the quality of the screen, or the Wacom digitizer, or the excellent battery life. It is easy to find a "faster device". But in doing so you make tradeoffs -- either price, or size, or something else. To completely dismiss the Surface as inferior is to be very selective in your analysis.

And who said anything about leaving a device docked? And where is the logic that suggests that docking is a justification for a cheaper device? Surface provides extreme performance AND portability. And unless you are comparing it to workstation class laptops and desktops, it's specifications are going to exceed the needs of just about any user with the exception of gamers.

 

Yes, the SP2 is too bulky and big for a tablet. I am comparing that to a iPad Air, which is easy to lug around, and offers way more apps that I can take advantage of. The iOS ecosystem is far better than what Windows has. Granted, I can run any app. I want on the SP2, but not much of which are tablet optimized.

And here it is again -- it's ok to use 3-5 lb laptops, but when it comes using the Surface as a tablet, suddenly it's too heavy.

 

The iOS TABLET ecosystem is better than the Windows STORE ecosystem. But the Windows ecosystem BLOWS AWAY every other ecosystem out there. There is no comparison. And the other point that is frequently lost is that apps exist because the WEB experience on iOS is SO BAD. Surface runs full IE, Chrome, Firefox, Flash and Java. Everything on the Internet just WORKS. You don't need apps for every little site. And the so-called idea of "tablet optimized" is a blunt instrument overused as a way of attacking Windows tablets. No one complains about the lack of touch-optimized apps when Windows laptops (like your 3-5 lb versions) are used. But give a person the OPTION of using touch and suddenly touch is the ONLY thing that matters. Again, cherry-picking advantages does not make the Surface an inferior experience.

 

The thing with the iPad is, you are NOT forced to buy a keyboard. With the Surface Pro, you absolutely need the type cover. Why they don't include it is beyond me, as they advertise it heavily with the type cover. The iPad doesn't try to be a laptop, but the Surface Pro is trying to be a laptop and a tablet, hence why it absolutely is not great at both. Microsoft also compared the SP to the MBA, not iPad.

This is another false assumption that just won't go away. Just because the Surface OFFERS an elegant keyboard DOES NOT mean it's required. Microsoft has provided a very nice on-screen keyboard that supports handwriting recognition, multiple sizes and layouts, and includes word prediction. They also have built-in speech recognition that works EXTREMELY WELL even before it's trained. This idea that you are "forced" to buy the type cover is just another example of cherry picking to win a debate.

I also completely disagree with the idea that dual devices are by definition not good at either function. Surface is an amazing tablet, a powerful digitizer, a stunning media consumption device, AND a productivity powerhouse. So what if it isn't perfect when placed on your legs. For every other use case it blows away every solution that existed just a few years ago and a great many available today. Are there better keyboards on laptops? Certainly. Better trackpads? Absolutely. But no other device can do what the Surface can do. And for all of this capability you make VERY few if any compromises. This is more true than ever in the case of the Surface Pro 3 whose keyboard is perfectly fine as a daily driver once your hands learn it. Like anything else, people who actually give it a chance ADAPT; and are able to type just as comfortably and quickly as on almost any other non-ergonomic keyboard (which no laptop offers, by the way).

 

The Surface is definitely not a popular device on the two university campuses I'm on, nor at corporate IT. I feel like an outlier with my SP2 when I do lug it around. For short term use, I'm ok with living the type cover. For extended periods, I absolutely just dread using it. I'd rather have my MBP or my work laptop at that point. The more I use it, the more I realize it's not a device for a power user like me.

No product are service is for everyone as everyone is different. Clearly the Surface is not for you. But that does not mean it isn't perfect for a large segment of market. Perhaps if you didn't switch back and forth between devices you'd like it better; but that's not the point. You do switch and shouldn't have to alter your habits to enjoy a device. Don't buy another. But also, don't assume that your experiences accurately reflect the capabilities and limitations of this device. For me and for my clients, it's been a game changer. It changes the way we work and allows us to do things faster, more comfortably, and with more flexibility. As an IT consultant it allows me to be more responsive in more situations whether at my desk or in the field.

I will never go back to a heavier, non-touch device just because it might have a slightly better keyboard. Extended typing, like this message, is a rarity for me, and that might make me unique. But I don't feel in any way limited or slowed on this keyboard, on this screen, or on this Surface.

-Forjo

[Mockingbird]

The thing with the iPad is, you are NOT forced to buy a keyboard. With the Surface Pro, you absolutely need the type cover.

You are not forced to buy the keyboard. You can use it only with pen and touch if you wish.

 

 Why they don't include it is beyond me, as they advertise it heavily with the type cover.

The official words from the Surface team is that it wants to offer different colors of the Type Cover and having different bundle for every color Type Cover and Surface Pro 3 model would be an SKU issue.

 

The iPad doesn't try to be a laptop, but the Surface Pro is trying to be a laptop and a tablet, hence why it absolutely is not great at both. Microsoft also compared the SP to the MBA, not iPad.

Did you even read what I wrote? Or did you just skip to the reply?

 

I will post it again:

 

"The Surface Pro 3 isn't just a laptop and it's also not for everyone.

 

I spent a lot of time between classes in the library and have also seen a lot of iPad with Bluetooth keyboard in addition to the Surface Pro 3 and the MacBook Air.

 

Without a doubt, I can say that the Surface Pro 3 Type Cover is much better for typing than the iPad Bluetooth keyboard.

 

For students, weight and portability are the utmost concerns and in that sense, the Surface Pro 3 is a god send.

 

It's a one device package that replaces laptops, tablets, paper notebooks, and textbooks.

 

(I hope to get my own personal Surface Pro 3 soon!)"

 

The Surface is definitely not a popular device on the two university campuses I'm on, nor at corporate IT. I feel like an outlier with my SP2 when I do lug it around.

 

Our bookstore sells the Surface Pro 3 (along with the MacBook Air and the MacBook Pro). Clearly, more exposure usually also means more sales.

 

 For short term use, I'm ok with living the type cover. For extended periods, I absolutely just dread using it. I'd rather have my MBP or my work laptop at that point. The more I use it, the more I realize it's not a device for a power user like me.

While a MacBook Pro may have a better keyboard, what it is sacrificing is portability. For a lot of students, weight/portability is the utmost concern. We don't want to each carry around a MacBook Pro and an iPad.

[tsupersonic]

I'm happy that your colleagues have access to heavier faster laptops with more RAM. Perhaps they even need that kind of power. But at what point do you stop cherry picking advantages? You tout the power of your laptops, yet don't tout the portability of a Surface. You don't mention the quality of the screen, or the Wacom digitizer, or the excellent battery life. It is easy to find a "faster device". But in doing so you make tradeoffs -- either price, or size, or something else. To completely dismiss the Surface as inferior is to be very selective in your analysis.

And who said anything about leaving a device docked? And where is the logic that suggests that docking is a justification for a cheaper device? Surface provides extreme performance AND portability. And unless you are comparing it to workstation class laptops and desktops, it's specifications are going to exceed the needs of just about any user with the exception of gamers.

 

And here it is again -- it's ok to use 3-5 lb laptops, but when it comes using the Surface as a tablet, suddenly it's too heavy.

 

The iOS TABLET ecosystem is better than the Windows STORE ecosystem. But the Windows ecosystem BLOWS AWAY every other ecosystem out there. There is no comparison. And the other point that is frequently lost is that apps exist because the WEB experience on iOS is SO BAD. Surface runs full IE, Chrome, Firefox, Flash and Java. Everything on the Internet just WORKS. You don't need apps for every little site. And the so-called idea of "tablet optimized" is a blunt instrument overused as a way of attacking Windows tablets. No one complains about the lack of touch-optimized apps when Windows laptops (like your 3-5 lb versions) are used. But give a person the OPTION of using touch and suddenly touch is the ONLY thing that matters. Again, cherry-picking advantages does not make the Surface an inferior experience.

 

This is another false assumption that just won't go away. Just because the Surface OFFERS an elegant keyboard DOES NOT mean it's required. Microsoft has provided a very nice on-screen keyboard that supports handwriting recognition, multiple sizes and layouts, and includes word prediction. They also have built-in speech recognition that works EXTREMELY WELL even before it's trained. This idea that you are "forced" to buy the type cover is just another example of cherry picking to win a debate.

I also completely disagree with the idea that dual devices are by definition not good at either function. Surface is an amazing tablet, a powerful digitizer, a stunning media consumption device, AND a productivity powerhouse. So what if it isn't perfect when placed on your legs. For every other use case it blows away every solution that existed just a few years ago and a great many available today. Are there better keyboards on laptops? Certainly. Better trackpads? Absolutely. But no other device can do what the Surface can do. And for all of this capability you make VERY few if any compromises. This is more true than ever in the case of the Surface Pro 3 whose keyboard is perfectly fine as a daily driver once your hands learn it. Like anything else, people who actually give it a chance ADAPT; and are able to type just as comfortably and quickly as on almost any other non-ergonomic keyboard (which no laptop offers, by the way).

 

No product are service is for everyone as everyone is different. Clearly the Surface is not for you. But that does not mean it isn't perfect for a large segment of market. Perhaps if you didn't switch back and forth between devices you'd like it better; but that's not the point. You do switch and shouldn't have to alter your habits to enjoy a device. Don't buy another. But also, don't assume that your experiences accurately reflect the capabilities and limitations of this device. For me and for my clients, it's been a game changer. It changes the way we work and allows us to do things faster, more comfortably, and with more flexibility. As an IT consultant it allows me to be more responsive in more situations whether at my desk or in the field.

I will never go back to a heavier, non-touch device just because it might have a slightly better keyboard. Extended typing, like this message, is a rarity for me, and that might make me unique. But I don't feel in any way limited or slowed on this keyboard, on this screen, or on this Surface.

-Forjo

I did say the Surface was more portable, and has excellent battery life! The digitizer is awesome, and while it would be amazing in an education setting, it probably wouldn't be used in a corporate environment (depending on your job). Yes, the standard ultrabook they are handing out at work weighs about 3 lbs, has more ports than a SP3, excellent battery life, and has a touch screen. We can also get other laptops that weigh more, and have more power. It all depends on what the user wants. 

 

I'm saying our ultrabook with a dock comes in cheaper than what MS wants to sell the Surface Pro 3 + dock for (when comparing similar configurations). For our business, the SP lineup ends up being more, and thus not cost effective. For most people at our business, they dock their laptops (use multi-monitors), and some bring their laptops to meetings. We're trying the no-computer meeting, so our meetings are faster, but that's another story. People do take their laptops home, and most are able to remote in. But, you make it sound like carrying 3-4 lbs is a burden lol. A SP is lighter for sure, but if you can't carry 3-4 lbs, you have bigger problems Anyone remember 10-20 years ago when 5 lbs was considered light? 

 

Yes, think about how you use a tablet, in your lap consuming content (at least I do). My SP2 is way too bulky for that (again personal preference). I'm used to real tablets like the Nexus 7, Galaxy tablets or iPad Air/iPad Mini. Those typically weigh far less, and are smaller than any Surface Pro released to date. 

 

You guys go on about not needing the Type Cover. Microsoft aggressively markets the Surface Pro with the Type Cover. There is absolutely no denying that. You could use any old Bluetooth keyboard, sure. In my eyes, to get the full experience of a hybrid "tablet and laptop", you need a keyboard. I for one can't adapt to the SP2's Type Cover keyboard. I typically type 110-130 WPM. The Type Cover allows me to type at most 80-90 WPM but WITH way less accuracy. For me, there's not enough key travel. The SP3 keyboard is slightly better, but still leaves a lot to be desired. You are correct though, it is a very elegant keyboard, love the design and backlit keys (though expensive). Speech recognition is great in a setting where you're alone, but doesn't work in a class room setting or a work environment (unless you have your own office). Handwriting recognition is great, but a lot slower than typing (at least for me). 

 

I'm glad you like the Surface and I hope the device works great for you. I've simply stated my opinions!  I personally need a power house of a computer that is portable, and best in breed system. I don't need a system that pretends to be a tablet. If I want a laptop, I want the absolute best laptop. If I want a tablet, I want the absolute best tablet. These discussions aren't even productive...if the device works for you, use it, simple as that!  

 

You are not forced to buy the keyboard. You can use it only with pen and touch if you wish.

 

The official words from the Surface team is that it wants to offer different colors of the Type Cover and having different bundle for every color Type Cover and Surface Pro 3 model would be an SKU issue.

 

Did you even read what I wrote? Or did you just skip to the reply?

 

I will post it again:

 

"The Surface Pro 3 isn't just a laptop and it's also not for everyone.

 

I spent a lot of time between classes in the library and have also seen a lot of iPad with Bluetooth keyboard in addition to the Surface Pro 3 and the MacBook Air.

 

Without a doubt, I can say that the Surface Pro 3 Type Cover is much better for typing than the iPad Bluetooth keyboard.

 

For students, weight and portability are the utmost concerns and in that sense, the Surface Pro 3 is a god send.

 

It's a one device package that replaces laptops, tablets, paper notebooks, and textbooks.

 

(I hope to get my own personal Surface Pro 3 soon!)"

 

 

Our bookstore sells the Surface Pro 3 (along with the MacBook Air and the MacBook Pro). Clearly, more exposure usually also means more sales.

 

While a MacBook Pro may have a better keyboard, what it is sacrificing is portability. For a lot of students, weight/portability is the utmost concern. We don't want to each carry around a MacBook Pro and an iPad.

See above about keyboard. The pen is great, especially for artists, and note taking. If I was a student, I'd love a device that had this capability. I took notes the old fashioned way - pen + paper, and you can't CTRL + F that  

 

For a tech company, they could easily bundle the Type Cover. For a tech company to make that excuse in 2015, is absolutely ridiculous. There's way to bundle two items. 

 

I've used my iPad Air with a Bluetooth keyboard. Honestly, I can say it was the exact same experience as my Surface Pro 2 + Type Cover (if not worse). My Bluetooth keyboard has far more key travel, but it doesn't have backlit keys. I don't think you understood my post...My point was simple - the iPad is a tablet, and doesn't strive to be a laptop replacement. I've never seen anyone take notes on an iPad (keyboard or not). In my eyes, it's meant for a completely different purpose than the SP. The Surface Pro tries to be a laptop, but imo you need a keyboard to make this happen, whether you go with any old BT keyboard or the (expensive) Type Cover. They should also include it at the price points they charge. 

 

The MBP and MBA are hot sellers and are also very popular at the two universities I work at. I also have an MBP, and it weighs 3.4 lbs, has more ports and power. I'd gladly take it over my SP2 for extended use. My MBP (i5/8GB RAM/256 GB SSD) was also ironically cheaper than the SP2 (w/ edu discount), and has much better specs. I hope the SP lineup improves in the future - I'm highly interested in these devices. At the current point, I can't recommend them, but that could easily change in the future. 

[Mockingbird]

I've used my iPad Air with a Bluetooth keyboard. Honestly, I can say it was the exact same experience as my Surface Pro 2 + Type Cover (if not worse). My Bluetooth keyboard has far more key travel, but it doesn't have backlit keys. I don't think you understood my post...My point was simple - the iPad is a tablet, and doesn't strive to be a laptop replacement. I've never seen anyone take notes on an iPad (keyboard or not). In my eyes, it's meant for a completely different purpose than the SP. The Surface Pro tries to be a laptop, but imo you need a keyboard to make this happen, whether you go with any old BT keyboard or the (expensive) Type Cover.

 

I just want to check. You have the Type Cover and not the Touch Cover, right?

 

I have two people right behind me typing on iPads with Bluetooth keyboard cases.

 

What do you do with a tablet? The Surface Pro 3 is not the ideal tablet to play Angry Birds.

 

And you missed my point over and over again. Carrying around two devices (a laptop and a tablet) carries the weight penalty.

 

The MBP and MBA are hot sellers and are also very popular at the two universities I work at. I also have an MBP, and it weighs 3.4 lbs, has more ports and power. I'd gladly take it over my SP2 for extended use. My MBP (i5/8GB RAM/256 GB SSD) was also ironically cheaper than the SP2 (w/ edu discount), and has much better specs. I hope the SP lineup improves in the future - I'm highly interested in these devices. At the current point, I can't recommend them, but that could easily change in the future. 

 

And I have a desktop back at home (very far away from my school) that's way more powerful and cheaper, but less portable than your MacBook Pro. What's your point?

[Michael Scrip]

Carrying around two devices (a laptop and a tablet) carries the weight penalty.

Personally.... I'd take the slight weight penalty and get two devices that both do what they do best.

 

My portable combo is a 14" traditional Windows laptop ultrabook for "computer duties"... and an 8" iPad Mini for "tablet duties"

 

Yes... my iPad Mini is a 2nd device. But at roughly 300 grams... I don't even notice it in my bag with all my other stuff. It's small and light to easily hold for reading and light web browsing.

 

The Surface Pro 3 tries to be the ultimate convergence device... but it misses the mark for me. 

 

At 12" it's kinda small for a laptop... yet it's kinda big for a tablet. It doesn't seem to be the best of either world.

 

But I'll give Microsoft credit... the SP3 is still a lot easier to handle in tablet mode than other 2-in-1 hybrids.  

 

I've seen 13" to 15" hybrids... who the hell would want a 15" tablet? That would feel like lunch tray in your hand 

[siah1214]

tsupersonic can't seem to comprehend that different people have different use scenarios, some of which the SP3 fit perfectly. 

 

I'd love an SP3 for what I do, just can't afford one right now.  As soon as I have the cash I'm getting one.  Been out of school and on the road for several years. 

[Mockingbird]

Personally.... I'd take the slight weight penalty and get two devices that both do what they do best.

 

My portable combo is a 14" traditional Windows laptop ultrabook for "computer duties"... and an 8" iPad Mini for "tablet duties"

 

Yes... my iPad Mini is a 2nd device. But at roughly 300 grams... I don't even notice it in my bag with all my other stuff. It's small and light to easily hold for reading and light web browsing.

 

I really do think that 8" tablets are on the way out. With phablet getting bigger and bigger, there are fewer and fewer reasons to have a separate 8" tablet.

[Michael Scrip]

I really do think that 8" tablets are on the way out. With phablet getting bigger and bigger, there are fewer and fewer reasons to have a separate 8" tablet.

True... but there's still of world of difference between 5.5" to 6" smartphones and an 8" iPad in terms of screen real estate when you're sittin' on the couch consuming content. (plus tablet-optimized apps)

 

I wouldn't say a phablet is a direct replacement for a small tablet...  but there can definitely be some crossover if you cannot have both.

 

I'm probably an edge case... I have a 4" phone, an 8" tablet, a 14" laptop and two 20" monitors on my desktop.  And they all have their separate use-cases 

 

That's what I was saying earlier... I don't like combining multiple devices into one when it won't give you the best that each of the separate devices have to offer. Large phones are fine... but they're not exactly the same as small tablets.

 

The Surface Pro 3 is a fine device. But in my opinion... its screen size makes it both a too-small laptop and a too-large tablet. That's why I settled on a 14" traditional laptop and an 8" tablet.

 

It works for me

 

Maybe that will change when I eventually get a phablet.  But as the image below shows... there's still something to be had with an 8" tablet.

 

[tsupersonic]

I just want to check. You have the Type Cover and not the Touch Cover, right?

I have two people right behind me typing on iPads with Bluetooth keyboard cases.

What do you do with a tablet? The Surface Pro 3 is not the ideal tablet to play Angry Birds.

And you missed my point over and over again. Carrying around two devices (a laptop and a tablet) carries the weight penalty.

And I have a desktop back at home (very far away from my school) that's way more powerful and cheaper, but less portable than your MacBook Pro. What's your point?

Yep, I have the type cover and not the touch cover. I tried the touch cover in store and it made me cringe!

For me tablets are non productive devices - games, content consumption, and browsing. For playing games, the SP is too big to hold imo.

My nexus 7 doesn't weigh much at all. That paired with a 3.4 lb laptop isn't the end of the world.

@siah1214 -Did you even bother to read my posts thoroughly? I've addressed the situation at hand - the SP lineup is great for some people. It doesn't work for me and I've explained many times why. If it works for you, great use it and enjoy it. I've stated that many times

[Mockingbird]

tsupersonic, on 17 Apr 2015 - 03:13, said:

For me tablets are non productive devices - games, content consumption, and browsing. For playing games, the SP is too big to hold imo.

And that's just it: the students that I know to use the Surface Pro 3 consider the devices for productivity. They use the Surface to take notes in classes, make notes on top of their assigned readings.

 

As far as consumption is concerned, the students use them to watch movies, check Facebook, etc.

 

I have never seen any student uses a Surface to play Fruit Ninja or other games.

 

 

tsupersonic, on 17 Apr 2015 - 03:13, said:

My nexus 7 doesn't weigh much at all. That paired with a 3.4 lb laptop isn't the end of the world.

The weight of that laptop alone is almost twice the weight of the Surface Pro 3 and that weight alone is already too much for students to carry around campus all day.

 

If weight isn't much of a concern to you, then the Surface isn't for you. You can get a device that is more powerful and with a better keyboard but bulkier and heavier for a lower price.

[tsupersonic]

And that's just it: the students that I know to use the Surface Pro 3 consider the devices for productivity. They use the Surface to take notes in classes, make notes on top of their assigned readings.

 

As far as consumption is concerned, the students use them to watch movies, check Facebook, etc.

 

I have never seen any student uses a Surface to play Fruit Ninja or other games.

 

 

The weight of that laptop alone is almost twice the weight of the Surface Pro 3 and that weight alone is already too much for students to carry around campus all day.

 

If weight isn't much of a concern to you, then the Surface isn't for you. You can get a device that is more powerful and with a better keyboard but bulkier and heavier for a lower price.

Thats hilarious...since when is it such a burden to lift 3.4 lbs? . That's the funniest thing I have read all day. When I went to college, 5-6 lbs was typical for laptops.

Exactly, who would want to play angry birds or fruit ninja on a heavy thick device? I've already said many times different folks have different requirements. If it works for you, great. Also, I'm mistaken, the ultrabook we hand out at work is 2.75 lbs. Shockingly light, has tons of built in ports (thank you Dell enterprise series), awesome battery life from what I've heard, port connector at bottom of the laptop (again thank you Dell enterprise series). This paired with a Nexus 7 (340 grams, or .75 lbs) or other tablet is a light factor. For me personally, this would be an ideal combo. For reference, the SP3 with type cover and pen weigh about 2.5 lbs, which is less for sure.

[Mockingbird]

tsupersonic, on 17 Apr 2015 - 14:30, said:

Thats hilarious...since when is it such a burden to lift 3.4 lbs? . That's the funniest thing I have read all day. When I went to college, 5-6 lbs was typical for laptops.

 

I thought you were going to say: "Back in my days, I had to carry three heavy textbooks and a dictionary in my backpack."

 

Anyhow, to carry around a 6 lbs laptop along with other things is now considered unacceptable by a lot of students.

[siah1214]

@siah1214 -Did you even bother to read my posts thoroughly? I've addressed the situation at hand - the SP lineup is great for some people. It doesn't work for me and I've explained many times why. If it works for you, great use it and enjoy it. I've stated that many times

Yet you keep arguing with people about why the SP3 ISN'T a good fit for them. If you truly felt that you'd say "Hey everyone has different needs" and move on, yet you insist on contradicting illegaloperation.

 

Let me say it again: For many people, the Surface is an ideal tablet AND an ideal laptop.  These people don't want to carry around 2 devices.  That is perfectly fine. You are happy with your 7 in tablet and an ultrabook.  If you want to carry around 2 devices, GREAT! There's nothing wrong with that.  Why do you keep arguing? 

[SoCalRox]

Wow... I started out with portable computers carrying around the original Compaq. 3 to 5 pounds is nothing! 

 

But I would hold that college kids are trend followers (and I do not mean that in a pejorative way) and tend to get what their buddies get. I know my stepsons are that way. That's not a negative comment about any given product, simply an observation of way too many years of life.

 

One of the stepsons came home with a Surface and I asked why he chose it. He told me about two buddies who had them.

 

Same as it ever was...

[Mockingbird]

For better or for worse, the Surface is becoming synonymous with Windows tablets the same way that (Samsung) Galaxy is becoming synonymous with Android phones/tablets.

 

When people at my school mentions Windows tablet, they don't mean the Dell Venue Pro, Asus Transform Book, nor HP Stream: they literally mean the Surface.

[Tech Star]

UCSB!  

 

But yeah, all other tablets suck from the Windows world. They all have a bunch of problems and can't live up to expectations. I would stick to an iPad or a Surface until the Windows 10 tablets come around. Things are going to be much better then! 

[Mockingbird]

UCSB!

 

 

But yeah, all other tablets suck from the Windows world. They all have a bunch of problems and can't live up to expectations. I would stick to an iPad or a Surface until the Windows 10 tablets come around. Things are going to be much better then! 

 

I don't know why you think that Windows tablets are going to be much better once Windows 10 comes out. Maybe I am just being overly pessimistic, but I have been disappointed so many times before.