15% boost from DX12?

[XorpiZ]

According to this article, DX12 might give a boost around 15% to the XB1s performance.

 

http://www.redgamingtech.com/esram-performance-improves-15-dx12-info-xbox-one-analysis/

 

Heres the tweet in question:

 

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[Polonium]

Time will tell I guess. Right now its all speculation. Let's see where we are in 12 months time

[GotBored]

lol i'll believe it when i see it.

[Skiver Veteran]

Well given that this theory is given from someone outside of MS I don't see why it's that difficult to swallow? I don't think anyone can deny that software opimisations are always going to be the way these consoles get better over time. Look at the XB360 and the PS3, the games that were being pumped out at the beginning of the consoles history compared to those at the end, were pretty different in complexity and visuals.

 

Better tools and better software is going to make these things "more powerful", IMO that is just a fact. Not one limited to the XB1 in anyway and the PS4 will get similar opitmisations in exactly the same area's over time. Benefit for MS is that DX12 is not a console specific piece of code, so it has probably been in the works for a lot longer than Sonys attempts, however when you're already ahead, the competitor is always playing catch-up.

[XorpiZ]

lol i'll believe it when i see it.

 

Thanks for the constructive post.

 

There's no doubt that there WILL be some sort of performance increase. How much, depends entirely on the developers of course. But DX12 should make it much easier to use the ESRAM.

 

I'll take Brad Wardells word over yours though.

[Elliot B.]

According to this article, DX12 might give a boost around 15% to the XB1s performance.

 

http://www.redgamingtech.com/esram-performance-improves-15-dx12-info-xbox-one-analysis/

 

Heres the tweet in question:

 

That'll be an optimized demo.

 

Even a 5% general increase across all games is better than nothing, though

[George P Global Moderator]

That'll be an optimized demo.

 

Even a 5% general increase across all games is better than nothing, though

How much of a boost you get depends on how you coded the game really. We know that DX12 will give you big gains on the CPU side, up to 50%, so if your game is being slowed down by the CPU work, which effects frame rates, you'll see a bigger boost.

 

MS also said you'll get a GPU boost, fable legends saw a 20% GPU performance boost, so on both sides of the hardware you'll see gains, it depends what's used more of the two. The above post also talks about ESRAM gains, that's yet another part of it along with the other two, better ESRAM performance gives you overall bandwidth gains across the CPU and GPU.

 

If you code things right you can get gains out of all three pieces of hardware and then we could be looking at anywhere from 5% to over 20% depending on the game.

[MikeM97]

lol i'll believe it when i see it.

 

[Hedon]

Great news for sure. I have seen other developers say that they are getting 50% increases as well. All GREAT news for gamers. Glad these numbers have been confirmed by developers.

[spacer]

Sounds cool if true. I can't wait to see what that means for game performance. Maybe we'll get 4 player co-op in Ryse 2.

[Vigilant]

15% boost seems completely reasonable for games coded specifically to DX12. I wouldn't expect an automagic 15% increase across the line.

Taking down the resources needed for CPU bound tasks will absolutely increase speed of tasks going to the GPU. But there are soooo many different variables before that becomes a reality. I don't think we will see that kind of performance improvement until at the very very earliest late this year for third party games. I'd imagine that first party games are probably running test builds now to optimize for this as much as they can. Second party games like the new Tomb Raider games will probably see a benefit about as quickly as first party games.

The general take away I have seen with DX12 is that it will help developers make better games when their entire development toolset gets updated to take advantage of DX12. Unless the engine developers behind most of these games are working with Microsoft now to get the tools in peoples hands as we speak I wouldn't expect a major payoff.

XB1's implementation of ESRAM, plus the better hardware prioritization from not requiring a Kinect, plus DX12 gives a substantial increase in resources that will make a substantial difference in performance. Speaking from a background of working with developers day to day I will say that Microsoft would need to be seeding regular builds to developers immediately for games that aren't controlled by them to see a benefit this year.

Microsoft has a very good reputation for this type of thing, and they could very well pull off an extra 15% easily if they are working with the vendors down the toolset chain and developers as closely as possible. Realistically I'd imagine that most games coming out this year are probably in some form of a code freeze for anything at this low of a level.

Developers are probably focusing on optimizations on map design, game play mechanics, and level of detail for an engine that they are comfortable working on to close out 2015. If they aren't working on DX12 optimized code now in the engine I would think it would be difficult to give everyone working on more customer facing code to see the benefits.

[PaulATMOS]

Hopefully enough to get more Xbox One games at the 1080p 60fps level.

[trooper11]

I think some seem to be reacting negatively because of some kind of assumption about the competition. Don't worry, this is not a vs thing and wont play into the console debate.

 

Let's just be supportive of a better gaming experience thanks to software optimization.

[GotBored]

I think some seem to be reacting negatively because of some kind of assumption about the competition. Don't worry, this is not a vs thing and wont play into the console debate.

 

Let's just be supportive of a better gaming experience thanks to software optimization.

 

Its not a vs thing, its more of a 'I've been told this a bunch of times already and nothing happened" thing.

 

The cloud, the esram, untapped kinect resources, win10 update and now dx12.

 

Apparently every new update brings with it a huge graphics boost, it would be doing 4k gaming at 120fps by now if all the hype ended up being true but right now it still struggles to achieve 1080p 60fps.

[123456789A]

Its not a vs thing, its more of a 'I've been told this a bunch of times already and nothing happened" thing.

 

The cloud, the esram, untapped kinect resources, win10 update and now dx12.

 

Apparently every new update brings with it a huge graphics boost, it would be doing 4k gaming at 120fps by now if all the hype ended up being true but right now it still struggles to achieve 1080p 60fps.

 

I think the only update that has given any boost was the one where Kinect could be disabled. I don't know the other things you are talking about.

[XorpiZ]

Its not a vs thing, its more of a 'I've been told this a bunch of times already and nothing happened" thing.

 

The cloud, the esram, untapped kinect resources, win10 update and now dx12.

 

Apparently every new update brings with it a huge graphics boost, it would be doing 4k gaming at 120fps by now if all the hype ended up being true but right now it still struggles to achieve 1080p 60fps.

 

If you really believe the release of the Kinect-ressources didn't do anything, you should start reading more.

 

And spare the hyperbole. It's not really necessary. Also, XB1 can do 1080p/60fps with no problems. Shouldn't be necessary to tell you that, since I assume you know it already..

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

Thanks for the constructive post.

 

There's no doubt that there WILL be some sort of performance increase. How much, depends entirely on the developers of course. But DX12 should make it much easier to use the ESRAM.

 

I'll take Brad Wardells word over yours though.

MS has said the same thing with every generation of DX that i can remember. Before 10 came out they said the same thing.... and 10 was a resource hog. DX11 was pretty good, but still bogged down performance.

 

I remember when DX9 came out and HDR was all the rage. Graphics cards that supported DX9 couldnt handle it at all.

 

Time will tell, of course, but let's revisit this thread again in the future to see who's right!

[spaceelf]

I would assume sane people recognize that 15% is not going to bring about 1080p60 on every title, but it will make them all perform better nonetheless.  More stuff drawn.  More audio.  More AI.  Whatever.

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

now, my math here might be way off. someone correct me otherwise:

 

i'm assuming that when there is talk of 900p and 1080p, they mean 1920x900 and 1920x1080. Honestly, i dont know if that's true. That means there's a difference of 16.6% in the number of pixels. Is MS suggesting that w/ a 15% performance increase they'll be able to push 1080p now?

 

Or, is is that 30fps locked titles can now run at 34.5fps?

 

can anyone tell me if 900p really means 1920x900? or is it some skewed horizontal pixel count that no one talks about?

[spaceelf]

now, my math here might be way off. someone correct me otherwise:

 

i'm assuming that when there is talk of 900p and 1080p, they mean 1920x900 and 1920x1080. Honestly, i dont know if that's true. That means there's a difference of 16.6% in the number of pixels. Is MS suggesting that w/ a 15% performance increase they'll be able to push 1080p now?

 

Or, is is that 30fps locked titles can now run at 34.5fps?

 

can anyone tell me if 900p really means 1920x900? or is it some skewed horizontal pixel count that no one talks about?

likely 1600x900.  And a 30fps lock is usually done to keep the framerate steady and keep the game from draining resources drawing things it doesn't need to, not because it can't go faster.  If some titles are locking at 30fps when they get a steady 45fps unlocked though, who knows?

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

likely 1600x900

how come no one talks about the horizontal, only the vertical? That's a huge difference in pixels if that's true. There's no way a 15% performance boost is going to amount to anything. perhaps like you said earlier, though: it's about increasing object detail, more AI, better sound or something else.

[spaceelf]

Well, if you search for 900p, that's what comes up.  People don't necessarily know about it being called that though, heck I didn't I just assumed it and went looking.

[vcfan]

the PIX esram profiler isn't really a dx12 feature but more so an SDK feature, so add that to the new dx12 features coming, the extra 7th cpu core and we're looking at some awesome gains. 

[Hedon]

Its not a vs thing, its more of a 'I've been told this a bunch of times already and nothing happened" thing.

 

The cloud, the esram, untapped kinect resources, win10 update and now dx12.

 

Apparently every new update brings with it a huge graphics boost, it would be doing 4k gaming at 120fps by now if all the hype ended up being true but right now it still struggles to achieve 1080p 60fps.

 

Sadly, the PS4 and Xbox One struggle with 1080p and 60fps. That will be the case going forward. These machines are way under powered.

[Seketh]

MS has said the same thing with every generation of DX that i can remember. Before 10 came out they said the same thing.... and 10 was a resource hog. DX11 was pretty good, but still bogged down performance.

 

I remember when DX9 came out and HDR was all the rage. Graphics cards that supported DX9 couldnt handle it at all.

 

Time will tell, of course, but let's revisit this thread again in the future to see who's right!

 

Oh god, not this again. DX versions don't give you performance or quality boosts, they allow developers to take advantage of the new/better APIs to improve performance and graphical quality. This takes time. Looking at the last DX9 generation games and the (now) last DX11 generation games, the difference is pretty obvious.

 

DX12 is indeed a little different from previous version because it basically changes how the APIs "talk" to the hardware, improving efficiency and performance.

 

Now, a DX11 game won't get a performance boost just because Windows 10 is running DX12. The first DX12 games also won't also have dramatic performance increases, but considering specific renderings, a DX12 game can theoretically offer up to ~50% better performance, the Star Swarm benchmarks already proved that.