15% boost from DX12?

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

Oh god, not this again. DX versions don't give you performance or quality boosts, they allow developers to take advantage of the new/better APIs to improve performance and graphical quality. This takes time. Looking at the last DX9 generation games and the (now) last DX11 generation games, the difference is pretty obvious.

 

DX12 is indeed a little different from previous version because it basically changes how the APIs "talk" to the hardware, improving efficiency and performance.

 

Now, a DX11 game won't get a performance boost just because Windows 10 is running DX12. The first DX12 games also won't also have dramatic performance increases, but considering specific renderings, a DX12 game can theoretically offer up to ~50% better performance, the Star Swarm benchmarks already proved that.

you completely contradicted yourself in every way here.

 

i'd also argue that DX versions do give quality boosts - HDR, ambient occlusion, shader models 1-5.0, tessellation...

 

also, i said nothing about DX12 automatically giving better performance. obviously a game will have to be coded to use DX12's features.

[spaceelf]

Now, a DX11 game won't get a performance boost just because Windows 10 is running DX12. The first DX12 games also won't also have dramatic performance increases, but considering specific renderings, a DX12 game can theoretically offer up to ~50% better performance, the Star Swarm benchmarks already proved that.

I think Mantle games have already proven that DX12 and Vulkan will offer dramatic performance increases.

[LaP]

I think some seem to be reacting negatively because of some kind of assumption about the competition. Don't worry, this is not a vs thing and wont play into the console debate.

I don't think it has anything to do with an assumption about the competition.

If the title would be "A demo optimized for DirectX 12 see a 15% increase in performance" i don't think anybody would have a problem with that. It's a demo. We all know they mean next to nothing when it comes to real world performance. So asking if DirectX 12 will bring a real world performance increase of 15% on average based on a demo is very close to a sensational title.

[XorpiZ]

I don't think it has anything to do with an assumption about the competition.

If the title would be "A demo optimized for DirectX 12 see a 15% increase in performance" i don't think anybody would have a problem with that. It's a demo. We all know they mean next to nothing when it comes to real world performance. So asking if DirectX 12 will bring a real world performance increase of 15% on average based on a demo is very close to a sensational title.

 

There's a lot of other stuff in the article. You should read it!

[LaP]

Sadly, the PS4 and Xbox One struggle with 1080p and 60fps. That will be the case going forward. These machines are way under powered.

At this point i think people can forget 1080p.

But honestly 1080p30 is perfectly fine for offline games imo. For online multiplayer games they just have to reduce the gfx quality to achieve 60fps who really care about the gfx quality of a competitive online game anyway.

[Showan]

I don't like Gaming Bolt at all.  But it seems that Brad Wardell is really championing DX12

 

 

image: http://gamingbolt.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/xbox-one-amd.jpg

 

 

Brad Wardell and his team at Stardock Studios are working on Ashes of Singularity, one of the first games that will be supporting DirectX 12. Wardell has been pretty vocal regarding his support for DirectX 12 in the past, and rightly so given the number of performance improvements that the new API offers.

 

Gamingbolt

[LaP]

There's a lot of other stuff in the article. You should read it!

 

I can't the web site is blocked. But honestly i don't really care. It's the same story every time a new gpu arch, a new cpu arch or a new version of directx is coming out. They promise the moon and they deliver the same real world small increment (which is perfectly fine). We will know how good is directx 12 when we will be able to run real new games with both dirextx 12 and directx 11. For now it's just words. I would not be surprised if DIrectX 12 brings the same improvement as Mantle. If you are cpu bottlenecked you will see a huge boost (either because the game is cpu intensive or your gpu is better than your cpu). If you are gpu bottlenecked  the gain will be marginal.

 

Current gen consoles have week cpu so they will see an improvement for sure (if Sony brings Vulkan to PS4). But their gpu will remain weak.

 

It's already possible to do close to 1080p with a weak cpu and good gpu. I have a very weak almost 6 years old core i5 750 but i have a gtx 970. I can do 1080p50 in almost all games at max settings even the new ones. So seeing how hard it is for those new consoles to even achieve 1080p30 (Bloodborne) i would say their gpu is probably as weak as the cpu. Vulkan and Directx 12 unless proven otherwise will not change that.

[XorpiZ]

I can't the web site is blocked. But honestly i don't really care. It's the same story every time a new gpu arch, a new cpu arch or a new version of directx is coming out. They promise the moon and they deliver the same real world small increment (which is perfectly fine). We will know how good is directx 12 when we will be able to run real new games with both dirextx 12 and directx 11. For now it's just words.

If you don't care, why are you commenting on it?

 

You enter my thread, call the title "near sensationalist", but you don't really care and haven't read the article..

[LaP]

If you don't care, why are you commenting on it?

 

You enter my thread, call the title "near sensationalist", but you don't really care and haven't read the article..

 

I do think the title is a little bit sensationalist. I understand you asked a question but it's a question that can't be answered right now no matters what the article might say. We will be able to answer it only when the final product will be in the hands of techies doing real world test with new games supporting both directx 11 and 12.

 

It's not that I don't care. I did not chose my word wisely. I'll surely read it tonight and i thank you for posting it.

 

It's just that I've been there and done that many many many times in the past. Demoes are not reliable. Benchmarks ain't either.

 

I agree with Ryan Smith from Anandtech who said in his Directx 12 preview last month :

 

"That said, any time we

[trooper11]

Its not a vs thing, its more of a 'I've been told this a bunch of times already and nothing happened" thing.

 

The cloud, the esram, untapped kinect resources, win10 update and now dx12.

 

Apparently every new update brings with it a huge graphics boost, it would be doing 4k gaming at 120fps by now if all the hype ended up being true but right now it still struggles to achieve 1080p 60fps.

 

What does the cloud, esram, or win10 have to do with updated performance for the X1?  Sounds like your just throwing out key words randomly seen on forums.

 

Your really trying to take this into a direction it doesn't need to go. MS has only claimed performance boosts when opening up more resources to developers.  They haven't made the extreme claims as you are trying to do here.

 

DX12 could offer better performance if it offers developers a more efficient way of tapping into existing hardware. Besides, if the best case scenario is 15% overall, we are not talking about an extreme claim here. 

 

The latest SDK for the X1 made it easier for developers to make use of the esram as well as opening up previously reserved resources. Further improvements to the SDK can improve performance as it would on any other device.

 

 

now, my math here might be way off. someone correct me otherwise:

 

i'm assuming that when there is talk of 900p and 1080p, they mean 1920x900 and 1920x1080. Honestly, i dont know if that's true. That means there's a difference of 16.6% in the number of pixels. Is MS suggesting that w/ a 15% performance increase they'll be able to push 1080p now?

 

Or, is is that 30fps locked titles can now run at 34.5fps?

 

can anyone tell me if 900p really means 1920x900? or is it some skewed horizontal pixel count that no one talks about?

 

 

They can already push 1080p now, any boost would just result in say better framerate or better effects @ 1080p.

 

So depending on the game, that could mean it is now playable @ 1080p when before the framerate was too low to support that. So, for example, maybe it means KI can now run at 1080p/60 instead of 900p/60 as it is now. It all depends on how the game is coded and performance was already close to being acceptable at a higher resolution.

[Psion7]

DX12 will bring improvements for new games that make use of these new features but older games won't see any improvement unless updated by the developers which is unlikely to happen as it never has happened in the past.

 

As for the 15% number those numbers are largely made up for some very specific demo. A demo is very different from a whole game though. I doubt the updates to DX12 is going to be enough to get all future games running at 1080p30.

 

I think we all know that the Xbox One is going to be a 900p30 console for the most part with exceptions for certain types of games (e.g. Forza) that can push to 1080p30 or the very few games (e.g. FIFA) that can do 1080p60.

[MikeM97]

DX12 will bring improvements for new games that make use of these new features but older games won't see any improvement unless updated by the developers which is unlikely to happen as it never has happened in the past.

[theyarecomingforyou]

But honestly 1080p30 is perfectly fine for offline games imo. For online multiplayer games they just have to reduce the gfx quality to achieve 60fps who really care about the gfx quality of a competitive online game anyway.

I strongly disagree. As a PC gamer I find it horrible to play ports that only run at 30fps, like LA Noire or BRINK. For me it ruins games. I appreciate that not all gamers can afford decent PCs to run games at 60fps but that's the tradeoff for consoles being so cheap. But please, don't try to paint 30fps as "perfectly fine" - at best it's tolerable.

 

If DX12 helps to improve performance and reduce the CPU bottleneck, which hasn't been reduced even with the introduction of six and eight core processors, then that's great.

[Mando]

the perf boosts is more than possible, as more games are coded and optimised for DX12 (on all 3 platforms) we all should see the benefit of direct hardware access to GPU/RAM across the board.

[spaceelf]

DX12 will bring improvements for new games that make use of these new features but older games won't see any improvement unless updated by the developers which is unlikely to happen as it never has happened in the past.

It might.  My 3dmark API tests for DX11 were much higher with AMDs DX12 drivers than with their DX11 drivers.

[MikeM97]

It might.  My 3dmark API tests for DX11 were much higher with AMDs DX12 drivers than with their DX11 drivers.

 

Things got better it seems ...