Oklahoma Frat Boys Caught Singing 'There Will Never Be A N***** In SAE'

[seta-san]

seriously. who was being discriminated against? were blacks actually denied access to something? sorry, being made to FEEL discriminated against isn't the same as BEING discriminated against. if you can show that blacks were actually actively denied the ability to join the frat based on race then we can talk. if you can show that blacks were denied access to frat events then we can talk. otherwise all we have here is hurt feelings and college, as a place to for people to grow as adults, sheltering students from hurt feelings keeps their students in a state of childishness. when students leave the ivory tower the whole world we come for them and all it will take to defeat them is a few hurtful words.

 

the only lesson to learn from this is that you gain power in college and society by being a victim. and the bigger the victim you act like the more power you get.

[oldtimefighter]

seriously. who was being discriminated against? were blacks actually denied access to something? sorry, being made to FEEL discriminated against isn't the same as BEING discriminated against. if you can show that blacks were actually actively denied the ability to join the frat based on race then we can talk.

I can't believe am being baited into this but before you start holding your breath and stomping your feet...

 

The SAE chapter at OU hasn't had a black student pledge in 14 years. Today, we see a video of members of said fraternity (which is a sanctioned organization at OU) chanting "There will never be a ###### in SAE. You can hang him from a tree, but he can never sign with me.". You just need a hostile environment for discrimination changes. Gee Wally, you think this may qualify?

 

Forget the discrimination angle...  We have already explained to you SAE has violated the school's code of conduct. You do understand OU is in the businesses of attracting to students to their university and this is bad for business. Yes? Case closed... Please stop embarrassing yourself and educate yourself before making idiotic statements. Goodbye...

[seta-san]

1. I don't care about codes of conduct or speech codes on a federally funded campus. The right to free speech should be absolute. Unfortunately the right to free speech is essentially the right to be an ######.

2. If OU cared about the 'business' aspect they would stop taking public money. Can't be both public and private at the same time. Accepting public money means following public rules.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.". This is federal law NUMBER ONE

3. The only valid argument against this frat is that there hasn't been a single black pledge in years. In that case the frat should be punished but not individual member

[Zinomian]

1. I don't care about codes of conduct or speech codes on a federally funded campus. The right to free speech should be absolute. Unfortunately the right to free speech is essentially the right to be an ######.

2. If OU cared about the 'business' aspect they would stop taking public money. Can't be both public and private at the same time. Accepting public money means following public rules.

3. The only valid argument against this frat is that there hasn't been a single black pledge in years. In that case the frat should be punished but not individual members.

 

Actually, you would need congress or the state department or even the Judicial branch here to intervene here if the civil rights of the students are violated.  However, the university is a private entity which receives federal funding, but continues to be a PRIVATE entity, and thus able to have their own rules. (boy's scouts comes to mind).

 

As I've said before, a private entity may enact their own rules......Now, even if they were a fully state own entity and operated by the federal or local government, i am quite sure they would still have some sort of code of conduct to attend the school, which this act would probably violate.

 

Keep in mind, that what we saw in the video could be considered hate speech, which i believe it is indeed illegal, and could land these students in hot water if the federal government wants to press charges (i doubt it, and odds are what they said could indeed be interpreted as free speech.)

 

Now, for those looking to simply bash seta, keep in mind, that if these students where affiliated to the KKK, and where vocal about their views, the government COULD NOT remove them or ban them from the institution, since it would be illegal to discriminate against them!!!!!!!  Very very very delicate balance here.....

[Mockingbird]

since looking at this myself. I say that they shouldn't be punished.

 

the reason?

the college accepts federal funds. because of this the right to free speech should be absolute. I'm sick of seeing colleges being turned into hug boxes with speech codes.

 

you don't like what they said? so what?

did it hurt your feelings? were you offended? so what.

 

we should all collectively be upset that these people's right to free speech is being trampled on, no matter how disgusting the speech was.

 

Freedom of speech is NOT freedom from responsibility.

 

Freedom of speech means that they can say what they want and not go to jail. It doesn't protect them from being expelled or imposed upon some other punishments.

[Ryoken]

Freedom of Speech means the Gov't won't punish you for saying something.

 

It has NOTHING to do with anyone else punishing you. Taking Federal Funds or not, University are (mostly) Private institutions, and free to take action. Same way Boeing gets federal money, but can still kick your ass out if you say something they don't like.

Accepting Public Funds doesn't make them any less a Private Institution. As has been backed up MANY times in court. 

 

Anyway they got what they deserved. Their Frat is shutdown, they have all been kicked out. And the two leaders have been Expelled.

 

Also as mentioned, they still would have violated the code of conduct they agreed to when they started at the school. They are lucky the school didn't expel everyone they could see in the video.

[Ian W]

we should all collectively be upset that these people's right to free speech is being trampled on, no matter how disgusting the speech was.

I think you're grossly misinterpreting what the right to "free speech" means. Freedom of speech, as defined by the U.S. Constitution, pertains to Congress and it being prohibited from making laws that abridge the freedom of speech. It does not mean that one is exempt from punishment by other parties.

[oldtimefighter]

Actually, you would need congress or the state department or even the Judicial branch here to intervene here if the civil rights of the students are violated.  However, the university is a private entity which receives federal funding, but continues to be a PRIVATE entity, and thus able to have their own rules. (boy's scouts comes to mind).

 

Huh? The University of Oklahoma is public university which receives federal money and the Boy Scouts are totally a private organization.

 

Now, for those looking to simply bash seta, keep in mind, that if these students where affiliated to the KKK, and where vocal about their views, the government COULD NOT remove them or ban them from the institution, since it would be illegal to discriminate against them!!!!!!!  Very very very delicate balance here.....

We bash seta-san because he doesn't know what he is taking about and doesn't understand OU doesn't care about his opinions, they need to follow federal rules and protect their "brand". Their "business" is attracting new students to their school. Absolute freedom is fine in his momma's basement because he is the only one who lives there but once he steps out into the real world...

 

OU or any other campus can NOT have a hostile environment to minorities. Being a member of the KKK would not protect you on a college campus if you were engaging in the same activity in this video. Students must follow a code of conduct if they like to stay a student! Why is this so hard?

[Mockingbird]

Who was being discriminated against? All these kids did was say something offensive. Face it, they were punished for legally allowed speech under speech codes and codes of conduct that I don't believe are legal since they take federal funds

 

Are you serious? They are discriminating against African American students.

 

They are not going to jail and that's the extend to which freedom of speech applies.

 

Freedom of speech is NOT going to protect them from being expelled or some other forms of punishments.

 

seriously. who was being discriminated against? were blacks actually denied access to something? sorry, being made to FEEL discriminated against isn't the same as BEING discriminated against. if you can show that blacks were actually actively denied the ability to join the frat based on race then we can talk. if you can show that blacks were denied access to frat events then we can talk. otherwise all we have here is hurt feelings and college, as a place to for people to grow as adults, sheltering students from hurt feelings keeps their students in a state of childishness. when students leave the ivory tower the whole world we come for them and all it will take to defeat them is a few hurtful words.

 

the only lesson to learn from this is that you gain power in college and society by being a victim. and the bigger the victim you act like the more power you get.

 

Why yes, they are!

 

1. I don't care about codes of conduct or speech codes on a federally funded campus. The right to free speech should be absolute. Unfortunately the right to free speech is essentially the right to be an ######.

2. If OU cared about the 'business' aspect they would stop taking public money. Can't be both public and private at the same time. Accepting public money means following public rules.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.". This is federal law NUMBER ONE

3. The only valid argument against this frat is that there hasn't been a single black pledge in years. In that case the frat should be punished but not individual member

 

Freedom of speech may protect them in the judicial system as mentioned in the Bill of Rights, but it's not going to protect them from punishment handed down from the University. 

[Memphis]

seriously. who was being discriminated against? were blacks actually denied access to something? sorry, being made to FEEL discriminated against isn't the same as BEING discriminated against. if you can show that blacks were actually actively denied the ability to join the frat based on race then we can talk. if you can show that blacks were denied access to frat events then we can talk. otherwise all we have here is hurt feelings and college, as a place to for people to grow as adults, sheltering students from hurt feelings keeps their students in a state of childishness. when students leave the ivory tower the whole world we come for them and all it will take to defeat them is a few hurtful words.

 

the only lesson to learn from this is that you gain power in college and society by being a victim. and the bigger the victim you act like the more power you get.

 

I think you lost credibility on subjects of racism when you said Brevik had the right message for europe, but that his methods where "extreme". 

[FloatingFatMan]

 

Huh? The University of Oklahoma is public university which receives federal money and the Boy Scouts are totally a private organization.

 

 

A private organisation... which also receives federal money.

[seta-san]

Actually, you would need congress or the state department or even the Judicial branch here to intervene here if the civil rights of the students are violated. However, the university is a private entity which receives federal funding, but continues to be a PRIVATE entity, and thus able to have their own rules. (boy's scouts comes to mind).

As I've said before, a private entity may enact their own rules......Now, even if they were a fully state own entity and operated by the federal or local government, i am quite sure they would still have some sort of code of conduct to attend the school, which this act would probably violate.

Keep in mind, that what we saw in the video could be considered hate speech, which i believe it is indeed illegal, and could land these students in hot water if the federal government wants to press charges (i doubt it, and odds are what they said could indeed be interpreted as free speech.)

Now, for those looking to simply bash seta, keep in mind, that if these students where affiliated to the KKK, and where vocal about their views, the government COULD NOT remove them or ban them from the institution, since it would be illegal to discriminate against them!!!!!!! Very very very delicate balance here.....

Hate speech is allowed in the US

A private organisation... which also receives federal money.

Which is at risk of losing that federal money if they don't allow the gays in. Accept federal funds; accept federal rules.

I think you lost credibility on subjects of racism when you said Brevik had the right message for europe, but that his methods where "extreme".

Message was right. Accept the fact that there will be more Charlie Hebdos out there

Huh? The University of Oklahoma is public university which receives federal money and the Boy Scouts are totally a private organization.

We bash seta-san because he doesn't know what he is taking about and doesn't understand OU doesn't care about his opinions, they need to follow federal rules and protect their "brand". Their "business" is attracting new students to their school. Absolute freedom is fine in his momma's basement because he is the only one who lives there but once he steps out into the real world...

OU or any other campus can NOT have a hostile environment to minorities. Being a member of the KKK would not protect you on a college campus if you were engaging in the same activity in this video. Students must follow a code of conduct if they like to stay a student! Why is this so hard?

I would have zero problems if the campus was receiving zero federal funds. If that was the case they should be free to make any rules they want.

[DocM]

A private organisation... which also receives federal money.

A Congressionally chartered non-profit corporation, similar to the Girl Scouts, American Legion, Red Cross, Little League Baseball, and National Academy of Sciences.

[oldtimefighter]

A Congressionally chartered non-profit corporation, similar to the Girl Scouts, American Legion, Red Cross, Little League Baseball, and National Academy of Sciences.

You are correct... FloatingFatMan will need a source the Boy Scouts receive federal funding. 

[T3X4S]

so -  Just think of all the black colleges, black this, black that - you think they dont brag boast about no crackers ?

Sorry to see them take the fall like this - I support them 100%

[Mockingbird]

Hate speech is allowed in the US

 

And so it is. Did any of the students get arrested? No.

 

That said, the University has every right to impose punish on them.

[T3X4S]

so -  Just think of all the black colleges, black this, black that - you think they dont brag boast about no crackers ?

Sorry to see them take the fall like this - I support them 100%

[seta-san]

And so it is. Did any of the students get arrested? No.

That said, the University has every right to impose punish on them.

They were punished and materially damaged by a university that is federally funded for protected speech. You don't need to be arrested.

so - Just think of all the black colleges, black this, black that - you think they dont brag boast about no crackers ?

Sorry to see them take the fall like this - I support them 100%

For those concerned with racism you should see historically black colleges, black studies courses on campus and the kamehameha school in hawaii

[FloatingFatMan]

You are correct... FloatingFatMan will need a source the Boy Scouts receive federal funding. 

 

There are more sources of funding than just being given piles of cash.

 

ie: Being allowed to use expensive government land & facilities for free for their annual jamboree.

[Mockingbird]

so -  Just think of all the black colleges, black this, black that - you think they dont brag boast about no crackers ?

Sorry to see them take the fall like this - I support them 100%

 

Well, when you see one on the news, you can make a thread about it.

 

Until then, I am not going to deal with hypotheticals.

[Mockingbird]

They were punished and materially damaged by a university that is federally funded for protected speech. You don't need to be arrested.

 

According to the first amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

 

I don't see how that fits your argument.

[oldtimefighter]

There are more sources of funding than just being given piles of cash.

 

ie: Being allowed to use expensive government land & facilities for free for their annual jamboree.

Thanks for confirming they don't recieve federal funding.

[seta-san]

Thanks for confirming they don't recieve federal funding.

Actually being able to use facilities normally paid for such as schools, parks, etc is considered income by the federal government

[Thomas the Tank Engine]

The U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate have overwhelmingly passed resolutions in support of the Boy Scouts of America. In November 2004, the House passed a resolution, by a vote of 391 to 3, recognizing "the Boy Scouts of America for the public service the organization performs".^[134] Then, in February 2005, the House passed a resolution by a vote of 418 to 7, stating that "the Department of Defense should continue to exercise its long-standing statutory authority to support the activities of the BSA, in particular the periodic national and world Scout jamborees."^[135]

 

The U.S. Congress has twice passed bills in response to the governmental resources access controversy. In 2001, the U.S. Congress passed the Boy Scouts of America Equal Access Act, which was included as part of the No Child Left Behind Act, and which encouraged the BSA's access to educational facilities. In July 2005, the Senate voted 98 to 0 in favor of the Support Our Scouts Act, which was included as part of the Department of Defense Appropriations Act and was enacted in December 2005, which encourages both governmental support of the Boy Scouts in general and federal support of the national Scout jamboree.

 

Senator Bill Frist, one of the sponsors of the Support Our Scouts Acts, spoke highly of the BSA, saying:

"This unique American institution is committed to preparing our youth for the future by instilling in them values such as honesty, integrity, and character."

Of the Act, Frist explained:

"This legislation will allow the Boy Scouts to fulfill its mission without the distraction of defending itself against senseless attacks."^[136]

President of the United States William Howard Taft began serving as the first Honorary President of the Boy Scouts of America in 1911; the tradition has been followed by each succeeding U.S. President. In July 2001, President George W. Bush addressed the National Scout Jamboree and, although he did not directly discuss the controversies, reiterated his support for the organization. At the Jamboree, Bush commended the Scouts for upholding "values that build strong families, strong communities, and strong character" and said that the Scouts' values "are the values of America."^[137]

 

In January 2009, the American Humanist Association and eighteen other nontheistic organizations sent an open letter to then President-Elect Obama urging him not to serve as the Boy Scouts' honorary president because of the Scouts' positions on religion.^[138] Ignoring this, Obama accepted the position of Honorary President and has received the BSA's annual report from groups of Scouts every February from 2009 through 2013.^{[citation needed]}

 

On July 29, 2010, President Obama chose not to attend the Scouts' centennial Jamboree, sending a videotaped greeting instead and doing an interview on the daytime talk show The View. This decision was met with criticism, and raised speculation that the President's absence was a subtle protest against the Scouts' policies, or deferring to groups opposed to BSA's policies. However, he did send Secretary of Defense William Gates to represent him, and other Presidents, such as Eisenhower and Reagan, had previously sent representatives to National Jamborees instead of attending personally. President Obama continues to serve as Honorary National President, and has hosted the annual Report to the Nation delegation from the BSA each year at the White House.

 

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies#Support_from_federal_government

[oldtimefighter]

so -  Just think of all the black colleges, black this, black that - you think they dont brag boast about no crackers ?

Sorry to see them take the fall like this - I support them 100%

Did you really need to post this twice?

 

Histrotically black colleges are under the same rules if they accept federal funding but many are private institutions. No crackers? White people do attend historically black colleges and that always has been the case. At some HBCUs, black people are actually the minority of the student body. Shocker! Knowing is half the battle... G.I. Joe!

 

Can you cite any sources where any HBCU (that accepts federal funding) allowed a sanctioned on campus organization or event to create a hostile envirovent for white students and someone was not punished?