Mockingbird Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 This thread is dedicated specifically to running Windows 10 on Tablets and 2-in-1 PCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockingbird Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 Maybe I am just bitter, but I've seen so little effort from MSFT to make Windows 10 works well on tablets. Windows Explorer only works well on touch for people with chopstick fingers. The "All Apps" of the start menu uses only a tiny potion of the screen and is painful to use in touch. The taskbar block swiping from the bottom which brings up the command menu for a lot of Modern apps. I can go on, but you get the idea. Ian W 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 The desktop version of Explorer is -never- going to be any good for touch use without ruining it for traditional use as well. You'd need a whole new ModernUI version to be written from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockingbird Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 The desktop version of Explorer is -never- going to be any good for touch use without ruining it for traditional use as well. You'd need a whole new ModernUI version to be written from scratch. I disagree with that. There's no reason at all that Microsoft can't make the current Windows Explorer have large touch targets in tablet mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlarson83 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 If the File Manager from Windows 10 Mobile is any indication on what it could look like in Windows 10, then everything will be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I disagree with that. There's no reason at all that Microsoft can't make the current Windows Explorer have large touch targets in tablet mode. Make the targets big enough for touch, and they become TOO big for mouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockingbird Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 Make the targets big enough for touch, and they become TOO big for mouse. Isn't the whole point of having tablet mode is to be able to have the operating system adjust itself to whether or not keyboard and mouse are attached? +Red King 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DConnell Member Posted March 19, 2015 Member Share Posted March 19, 2015 Make the targets big enough for touch, and they become TOO big for mouse. I've never understood this assertion. "Larger than necessary" for a mouse perhaps, but how can a larger target be detrimental to using a mouse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Isn't the whole point of having tablet mode is to be able to have the operating system adjust itself to whether or not keyboard and mouse are attached? Sure, but having 2 distinct UI's in one app generally means both sides get a ###### experience. Better to give the tablet version it's own app, designed specifically for touch. I've never understood this assertion. "Larger than necessary" for a mouse perhaps, but how can a larger target be detrimental to using a mouse? Larger touch targets means less screen space for content, which means more scrolling around. For touch it's a necessary evil, for mouse, it's just an annoyance. Anibal P and +E.Worm Jimmy 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockingbird Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 Sure, but having 2 distinct UI's in one app generally means both sides get a ###### experience. Better to give the tablet version it's own app, designed specifically for touch. Not at all. Windows Explorer with tablet mode on = big Windows Explorer with tablet mode off = small +Red King 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DConnell Member Posted March 19, 2015 Member Share Posted March 19, 2015 Larger touch targets means less screen space for content, which means more scrolling around. For touch it's a necessary evil, for mouse, it's just an annoyance. Perhaps, but to my mind less room for content is a different issue than being harder to use with a mouse. And on a 1080P or higher resolution screen I'm not sure how much of a problem it really is. Are 32x32 icons really that useful on a high-res screen? I'd think between being easier to identify (especially for folks with poor eyesight) and being easier to click on, larger icons and controls would be a good thing, at least as an option, regardless of whether the pointing device is a mouse or a finger. And less density of content can be a good thing - white space actually helps legibility, within reason of course. For me the benefits of Modern have nothing to do with touchscreen, but are about legibility, and ease of use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian W Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Maybe I am just bitter, but I've seen so little effort from MSFT to make Windows 10 works well on tablets. Don't worry. You're not bitter. It's just that most seem to only care about the icons. The "All Apps" of the start menu uses only a tiny potion of the screen and is painful to use in touch. Thank you for being another person who notices this. The one in Windows 8.1 is much better. The taskbar block swiping from the bottom which brings up the command menu for a lot of Modern apps. I wish that Microsoft would have kept the Windows 8 Switcher. TPreston, DConnell and Mockingbird 3 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DConnell Member Posted March 19, 2015 Member Share Posted March 19, 2015 The "All Apps" of the start menu uses only a tiny potion of the screen and is painful to use in touch. Not just in touch. It's just as bad to use with a mouse. An inline list is a design element that works adequately on the small screen of a phone, but is asinine on anything larger. Thirty seconds of scrolling where I could have found the program I wanted in 10 seconds on 8.1's full screen All Apps. I guess I'll have to use Search to launch everything like I do in Win 7. Mockingbird and Ian W 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockingbird Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 Thurrott seems to think that for Windows 10 to be better on the desktop, it has to be worse on the tablet, yet he has been ignoring Windows 10 on tablet so I don't think his opinion is valid. I totally disagree with this: QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote I Ian W 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siah1214 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 So, Office 2013 has "touch" mode for tablets, which works fantastic, why can't Explorer have the same thing? Tap a button and the controls spread out/get larger, and the hit targets get larger. It's not ideal but it's better than what we've got. Windows 10 is terrible on touch, only slightly better than 7. Ian W, slinky333 and Mockingbird 3 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian W Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Thurrott seems to think that for Windows 10 to be better on the desktop, it has to be worse on the tablet, yet he has been ignoring Windows 10 on tablet so I don't think his opinion is valid. I totally disagree with this: https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/2276/whats-happening-with-windows-10-for-tablets I absolutely agree with you. I had the unfortunate experience of reading that article last night. I think the worst part about the article is this: For that small subset of people who actually like Windows 8 on tablets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockingbird Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 I absolutely agree with you. I had the unfortunate experience of reading that article last night. I think the worst part about the article is this: How does he know how large the audience is? How does he know that there is only a small subset of people who like using the OS on a tablet? MSFT already has a stranglehold on the desktop/laptop market. What MSFT needs is to grab market share in the tablet market and that's why it is vital that Windows 10 works well on tablets. Ian W 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian W Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 MSFT already has a stranglehold on the desktop/laptop market. What MSFT needs is to grab market share in the tablet market and that's why it is vital that Windows 10 works well on tablets. Oh definitely. I do wish that the company would have continued with the interface elements in Windows 8.1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockingbird Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Oh definitely. I do wish that the company would have continued with the interface elements in Windows 8.1. The biggest problem with Windows 8 by far was deemphasizing the desktop. Since Windows 95, the desktop has been the mission control center of Windows. With Windows 8, Microsoft has made the Start Screen the new mission control center and made the desktop "just an app". That broke the workflow of people who used the previous version of Windows. Had Microsoft just made the Start Screen the full screen version of the Start Menu, it wouldn't have seen so many complains. The problems associated with that are: "If the Start Screen is a full screen version of the Start Menu, why isn't there a power button" and "Why isn't there a start button on the taskbar?" Additionally, Modern apps seems to be some kind of special apps that operate on different rules: They can only run in full screen, doesn't have minimize, resize, and close buttons on the top right corners. Shortcuts of them cannot be place on the desktop. Windows 8.1 corrected some of that. That's not to say that Windows 8 (and Windows 8.1) didn't have issue on tablets. PC Settings is missing a lot of settings. Swipe down closes the whole desktop instead of individual apps on the desktop. The touch keyboard doesn't automatically popup when typing text in desktop and desktop apps. That said, what Microsoft is doing now is a lot of backpedaling, which suggests to me that Microsoft doesn't really know what went wrong with Windows 8/Windows 8.1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tompkin Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 That said, what Microsoft is doing now is a lot of backpedaling, which suggests to me that Microsoft doesn't really know what went wrong with Windows 8/Windows 8.1. This is what has puzzled me about Microsoft. As much as they would have us believe that they have "changed", and in some ways they have, why on earth do they keep making this same mistake? They had to backpedal on the desktop because Enterprise customers totally rejected Windows 8 on the desktop. But why not just keep the Metro interface on phones/tablets and enhance it? It was not the phone customers that were complaining about the metro interface, it was the desktop users. Now they've done the same thing. They've isolated phone users by trying to make the desktop interface and phone interface more alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BajiRav Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 So, Office 2013 has "touch" mode for tablets, which works fantastic, why can't Explorer have the same thing? Tap a button and the controls spread out/get larger, and the hit targets get larger. It's not ideal but it's better than what we've got. Windows 10 is terrible on touch, only slightly better than 7. They already have button (tablet mode), not sure why they are not using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuskd Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I guess he now feels the need to downplay the OS so Windows 10 can be portrayed more positively. Wont that hit the apps as well? If you downplay the OS then some people will perceive the same about Apps too because Apps are the fundamental factor that differentiates Windows 8 from other windows OSes. And with the growing publicity of hate towards all things Modern by some "haters", anyone can misinterpret the message and this can be counter productive for Windows 10 too. So even if they have a positive outlook of Windows 10, Apps will still be in the dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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