Russia announces plan to build new space station with NASA

[Unobscured Vision]

Lose the Superlaser (and the energy capability to produce the beam) and I'll go with it. 

[IsItPluggedIn]

They could use a spinning section as sleeping quarters. Im not 100% sure on the science, but wouldnt it help with some of the issues which are faced by having no gravity for extended periods of time?

[DocM]

If you could do it without blowing your mass budget for a deep space mission it'd help. NASA's NAUTILUS X is such a concept,

Cis-lunar class

Exploration class

[Unobscured Vision]

... apparently they're not going to involve NASA (or any U.S. Company, at least right now) in the new station after all. (And yes, my Beaker Avatar is doing the 'shocked' face.)

 

Roscosmos is instead looking at other BRICS Nations as well as the newly-formed SWIFT Alternative (whatever it is called ... international financial transactions infrastructure, which the U.S. is not a party to) to see who is interested in participating. This information came straight from Russian President Vladimir Putin, so it's pretty much a done deal at this point.

 

The standard news sources on this subject have been quite unfair concerning this turn of events. Some that I found really offensive were:

 

Javascript is not enabled or refresh the page to view.

Click here to view the Tweet

Javascript is not enabled or refresh the page to view.

Click here to view the Tweet

 

None of that was necessary. Russia is very good at Space Travel, and building Stations, with a great track record at both.

 

Like NASA has any better ideas. *sigh*

[+E.Worm Jimmy Subscriber¹]

... apparently they're not going to involve NASA (or any U.S. Company, at least right now) in the new station after all. (And yes, my Beaker Avatar is doing the 'shocked' face.)

 

Roscosmos is instead looking at other BRICS Nations as well as the newly-formed SWIFT Alternative (whatever it is called ... international financial transactions infrastructure, which the U.S. is not a party to) to see who is interested in participating. This information came straight from Russian President Vladimir Putin, so it's pretty much a done deal at this point.

 

The standard news sources on this subject have been quite unfair concerning this turn of events. Some that I found really offensive were:

 

 

None of that was necessary. Russia is very good at Space Travel, and building Stations, with a great track record at both.

 

Like NASA has any better ideas. *sigh*

 

 

yeah,  i am not shocked at all.    while the USA originally said the sanctions will not affect the space program,  it would be extremely surprising to see them cooperating fully on it.

might as well work with other countries who are allies.

 

too bad for science though, as i am sure this will slow the progress for everyone.

[Unobscured Vision]

Agreed. It's unfortunate.

 

What really bothers me the most out of all of this is that when anyone (or any other sovereign nation) wants to take the initiative and do something on their own, without the involvement of the United States, suddenly it's "doomed to failure", criticized and outright smeared -- as if our involvement will have any bearing on the success or failure of that endeavor.

 

It's insulting, really -- and unbecoming. It reflects very poorly upon us as a society, and I thought we were above such petty, ego-centric contrivances.

 

Symptoms of a larger problem, perhaps? Something to think about.

[DocM]

>

None of that was necessary. Russia is very good at Space Travel, and building Stations, with a great track record at both.

No, it wasn't, but it was Russia who decided to try an reassemble parts of the Warsaw Pact by force or blatant intimidation.

It was also Russia that threatened a sales embargo of RD-180 engines to be used for US military launches several years before the current kerfuffles.

Like NASA has any better ideas. *sigh*

The US has the below either flying or preparing to fly, all in conjunction with NASA programs but also for commercial use, plus at least 6 upgraded or new medium to super-heavy launchers in the pipeline. All are to fly before ISS is abandoned, and most before 2020. Some this year or early next.

Falcon 9 "v1.2" (+30% upgrade, June), Falcon Heavy (45-60t, this fall), Antares 200 (early 2016), BFR (180-300t, 2019-20), ULA Vulcan (replaces Atlas V & Delta IV, 2019), Blue Origin RLV (2017-18), Space Launch System (2018), and others.

And NASA has already said that the next US staction will be commercial, with strong hints at it leveraging Bigelow's tech..

Bigelows BA-330 module (construction)

Commercial station leveraging Bigelow

Dragon 1 (cargo, operational)

Cygnus 1 (cargo, operational)

Dragon 2 and CST-100 (crew, testing)

NASA Orion (crew, in test flights)

Cygnus CRS 2 (cargo) and crew habitat module

Lockheed CRS 2 (cargo) Jupiter tug & Exoliner

[Unobscured Vision]

The point I was trying to express was that this Geopolitical ... stuff ... these old, worn-out, tired, "us-versus-them 2.0" sentiments that appear to be rekindled are completely unnecessary. On both sides of the table. To my thinking, Humanity should not require an opponent to strive against in order to set goals or accomplish tasks.

 

And yes, I freely admit that I tend to be oppositional and take sides regarding Private Spaceflight versus Government Spaceflight; ergo, the "little guy battling the big, monolithic system" thing. That is a flaw in my personality that I recognize. I am biased, because I believe in progress and wish for positive endeavors to succeed.

 

At the same time, however, I am a child of the Cold War, as any of us who are older than 20 are. The whole mindset of people around us concerning "the Commies", how television was trying to teach us kids about the virtues of American life, etc etc ... basically that we would be invaded or destroyed at any moment by the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact Countries.

 

We can not go back to that "Cold War" mentality. EVER.

 

That's the point I was trying to make.

 

Looks like DocM has pieced together the why, through good detective work (as usual!).

 

It is likely that Roscosmos does not fit into NASA's current plans (which DocM outlined above) that utilize Private Companies. So NASA has not been sitting on its' laurels after all, and I stand corrected.

[streetw0lf]

Dibs on naming it.  Putin International Space Station.

[DocM]

"We can not go back to that "Cold War" mentality. EVER"

Too late. Putin beat us to it, and we have to deal with the reality of it.

Already Russian military aircraft are buzzing US and other NATO aircraft near the US coasts, Northern Europe, the Baltic, and over the Black Sea with WITH THEIR TRANSPONDERS OFF. Some Russian aircraft have buzzed them at less than 100 feet in international airspace.

Because of these actions, starting with the threats to withhold RD-180's, their aggression in Ukraine and pressuring of the Baltic states, if we return to a cold war state its on Russia and Putin.

We're very close, if we're not already there in all but name.

[+E.Worm Jimmy Subscriber¹]

"We can not go back to that "Cold War" mentality. EVER"

Too late. Putin beat us to it, and we have to deal with the reality of it.

Already Russian military aircraft are buzzing US and other NATO aircraft near the US coasts, Northern Europe, the Baltic, and over the Black Sea with WITH THEIR TRANSPONDERS OFF. Some Russian aircraft have buzzed them at less than 100 feet in international airspace.

Because of these actions, starting with the threats to withhold RD-180's, their aggression in Ukraine and pressuring of the Baltic states, if we return to a cold war state its on Russia and Putin.

We're very close, if we're not already there in all but name.

 

again, this is how you see it.     and how it is shown to you in the news.    there is no "beating" US to anything politically.  USA is the one that is in control unfortunately.

the whole, transponder off, thing have being do by US spy planes near Russia too.   all the time.  

and expansion towards Russia, and fearmongering baltic states, that otherwise would have nothing to fear from russia other then good business ties.

And I am not going to even start on your view of Ukrainian situation. And the fact the US does not negotiate with friends, it orders it's subordinates...

 

but this is all have being discussed again and again.   and there is absolutely no point to make the SPACE topic political (more then it already is)

 

please let keep this topic about space.

[DocM]

It's about Space Policy, which unfortunately is in no small part political.

This thread we wouldn't exist if it weren't for Russia's threats and actions WRT ISS and it's political actions at ground level.

[Unobscured Vision]

Sadly, it's almost always political when it comes to Space matters, be it the Private Sector (as witnessed by the difficulties SpaceX and the others have had in getting certification) up to and including the International Sector. It tends to be a tool to motivate, other times it is a tool to exclude.

 

Just when it was looking as though we were working to get past all of that nonsense, too.