Steam begins allowing mod creators to sell their work

[+Asmodai MVC]

A donation button would have served that purpose just fine and wouldn't have caused as much of an uproar. Popular and well made mods will get what they deserve and the garbage will fall to the bottom and get nothing, like they deserve.

 

But even still, steam has nothing in place to prevent people from taking mods from other sites, claiming them as their own and then putting it on steam for sale. Which is happening already. Valves hands off approach with this is not going to cut it.

 

I don't object to a donation button either and it likely would be easier but I don't think it's bad to let mod developers set their own price if they like too.  If they set it too high then people just won't buy it and if steam sorts on downloads/sales they'll fall to the bottom.

 

That said they definitely need to have a system in place to prevent people from stealing mods and posting them as their own.  At they very least they should have a way for the real developer to let them know their mod has been stolen and if confirmed the account the stole/posted the mod should be banned.  They should really do more than that but that would be a good start.

 

Another issue is that they need to guarantee the mod will keep working or offer refunds.  If you've bought something and Valve and the developer (such as Bethesda) took a cut of the money then they better give it back if they end up breaking what you bought.  If Bethesda releases a patch that makes a formerly working mod break then having taken a cut of your money from the mods sale (the largest cut apparently) they have assumed some responsibility.

[Noir Angel]

Just wait until Valve pushes this out to other games... hopefully not Left 4 Dead 2.

 

I have actually made some L4D2 mods, and all mine would remain free. I just enjoy making them. I'm sure there will be plenty of other modders like myself that will still not want to hide their work behind a paywall. For the most part I tend to find modders to be pretty reasonable people really.

[Torolol]

So following issues need to be addressed: (not an exhaustive list)

• Fairer revenues share for Mods, Store, Game dev
• Refund mechanism for non-working/bad mods
• System to tell mods dependency or incompatibility with other mods or official game patch/version
• Mechanism to prevent (or at least minimize) mods claim-stealing
• ...

[LightEco]

I don't understand how people can still blindly support the awful moves Valve has been making in recent years. They've proven to care about nothing but their bottom line and are embracing the core things that most people say they hate from other companies, but love when Valve does it (and more often).

 

On the topic of paid mods - I'm all for mod makers getting donations and support when they work hard and create something awesome, however this new system goes entirely against what PC modding has always been - a community of fans working to support a game they love for the benefit of others, not Valve and the big game companies. This will do nothing but turn into another greenlight and early access, where we have 95% garbage that people churn out and charge for and only a few actual quality goods. Meanwhile Valve just sits back, does nothing, and reaps major profits.

 

(If you need proof of the failure of this system, just head on over to the workshop. It has already begun - http://kotaku.com/the-most-ridiculous-skyrim-mods-people-are-trying-to-se-1700002072 and its already causing rifts in the modding community just so Valve can make a profit - http://steamed.kotaku.com/skyrim-modder-considers-quitting-after-steam-controvers-1700077114 )

 

We really need to stop worshipping the hollow, money grabbing corporation that Valve and Gabe has become and stand up to these terrible policies. If we don't, they are just going to continue to try and monetize every single part of their ecosystem, while the blind fanboys follow behind, dumping their wallets into Gabe's mouth.

 

That said they definitely need to have a system in place to prevent people from stealing mods and posting them as their own.  At they very least they should have a way for the real developer to let them know their mod has been stolen and if confirmed the account the stole/posted the mod should be banned.  They should really do more than that but that would be a good start.

 

Another issue is that they need to guarantee the mod will keep working or offer refunds.  If you've bought something and Valve and the developer (such as Bethesda) took a cut of the money then they better give it back if they end up breaking what you bought.  If Bethesda releases a patch that makes a formerly working mod break then having taken a cut of your money from the mods sale (the largest cut apparently) they have assumed some responsibility.

 

Valve has shown time and time again on greenlight and early access they really don't care. Once they get your money, the game might as well be non-existent (as many have) or a total ripoff (as more have).

[+Asmodai MVC]

Valve has shown time and time again on greenlight and early access they really don't care. Once they get your money, the game might as well be non-existent (as many have) or a total ripoff (as more have).

I just want to be clear that I'm not advocating the exact system Valve is using as it exists today. It clearly has a ton of issues that need to be dealt with (and I've listed a few myself) but I do agree with the overall concept that mod makers should be able to charge for their mods IF they so desire. If they want to release their mod for free that's GREAT too but I don't object to giving mod makers the option to charge for their mods.

I personally don't buy into the "this new system goes entirely against what PC modding has always been" mentality. If a mod developer truly does it just for the love of the game and community then nothing should stop them from continuing to release their mods for free. I don't think Valves new system should FORCE all mod developers to charge for their mods so they should be able to continue to release them for free if they like. Being able to charge for quality mods will bring more people to the table and allow others who might have had to leave to actually do something that pays the bills the ability to stay. Sure there will be a bunch of crap too but people shouldn't buy that, they should review it badly, and it should get buried at the bottom of the list).

As for Valve specifically I'm a fairly anti-Steam guy myself. I tend to get my games on GoG.com if possible and if not I think long and hard before I send money Valve's way. That said I still don't disagree with the concept of mod makers being allowed THE OPTION to charge for their work. Just because Valve is doing it and I don't like Valve doesn't make it automatically wrong. Although again, I think the current implementation has several issues they need to resolve so I'm certainly not defending their exact system as it exists today... just the overall concept of being able to charge for a mod if you like.

[corrosive23]

Gabe Newell has basically said "Tough ######" in response to the outrage.

http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/33uplp/mods_and_steam/

[trag3dy]

Gabe Newell has basically said "Tough ######" in response to the outrage.

http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/33uplp/mods_and_steam/

 

I wonder what he has to say about Valve reps telling mod authors that it's okay to sell mods that use other peoples assets without their permission.

 

Because I'm pretty sure that's illegal.

 

I didn't get to read through all 3000 or so posts made so far.

[FunkyMike]

DayZ Creator Weighs In On Paid 'Skyrim' Mods: 'Your Turn Rockstar'

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/33r190/dean_hall_talks_about_paid_skyrim_mods_in_a_most/

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

I don't see the problem, of course I also don't hold the notion that mods must be free, or that they can only be supported by donations (And there's already been a bunch of game mods where you had to "donate" to receive access to them).

Of course there are issues with IP rights and such (Workshop had the same issue), but people are pushing this notion of Valve destroying the mod scene by rounding up authors and forcing them to sell their mods that is just dumb.

[trag3dy]

I don't see the problem, of course I also don't hold the notion that mods must be free, or that they can only be supported by donations (And there's already been a bunch of game mods where you had to "donate" to receive access to them).

Of course there are issues with IP rights and such (Workshop had the same issue), but people are pushing this notion of Valve destroying the mod scene by rounding up authors and forcing them to sell their mods that is just dumb.

 

I've never read about anyone saying Valve is forcing people to sell their mods. One thing it has done is divide communities and that's an indisputable fact. They've injected hate and hostility where there was none before.

[Tomoko]

Coming Soon:

 

[Noir Angel]

People still listen to Kotaku? LOL. The guy didn't "steal" content, he withdrew his mod voluntarily because he was unable to contact the people responsible for the animation framework he was using in time, thanks largely to the NDA that was forced upon him.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

I've never read about anyone saying Valve is forcing people to sell their mods. One thing it has done is divide communities and that's an indisputable fact. They've injected hate and hostility where there was none before.

No, Valve aren't the ones doing that.

People might not be saying they're forcing devs to sell mods, but they're acting like it. All Valve have done is give modders an option of selling their mods, and people are acting like it's the end of the world.

[trag3dy]

No, Valve aren't the ones doing that.

People might not be saying they're forcing devs to sell mods, but they're acting like it. All Valve have done is give modders an option of selling their mods, and people are acting like it's the end of the world.

 

I've been keeping up with this as often as I can since it first became a thing and I honestly have not seen that sort of complaint being made at all.

[+Asmodai MVC]

I don't see the problem, of course I also don't hold the notion that mods must be free, or that they can only be supported by donations (And there's already been a bunch of game mods where you had to "donate" to receive access to them).

I totally agree with this but there are other issues involved here.

The biggest one is that the mod developer who does all the work only gets a 25% cut. That's nuts to me.

Also if Valve is taking a 30% cut, and the game that the mod is for is taking a 45% cut then by doing so I think they assume some responsibility for the mod as well. If a mod that's working perfectly breaks because Bethesda releases a patch that breaks it then having taken 45% of the mods income they bear some responsibility to insure the mod continues to work. When mods are free and unofficial it sucks when a patch breaks them but it's par for the course. When they cost money and the entity who is taking the largest cut is responsible for breaking it then "tough luck" isn't a reasonable response.

I'm not sure how much is FUD and how much is legit but if someone can just grab a mod on Nexus and post it on Steam for sale as their own then that's a HUGE issue (if it's happened yet or not). Likewise if you can just bundle a bunch of other peoples mods into a package and sell that package that's an issue as well. Mod makers shouldn't have to scour Steams mod listings to see if any of their work shows up. God help them if their only recourse if they DO find their mod being sold by someone else to contact Steam support because Valve's support is HORRIBLE and it could take months to resolve the issue (if it's ever resolved)

One solution, off the top of my head, would be to have some sort of mod developers program where steam accounts that want to post mods would register as mod developers and meet some criteria to ensure they aren't just throw away accounts. Like possibly have to be at least a year old or pay some mod dev registration fee or have purchased a certain value of steam games with that account or something (I'm not saying those SPECIFICALLY should be it, just some ideas off the top of my head.) Then if they post mods that aren't theirs at their own that account would be banned.

Additionally perhaps the mods that are for sale should just be the ones that work using the officially supported MOD tools and modding API of the game and not the ones that "hack" the game or use other programs to work. For example I use SkyUI for Skyrim and it requires SKSE to work as the Bethesda included APIs aren't sufficient to make it work. SKSE pretty much has to be updated every time the game is patched and so since every patch "breaks" the mod it uses unofficial APIs it shouldn't be something Bethesda blesses (which they effectively do if they take a 45% cut of the sale price should SkyUI decide to start charging)

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

The cuts kinda suck, apparently the 30% cut is the normal amount Valve take for anything sold on Steam, but normally you don't have the money being split with multiple sources (i.e. maybe Bethesda could split it 50/50 with modders, or 60/40, etc.)

And yep, people are uploading other peoples works to sell, that points to a problem with the vetting process though, and isn't itself a downside to the actual system (People upload other peoples content to the workshop all the time, the process for taking it down is the same). I've seen people claim that Valve is protecting the re-uploaders, to the extent that they're going to ignore DMCA takedowns for these mods, it's hilarious to see the made up claims.

In the future we might see more of a App Store kind model, where you have the dev tools for a game made available for free (I think that's something people aren't thinking about, if publishers can take a cut from mod sales, you've just opened up a new market for them, giving them a financial reason to release mod tools, and more freedom to include DLC/game content), but to sell them you need to be a "registered modder" that gets you a signing key for you to sign your mods. There's flaws with the Valve model, but the solution is to fix those flaws, not claim that Valve is destroying the mod scene and that all mods should always be free, etc.