JustGeorge Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Hell, lets give this lady some props for pulling it off. Damn shame her parents came along and ruined this ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trag3dy Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 There's something very wrong with the way a race is identified with a cultural identity - that somehow a person with a darker skin color is identified as having a different distinct cultural identity than a person with a lighter skin color. Cultural identity is a social construct that is separate from racial identity. This is a white woman who has an African American cultural identity. It is hard to express that in a society where a race is automatically associated with a certain cultural identity, hence the reason she identified herself as black. I don't buy it. Sounds like a mighty complicated excuse you've concocted for a simple issue - she thought she had something to gain by people thinking she is black. If what you say is true then why all the shenanigans she pulled trying to conceal the identity of her parents? psmoked 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockingbird Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Its pretty easy, though. You just say "I identify with black culture." The truth is that people are very superficial and will judge you by the first thing they see. I don't buy it. Sounds like a mighty complicated excuse you've concocted for a simple issue - she thought she had something to gain by people thinking she is black. So you are not even going to take the time to address what I wrote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisj1968 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 it isn't judging. i get dark in the sun because of the cherokee in my blood. but I identify myself as Caucasin because my amount of cherokee is so little. If I got a tan and then tried to pass myself as a black person.. it would be a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trag3dy Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 The truth is that people are very superficial and will judge you by the first thing they see. So you are not even going to take the time to address what I wrote? I did. It's that I don't believe the excuse you created for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockingbird Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I did. It's that I don't believe the excuse you created for her. I remember one of my friend wrote a whole paper on religion (for his elective class). Then somebody objected: I don't believe these nonsense. I know that god exist. You remind me of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trag3dy Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I remember one of my friend wrote a whole paper on religion (for his elective class). Then somebody objected: I don't believe these nonsense. I know that god exist. You remind me of that. So in this story of yours you're the one who is objecting and saying god exists? I'm confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockingbird Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 So in this story of yours you're the one who is objecting and saying god exists? I'm confused. You haven't addressed the issue and you have committed a fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trag3dy Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 You haven't addressed the issue and you have committed a fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem Whose character did I attack? This is even more confusing. So saying I don't believe what you're saying is attacking someones character? Interesting. If anything you attacked my character. I can do that too: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman Just to be clear I don't believe what you are saying. I don't know this women and can't speak for her. But apparently you do and can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anibal P Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Whose character did I attack? This is even more confusing. So saying I don't believe what you're saying is attacking someones character? Interesting. I can do that too: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman You can't win with these types, they are always right and any questions to the validity of said stance is attacked and/or ignored because they already know better than us trag3dy 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockingbird Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Whose character did I attack? This is even more confusing. So saying I don't believe what you're saying is attacking someones character? Interesting. What I said was: "There's something very wrong with the way a race is identified with a cultural identity - that somehow a person with a darker skin color is identified as having a different distinct cultural identity than a person with a lighter skin color. Cultural identity is a social construct that is separate from racial identity. This is a white woman who has an African American cultural identity. It is hard to express that in a society where a race is automatically associated with a certain cultural identity, hence the reason she identified herself as black." You have not disproved what I said. "I don't believe your lame argument" is not a valid argument. theyarecomingforyou 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3X4S Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 You think I'm gonna support some moonshinin' hillbillies?! Nope. Give me David Duke. Wait. We at the NAAWASP are very sorry for our poor choice of charismatic leaders. We were unaware of Mr David Duke's past. He told us he was a leader in something which he described was "nothing but a fraternity of like-minded individuals" - we did not know he was referring to the KKK. When screening Bo & Luke Duke, it was apparent they had sexual relations with their sister, a Daisy Duke. Needless to say, that is not something we want leading our fight for advancement. Until a worthy leader is selected, we have decided to elect an interim leader in Col Sanders. The enigmatic leader of fried chicken will carry out..... oh crap - that wont work either..... stay tuned. DConnell and Dashel 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttus Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 This is a white woman who has an African American cultural identity. It is hard to express that in a society where a race is automatically associated with a certain cultural identity, hence the reason she identified herself as black. i am curious about what part of africa's culture that she identifies with? maybe south africa? it's kind of like saying that I identify with king tut, so then i identify as an african american.... but hey, if a man/woman can identify as a different sex, then let her identify as a different race.... Anibal P 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3X4S Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 i am curious about what part of africa's culture that she identifies with? maybe south africa? it's kind of like saying that I identify with king tut, so then i identify as an african american.... but hey, if a man/woman can identify as a different sex, then let her identify as a different race.... Whats ironic, is if you talk to anyone from Africa - chances are they dont identify with blacks here in America - at least the few I have talked to. Memphis 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trag3dy Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 What I said was: "There's something very wrong with the way a race is identified with a cultural identity - that somehow a person with a darker skin color is identified as having a different distinct cultural identity than a person with a lighter skin color. Cultural identity is a social construct that is separate from racial identity. This is a white woman who has an African American cultural identity. It is hard to express that in a society where a race is automatically associated with a certain cultural identity, hence the reason she identified herself as black." You have not disproved what I said. "I don't believe your lame argument" is not a valid argument. I don't have to disprove it because there is nothing to disprove. You haven't actually offered any sort of reason why what you're saying has anything to do with this story. And if you had then I might agree with you. But you haven't, you just spouted a bunch of of stuff about cultural identity and haven't drawn a single connection to this story. Unless I missed something somewhere...? I did a quick look through of this thread and it appears you're the only one who has brought up this cultural identity stuff so yeah I'm not sure that I did. So how is me saying "I don't believe what you are saying" a fallacy of any kind? That's something else you haven't explained.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockingbird Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Whose character did I attack? This is even more confusing. So saying I don't believe what you're saying is attacking someones character? Interesting. I can do that too: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman Just to be clear I don't believe what you are saying. I don't know this women and can't speak for her. But apparently you do and can. false-cause: So which part do you not agree with? The part that she has African American cultural identity? Or that people are superficial in their judgment from skin color? fallacy-fallacy: No. That's the fallacy that you commit. You did not address my argument, but simply said that it must somehow be invalid because of the complexity. strawman: My argument is exactly what it said. Racial identity is distinct from cultural identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockingbird Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Let me make this simple: Racial identity - biological construct Cultural identity - social construct People like to confuse the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trag3dy Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 false-cause: So which part do you not agree with? The part that she has African American cultural identity? Or that people are superficial in their judgment from skin color? fallacy-fallacy: No. That's the fallacy that you commit. You did not address my argument, but simply said that it must somehow be invalid because of the complexity. strawman: My argument is exactly what it said. Racial identity is distinct from cultural identity. I did not say your argument was invalid. Where did I say that? I said I don't believe what you are saying as it relates to this story which is something completely different. It means I have seen no proof that what you're saying is true. It means I'm open to what you're saying might be true but that there has been no proof offered that what you are saying is true. It does not mean I said you're argument is invalid, though. Let's talk about that strawman.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockingbird Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I did not say your argument was invalid. Where did I say that? I said I don't believe what you are saying as it relates to this story which is something completely different. It means I have seen no proof that what you're saying is true. It means I'm open to what you're saying might be true but that there has been no proof offered that what you are saying is true. It does not mean I said you're argument is invalid, though. This type of argument can go on forever. Somebody could say, "For all I know, Oprah could be paying this woman to identify herself as black." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3X4S Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 You two are bickering over something that doesnt involve either of you. You know the rule:Dont argue with an idiot, someone might walk by and not know who the idiot is. (not saying either of you are an idiot) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganX Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Like I said, because racial identity has been incorrectly linked to cultural identity. The problem is this is America, and race relations has been defined by Slavery and all that followed. You are correct though. Ancient Egypt being the prime example of cultural identity irrespective of ethnic origin or skin tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganX Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 on subject of slavery, I recall irish were slaves too. The issue is, she lied. she lied about her race. that there crushed and demolished her credibility. The Irish were slaves interesting piece here: http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-irish-slave-trade-forgotten-white-slaves/. There were many slaves. The differences which cause generational damage are ... deep and psychological, IMO African slavery was worst. Physically, not so much really, when you look at the history. African slaves were much too valuable (right place and the right time) to be treated as badly as many others who were enslaved. Technically, her DNA could be checked and if she has even one half of 1% negroid in her .... what then? lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Whats ironic, is if you talk to anyone from Africa - chances are they dont identify with blacks here in America - at least the few I have talked to. This is more true that just about anyone is willing to admit and I also say this from experience. I even had one tell me he would never room with a black man who was not from Africa. T3X4S and bguy_1986 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I've had the same experience talking to Africans. What observations I've heard from them about US black leaders were not positive at all. bguy_1986 and T3X4S 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiranui Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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