Upgrade or New Computer for Client


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Over the weekend, I had a 70 year old client who has a Dell Precision Workstation 390, which was running XP with 1 gig of ram and a failing hard drive. She wanted it upgraded in RAM, Win 7 upgraded and Office Installed. Well here's the kicker. No DVD drive for me to boot my win7 DVD from. So I load up Hiren's and image the new machine with my wim image that I built in my VM which includes office and anti-virus. No updates installed. Bam, on boot, it fails and restarts. Startup repair does nothing other than hang, safe modes don't load. So in order to get it working, I load up Mint and a VM with Win 7, getting it up with 2.8 gigs of ram for the VM and set it up in full screen so it looks like win 7, and show her how to access. This is all after a trip from her place to best buy to get a new hdd, a previous trip to get more ram, 3.5 hours of fighting with it (while she watches TV), 2 billed hours, and a grand total of $455 including software, hardware and time. So after I confirm it's running quickly and normally, I show her how to access Windows and head home. Later that night, I get a couple emails of her complaining it's too cumbersome or too slow, etc. I remote in and run the windows assessment and it tests fine (except graphics, because, well it's a VM). I ensure her I'll give her free support for 3 months and I verify she can get into everything. Later that night, it occurs to me I could have just extracted the wim from the Win 7 Install CD and install that way. So I offer to install it fully for free to make it easier on her. After more complaining, she states she's just going to get a new computer. 

 

So without going into too much more detail, what do you think is a better option. New computer or updating the current one. I can refund her for the ram and hdd and eat the price of the win 7 license key, but after pricing it, she's still going to pay more with a new machine. What are your thoughts? 

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So this is an old machine with Windows 7 running in a VM within Mint? I'd say a new machine might be the most straightforward solution if it must run in a VM, and especially since that's what she wants. That model is old...but it's also probably a dual core machine and should be able to handle 7. I imagine the slowness and feeling "cumbersome" is due to running in a VM...

 

No USB ports available to install Windows 7 from a drive that's been treated with the Windows 7 USB/DVD tool?

 

We've got an OptiPlex from the same era (2006) running 7 handling software for some lab equipment. It's got a Pentium D and 2 GB of RAM, and runs fairly speedy for light work.

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She'll be happier with a new PC anyway, the cost of updating w/labor just isn't worth it.

 

I'm still trying to understand how running it in a VM was a long term solution. 

 

Mint/hirens, LOL

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I ran it out of a VM because when I initially applied my wim it blue screened. I didn't have win7 on the thumbdrive at the time (and it won't install from DriveDroid as an iso, which is how I boot from USB because I got tired of dedicated thumbdrives) and didn't think of installing it that way until after the fact. I offered to fully reinstall and just run win7 the next day. 

 

I suppose if win7 were installed on it outside of being a vm, it wouldn't be worth a new computer? That I suppose was my question. 

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If it doesn't run properly outside of a VM then there's probably a fundamental underlying problem with compatibility, a new computer might be the best bet.

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She'll be happier with a new PC anyway, the cost of updating w/labor just isn't worth it.

 

I'm still trying to understand how running it in a VM was a long term solution.

 

Long term is relative. I work out of VMs all the time. And she's not doing anything heavy on processing. It was more a workaround to get her up and running at the time without taking another 3 hours. Hence me following up later that night with a solution. 

If it doesn't run properly outside of a VM then there's probably a fundamental underlying problem with compatibility, a new computer might be the best bet.

 

That could have been due to VMware drivers being present, couldn't it? I wonder if a fresh install would make a difference? 

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If her needs aren't that great, why not just use Linux?


That could have been due to VMware drivers being present, couldn't it? I wonder if a fresh install would make a difference? 

 

Your freshly loaded image didn't include VMWare did it? sorry if I didn't come across clearly, I meant to say if a fresh install of W7 still bluescreens it might be a fundamental hardware issue.

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If her needs aren't that great, why not just use Linux?

 

Your freshly loaded image didn't include VMWare did it? sorry if I didn't come across clearly, I meant to say if a fresh install of W7 still bluescreens it might be a fundamental hardware issue.

 

No. The initial image was a wim taken from a fresh VMWare install, not a fresh install from the original wim. I've wimmed across hardware before and it's never not started, and removing non-present drivers has always prevented BSOD's with past clients. 

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Did you not sysprep the image before capturing it? If you're going to capture a WIM for mass deployment your best bet is to sysprep and generalise the image to remove all of the drivers. If you didn't sysprep it then yes, it's very likely the old drivers could be what caused the image to BSOD on startup. If you did sysprep it however it should be fine.

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I suppose if win7 were installed on it outside of being a vm, it wouldn't be worth a new computer? That I suppose was my question. 

 

That's the customer's call. I think there is a significant chance that performance will increase outside the VM. Perhaps to levels that she finds acceptable. If she refuses to try, or tries and then wants a new machine, then that is pretty much the end of it.

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Did you not sysprep the image before capturing it? If you're going to capture a WIM for mass deployment your best bet is to sysprep and generalise the image to remove all of the drivers. If you didn't sysprep it then yes, it's very likely the old drivers could be what caused the image to BSOD on startup. If you did sysprep it however it should be fine.

 

No. I didn't sysprep unfortunately. Oh, and to answer your question about linux, when she works she uses windows based apps to connect to work.

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dude sorry to say this but you suck as an IT tek, you should have tested the systems ability to run windows 7 1st and you charged her for the hours you spent setting it up in a VM

so IMO as there was no need for you to do this she should be fully refunded for that

 

it really grinds my gears when people are over charged for "support" and people try to cut corners and apply the sticking plaster method to ermm "fix the issue" for the price you charged her she could have got a brand new pc with windows 7 or 8.1.

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honestly i think the whole issue is a mess; if OP's client had a old, degraded computer, it's much cheaper to buy a new one than to spend lot's of time, parts and money to buy new parts into a old computer. Why? because the fundamental issue is the core hardware: old mainboard, old disk, old cpu, old hardware = slow performance and more chances of failing.

 

also i didn't get the whole Linux Mint + Windows 7...

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it really grinds my gears when people are over charged for "support" and people try to cut corners and apply the sticking plaster method to ermm "fix the issue" for the price you charged her she could have got a brand new pc with windows 7 or 8.1.

 

When i was doing helpdesk to costumers, the hours rate i charged (and my costumers knew the price per hour) i used to do this:

- i only had very specific amount of time to troubleshoot.

- if the troubleshoot finds that there is a need to upgrade the hardware, then it's up to the costumer to know how much that could potentially cost (labour and parts) and i compared with buying a new computer, with warranty and with a new modern OS; the later would ALWAYS win, because it's much cheaper to buy a new computer than to substitute parts knowing that sooner or later that same computer will still need to be replaced.

 

of course there are time that, financially it's not possible to buy a new computer: for those i always said that it's better to buy a new computer AND do small increased upgrades (less costly upfront) that to buy a computer and hope that it will last what 7 years? than when it's time to buy a new one it's going to cost money they don't have.

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honestly i think the whole issue is a mess; if OP's client had a old, degraded computer, it's much cheaper to buy a new one than to spend lot's of time, parts and money to buy new parts into a old computer. Why? because the fundamental issue is the core hardware: old mainboard, old disk, old cpu, old hardware = slow performance and more chances of failing.

 

also i didn't get the whole Linux Mint + Windows 7...

What Praetor said.  I actually get running Windows in a VM on Linux if they're prone to viruses.  I used to work on a girl's computer ALL the time back when MySpace was big and she always used those customizers.

 

That aside, a newer computer is cheaper and will last longer.  Period.  You should have an idea of what you need to put into it before going through with it.  You can even get a decent refurbished dual-core machine with 4GB of RAM for a couple hundred dollars.

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All this could have been resolved by doing the right thing and making her but a half decent computer, you dug yourself into an unneeded hole by trying to force something we all know was not going to work from the get go

 

 

Of course she's better off with a new computer vs an antique that has a limited lifespan and that was half assed rigged to "work" 

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dude sorry to say this but you suck as an IT tek, you should have tested the systems ability to run windows 7 1st and you charged her for the hours you spent setting it up in a VM

so IMO as there was no need for you to do this she should be fully refunded for that

 

it really grinds my gears when people are over charged for "support" and people try to cut corners and apply the sticking plaster method to ermm "fix the issue" for the price you charged her she could have got a brand new pc with windows 7 or 8.1.

 

 

I didn't charge her for any of the time setting up the VM. I charged her for the time I spent fighting with her machine to a certain extent then continued working for free to get her up and running (and even gave her 3 months of on call support for the delays). And it wasn't cutting corners. She initially said she didn't want a new machine so I made it work. Realistically, she wanted Win 7 installed and more ram. I added more ram and got her running with Win 7 and even if it was in a VM. Hell, when my dad got his mac mini, he worked out of a Win VM when he needed it with even less ram! And he had no problems. 

So the insults aren't necessary. We all have off days. 

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btw OP: i'm not making a bad critic of what you did :)

 

mistakes we all do and it's with situations like these that we all learn. Hope that you learn as well.

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btw OP: i'm not making a bad critic of what you did :)

 

mistakes we all do and it's with situations like these that we all learn. Hope that you learn as well.

 

Thanks. I know.

 

I plan to do my best to make right by it. Hence my asking in the first place. 

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hmm...Interesting

 

I just don't understand why you wouldn't make a USB installer and be done with it. You may want to make your self a few USB keys for every version of Windows you install. I recommend a Zelman HD enclosure which you just put your ISO's on. Choose the one you wish to install and it gives you a virtual CD ROM drive.

 

No offence but the Linux + VM + Windows 7 inside the VM sounds like a hack job :(

 

Still love ya though!

 

Now speaking of hack jobs .. here is one I created to Install Vista, 7 and 8 all from a single hard drive :laugh: Works like a charm! I don't use it that often anymore I just use my zelman

 

https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/948072-how-to-install-all-versions-of-vista-7-8-from-a-single-usb-hard-drive/

 

all the images are missing :( but the information is still there!

 

That being said, had you syspreped the image your method would have worked as mentioned above.

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hmm...Interesting

 

I just don't understand why you wouldn't make a USB installer and be done with it. You may want to make your self a few USB keys for every version of Windows you install. I recommend a Zelman HD enclosure which you just put your ISO's on. Choose the one you wish to install and it gives you a virtual CD ROM drive.

 

No offence but the Linux + VM + Windows 7 inside the VM sounds like a hack job :(

 

Still love ya though!

 

Now speaking of hack jobs .. here is one I created to Install Vista, 7 and 8 all from a single hard drive :laugh: Works like a charm! I don't use it that often anymore I just use my zelman

 

https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/948072-how-to-install-all-versions-of-vista-7-8-from-a-single-usb-hard-drive/

 

all the images are missing :( but the information is still there!

 

That being said, had you syspreped the image your method would have worked as mentioned above.

 

 

:-D Thank you! 

 

Seriously though. I don't know why I didn't just take the wim from the install disk and use imagex. Same thing as using the DVD. The installer in Hirens has saved me multiple times. I of course thought of this after the fact :( Boo. 

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