Xbox One backwards compatibility

[vcfan]

all talk backwards compatibility

mass effect comparison

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjblk1ADq9k

[George P Global Moderator]

Looking good to me, they did a heck of a job getting this to work without needing to tweak any games etc, just pop them in and get the new BC package ready to go.

[SnoopZ]

I am impressed how easy it is on the Xbox One, are they just running the X360 OS on the X1?

[George P Global Moderator]

I am impressed how easy it is on the Xbox One, are they just running the X360 OS on the X1?

 

Yes, in a sense, they took the full 360 OS and stripped it down to the basics needed for you to play and get all the party, chat and messaging options to, if you hit the xbox button on your controller you get the 360 mini-guide etc, it's pretty much the whole OS minus the main dashboard itself.

[SnoopZ]

I am glad i kept  downloading the free Games with Gold games each month for the X360 even though i haven't turned it on in several months, the X1 is getting better and better all the time, i think sales will improve loads in the next year.

 

It's the console that seems to have everything.

[ToneKnee]

I see actually building the system on top of Hyper-V turned out to be a great idea!

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Mass Effect isn't looking pretty

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-vs-backwards-compatibility-on-xbox-one

Still betting on EA remastering collection, as in they won't care how it runs via emulation.

[Aergan]

Looks like Mass Effect struggles to keep 30fps anyway on both systems to be honest. Testament to EA's "Get it out the door" policy.

[SnoopZ]

It is early days yet hopefully it'll improve, but the backwards compatibility is working better than the PS3 to PS4s!

[Lingwo]

Did anyone actually lose at E3?

 

Ok maybe my nephew cause he got a WiiU for his birthday.

[George P Global Moderator]

Did anyone actually lose at E3?

 

Ok maybe my nephew cause he got a WiiU for his birthday.

 

That's just mean,

 

Anyways, as for as the performance problems in some points in games, I figure those can be ironed out as they tweak more performance from the VM/emulator, it's running great in it's preview state right now though, things are looking up.

[TruckWEB]

I'd really like to test that backward compatibility!!!  Anyone care to invite me?  I'm Truckweb379 !!   :D

[gohpep]

Although they can optimize it, they will never get 100% or even greater performance using the system they have in place right now.

 

A better system would be something like Wine, where it translates Xbox 360 calls to the respective Xbox One method. This ensures compatibility without legacy, which can even provide greater performance than on the original platform.

[HawkMan]

Although they can optimize it, they will never get 100% or even greater performance using the system they have in place right now.

 

A better system would be something like Wine, where it translates Xbox 360 calls to the respective Xbox One method. This ensures compatibility without legacy, which can even provide greater performance than on the original platform.

 

You don't even know what system they have in place now or how it works, yet you suggest a system that may be more inefficient and less compatible that what they have in place.  never mind the fact that xbox doesn't use directX like a PC does and is like but more so than DX12 very bare metal even if it's still DX. so it doesn't quite translate like that. 

[ToneKnee]

People have to remember that this is beta, optimisations can still come down the line.  We can clearly see it can run 30fps a lot of the time, so it could simply be a resource allocation issue or some more optimisation.

[HawkMan]

In addition the emulation already has better performance than the original native, the few kinks that are currently where it loses performance or randomly gets jerky seems to indeed be bugs since it otherwise performs better by a significant factor.  demonstrated on loading times and texture popping especially. 

[MikeChipshop Member]

People have to remember that this is beta, optimisations can still come down the line.  We can clearly see it can run 30fps a lot of the time, so it could simply be a resource allocation issue or some more optimisation.

 

Indeed. People seem to be forgetting this is only a handful of games and only available for preview members to test and provide targeted feedback, before it gets rolled out to the masses once the bugs are squashed.

[gohpep]

You don't even know what system they have in place now or how it works, yet you suggest a system that may be more inefficient and less compatible that what they have in place.  never mind the fact that xbox doesn't use directX like a PC does and is like but more so than DX12 very bare metal even if it's still DX. so it doesn't quite translate like that. 

The system has already been revealed. It is the Xbox 360 OS without the dashboard running as an Xbox One app. There is no way that directly using the Xbox One APIs wouldn't be faster. In fact, Xbox One and Windows 10 have pretty much the same API, and DirectX 12 is the same on both platforms. It is just that the hardware can be better targeted to the Xbox One since it is predictable, as there is only one hardware set to target.

 

Although, I do not have access to Microsoft's source code to confirm this. If you could please share a reliable source that states that they have substantially different systems/code bases, I would be glad to agree with you.

 

In addition the emulation already has better performance than the original native, the few kinks that are currently where it loses performance or randomly gets jerky seems to indeed be bugs since it otherwise performs better by a significant factor.  demonstrated on loading times and texture popping especially. 

 

Emulation always provides a bottleneck, and in the system they have in place right now will always have a bottleneck. They are emulating the original Xbox 360 OS, not making an emulator that simply pretends to be the Xbox 360 OS. Highest performance (without rewriting the game) would be Xbox One shading Xbox 360 APIs, with all methods replaced to forward to the Xbox One API.

[HawkMan]

The system has already been revealed. It is the Xbox 360 OS without the dashboard running as an Xbox One app. There is no way that directly using the Xbox One APIs wouldn't be faster. In fact, Xbox One and Windows 10 have pretty much the same API, and DirectX 12 is the same on both platforms. It is just that the hardware can be better targeted to the Xbox One since it is predictable, as there is only one hardware set to target.

 

Although, I do not have access to Microsoft's source code to confirm this. If you could please share a reliable source that states that they have substantially different systems/code bases, I would be glad to agree with you.

 

 

Emulation always provides a bottleneck, and in the system they have in place right now will always have a bottleneck. They are emulating the original Xbox 360 OS, not making an emulator that simply pretends to be the Xbox 360 OS. Highest performance (without rewriting the game) would be Xbox One shading Xbox 360 APIs, with all methods replaced to forward to the Xbox One API.

 

 

Actually the system has not been revealed, what they "revealed was vague enough to mean anything. and from what the described it's a lot closer to Wine than you think. 

 

I didn't say they had substantially different code bases, just that the console versions are far more bare metal, ie. like DX12, hence why DX12 on the Xbox one won't give the same performance boost as on PC.

[George P Global Moderator]

Without knowing all the details about what they did exactly and so on, I'd say the tests done so far show that it does give you better performance in most cases, loading times and so on, but still needs work in some other areas, until this goes final in the fall/winter to everyone they'll have it worked out I'm sure, and have added a good deal more games as well.

[FloatingFatMan]

Did anyone actually lose at E3?

 

Ok maybe my nephew cause he got a WiiU for his birthday.

 

Personally, I'd love a Wii U.  I wanna play Mario Kart 8!

[President Devil]

Hmmm, just played on an Xbox One at a friend's house. Hexic blew up in size from about 60MB on the 360 to 600MB on the Xbox One. Clearly they are installing additional software alongside the games.

They're probably installing the emulator alongside every game in a folder with specific settings for the emulator but a game blowing up 10 times in size is quite significant.

[FloatingFatMan]

Hmmm, just played on an Xbox One at a friend's house. Hexic blew up in size from about 60MB on the 360 to 600MB on the Xbox One. Clearly they are installing additional software alongside the games.

They're probably installing the emulator alongside every game in a folder with specific settings for the emulator but a game blowing up 10 times in size is quite significant.

 

So basically, a custom Hyper-V image for every single emulated game with an ~540MB footprint on top of the game itself... Ouch.

[spenser.d]

So basically, a custom Hyper-V image for every single emulated game with an ~540MB footprint on top of the game itself... Ouch.

Small price to pay for not having to turn on my 360. And it's free, so there's that. Gotta say I enjoyed playing super meat boy and banjo kazooie again

[FloatingFatMan]

Small price to pay for not having to turn on my 360. And it's free, so there's that. Gotta say I enjoyed playing super meat boy and banjo kazooie again

 

Kinda negates the ability for a "quick" game though, doesn't it? And if your game collection is large, you're going to be doing a fair bit of reinstalling.

 

Seems rather inefficient to me to have multiple installs of the hyper-v image...