Apple Removes All American Civil War Games - Because of the Confederate Flag

[Dashel]

The Game-Labs Team (makers of Ultimate General: Gettysburg) response.  Spot on.

 

http://www.ultimategeneral.com/blog/our-game-has-been-removed-from-appstore

I like that they brought up that games can express ideas just like more conventional media can.

 

Just get rid of it!

Get rid of it from where is the question, you really think it should be scrubbed and censored completely?

[eddman]

Good move by Apple. We need these powerhouse's to make a stand on controversial issues like this. This stupid flag should have been removed from our culture long ago, and like Obama said, the history of the flag belongs in a museum. There is a bigger issue here, and it is not as trivial as it seems.

Come on, now. You must really be joking.

 

It's just a game, based on historical events. What other flags should the in-game units fly then? France?

 

History is history. It's gone; it's done. The confederacy is no more. They cannot do anything, anymore, good or bad, since they don't exist. Changing and censoring their flags will not achieve anything at all. Actually everyone SHOULD know about the confederacy, the american civil war and everything related to them. It's because of those events that US is where it is today.

 

P.S. I did and do agree with the removal of NAVY/BATTLE/whatever flags (did any gov office ever fly the actual confederate flag?) from government buildings, but censoring confederate flags from any kind of media is just infinitely stupid and moronic.

[HawkMan]

Only if it offends a large population of people. If African Americans didn't care, so be it. Just a little empathy for all people.

 

Removing the flag of their ancestors oppressors doesn't change the fact it happened, never mind the fact that anyone who lived under slavery are long since dead. Seeing the flag in a game that shows a historical battle is not offending to anyone no matter how black they are, ask your black friends if they want the flag removed from historical games. they'll probably all say no, it's MORE offensive to them and their history to remove the flag.  then you're taking the face away from the oppressors, making them nobodies and allowing them to rise again. 

[Active.]

I don't think you'd find many Germans wanting to fly a swastika. That flag stood for a backward agenda also (Yes I know it was originally a buddhist and Hinduist emblem)

It's actually forbidden by law in Germany.

[DConnell Member]

It's actually forbidden by law in Germany.

 

In everyday life. Is it used in history books and relevant historical sites?

[Mockingbird]

Did South Africa change their flag after they stopped slavery?

Yes, it did after apartheid.

 

 

If they still use the same flag, should we remove their flag as well? ...

No need for us to step in.

 

 

 

This thing just becomes stupid.

Ah, no. South Africa changed its flag because its old flag represented oppression.

[+JHBrown Subscriber¹]

Thanks for keeping the discussion civil folks, really appreciate it. You all make some valid points, and I want to add that I have no problem with the flag being shown for a history lesson. However, I do have a problem with the flag being shown for entertainment and pleasure. Do we really need it in video games that have no history lesson involved? Do we need it sprawled across our lifted trucks? How about draped across the front of our lawns at home? I believe there is an appropriate time for everything, and the appropriate time for this flag to be shown is for a lesson on American History like a museum, classroom, or an American History website like civilwar.org.

[+Warwagon MVC]

What's next... the Miniseries North and South being pulled from Amazon?

[Rippleman]

Easy way to think of it for those having a problem understanding "why?". Don't think of it as an "object" being removed, think of the message that's being used WITH the object. If used in a way to inspire/promote hatred and/or similar ideals, banned. Not too hard.

[+JHBrown Subscriber¹]

Easy way to think of it for those having a problem understanding "why?". Don't think of it as and "object" being removed, thing of the message that's being used WITH the object. If used in a way to inspire/promote hatred and/or similar ideals, banned. Not too hard.

This is spot on. Like I said above, for educational purposes, I'm fine with the flag. Everyday use, throw it off the face of the earth.

[Dashel]

So now you want to take away an individual's right to display it too?  Wow.

 

Why is it the ones that defend flag burning generally are the first to turn traitor on issues like this?  Its either speech or its not.  Ohnoes to hurt feelings.

[DConnell Member]

Thanks for keeping the discussion civil folks, really appreciate it. You all make some valid points, and I want to add that I have no problem with the flag being shown for a history lesson. However, I do have a problem with the flag being shown for entertainment and pleasure. Do we really need it in video games that have no history lesson involved? Do we need it sprawled across our lifted trucks? How about draped across the front of our lawns at home? I believe their is an appropriate time for everything, and the appropriate time for this flag to be shown is for a history lesson on American History like a museum, classroom, or an American History website like civilwar.org.

 

But couldn't even a video game be used as an educational tool? Just because something is recreation that doesn't mean it can't be historically accurate. Or more to the point, that it shouldn't be allowed to be historically accurate. I actually recall being a bit annoyed when watching the Captain America intro episode of Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes set in WWII. They didn't use the swastika on the German troops or equipment, which made it seem that WWII was fought against "Hydra" rather than against the Nazis. Even in the Captain America movie they still used the Nazis, even if Hydra was Cap's main opponent. While showing the holocaust would have been out of line, the show did its viewers a disservice by not showing the actual enemy and its symbols.

 

My point is, anything can be used to teach history in the right circumstances. It shouldn't fall to Apple to decide that this medium (films) merits using the Confederate flag but games cannot. The fact is, the Confederates flew that flag. Why shouldn't the game developers be allowed to reflect actual history in the game?

[Dot Matrix]

Good move by Apple. We need these powerhouse's to make a stand on controversial issues like this. This stupid flag should have been removed from our culture long ago, and like Obama said, the history of the flag belongs in a museum. There is a bigger issue here, and it is not as trivial as it seems.

Err, what? 

 

[+JHBrown Subscriber¹]

Err, what?

Funny GIFs do not change the fact that this flag has put a large portion of Americans through decades of pain and misery.

[Dot Matrix]

Funny GIFs do not change the fact that this flag has put a large portion of Americans through decades of pain and misery.

Right, but you can not, and should not eliminate it from history. That's dangerous. You cannot fault a game developer for wanting nothing more than to be historically accurate. Continuing to fly the flag on state grounds is dumb. Having it placed in media in a historical context is not.

[Active.]

In everyday life. Is it used in history books and relevant historical sites?

I guess it depends. Just compare the English Wikipedia entry for Nazi symbolism with the German one. Take this for what it's worth:

 

 

(3) Subsection (1) shall not be applicable if the means of propaganda or the act serves to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about current historical events or similar purposes.

[HawkMan]

Thanks for keeping the discussion civil folks, really appreciate it. You all make some valid points, and I want to add that I have no problem with the flag being shown for a history lesson. However, I do have a problem with the flag being shown for entertainment and pleasure. Do we really need it in video games that have no history lesson involved? Do we need it sprawled across our lifted trucks? How about draped across the front of our lawns at home? I believe there is an appropriate time for everything, and the appropriate time for this flag to be shown is for a lesson on American History like a museum, classroom, or an American History website like civilwar.org.

 

But it does have a history lesson involved, all historical games do. 

 

this is a game about gettysburg, if it had een a game like Wolfenstein then sure, but it isn't. 

[eddman]

However, I do have a problem with the flag being shown for entertainment and pleasure.

So you think that not a single movie should exist that depicts the civil war?

 

Do we really need it in video games that have no history lesson involved?

What makes you think games do not have any historical facts or lessons within them? The Gettysburg games are among the most historically accurate games there are, IINM.

 

Do we need it sprawled across our lifted trucks? How about draped across the front of our lawns at home?

I have no opinion. It's a personal matter.

 

I believe there is an appropriate time for everything, and the appropriate time for this flag to be shown is for a lesson on American History like a museum, classroom, or an American History website like civilwar.org.

You cannot hide from it or deny it. It exists. Banning it from movies, games, etc. will achieve nothing.

 

I guess it depends. Just compare the English Wikipedia entry for Nazi symbolism with the German one. Take this for what it's worth:

IMO, the law needs changing. Showing nazi symbols in entertainment media absolutely doesn't hurt anyone, considering that in pretty much all of them, the nazis are the ones getting killed and being defeated.

The same goes for encyclopedias. They are not propaganda. They are just stating the facts.

P.S. They did show inglorious basterds in germany, right? Did they censor nazi symbols from the movie? I know they did it for the posters and the title. Not sure about the movie itself.

[Studio384]

Good move by Apple. We need these powerhouse's to make a stand on controversial issues like this. This stupid flag should have been removed from our culture long ago, and like Obama said, the history of the flag belongs in a museum. There is a bigger issue here, and it is not as trivial as it seems.

It should have been removed from todays culture, but that is no good excuse to try to rewrite history as a whole.

[+JHBrown Subscriber¹]

Right, but you can not, and should not eliminate it from history. That's dangerous. You cannot fault a game developer for wanting nothing more than to be historically accurate. Continuing to fly the flag on state grounds is dumb. Having it placed in media in a historical context is not.

If you read my previous posts, you will see that I specifically said it should remain in American History; museums, schools, American History scholarly websites.

[+Red King Subscriber²]

"If we forget about it, erase it from history, and call those that support it's memory evil - we are bound not to repeat it" - Political Correctness Man

[Rippleman]

So you think that not a single movie should exist that depicts the civil war?

 

What makes you think games do not have any historical facts or lessons within them? The Gettysburg games are among the most historically accurate games there are, IINM.

 

I have no opinion. It's a personal matter.

 

You cannot hide from it or deny it. It exists. Banning it from movies, games, etc. will achieve nothing.

 

IMO, the law needs changing. Showing nazi symbols in entertainment media absolutely doesn't hurt anyone, considering that in pretty much all of them, the nazis are the ones getting killed and being defeated.

The same goes for encyclopedias. They are not propaganda. They are just stating the facts.

P.S. They did show inglorious basterds in germany, right? Did they censor nazi symbols from the movie? I know they did it for the posters and the title. Not sure about the movie itself.

 

You, like many others, are 100% missing what he is saying.

[x-scratch]

ok you wanna remove history? ok lets get rid of martin luther king street & signs then , lets get rid golds gym & camo pants since that what the shooter was wearing in the pics

[hagjohn]

I'm all for states not flying the flag but in this case, I'm not for removing historical games that are trying to show a realistic view of battles.

[redfish]

Well, I'm glad that this is happening, only because it will expose to everyone how fanatical this type of cultural politics is at its core.