New Server: What should I upgrade?

[BinaryData]

Well.. I found a good deal on a server, and I bought it. The question is, what should I upgrade on it, other than the obvious memory?

HP Proliant DL360 G5 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/191374500271?_trksid=p2046448

For some reason it won't let me link it.

I believe a new NIC is in order, HDD (more), and Memory. I don't know much about RAIDs, other than it's annoying to swap the batteries at work.

This is going to be an ESX Host, but to start off with, I'll have Windows Server 2012 DC on it. I have a project I need it for, and then I'll be putting ESX on it.

 

[+BudMan MVC]

The only thing on that worth anything are the most likely the nics.. I just don't get why anyone would want to use 10 year old tech that is going to sound like a jet is landing in your house..  And is not in a case designed for a HOME lab.. You have a rack - you going to put it in the garage..

 

What is the power draw on that?  Pretty sure its going to be like a kid in a candy store - you will be able to watch your meter spinning faster after you fire that beast up..

 

Have fun..

 

 

[BinaryData]

I find things in life are all about learning. Would you give your kid the keys to your brand new Porsche 911? No, no sane parent would do that but you would give the keys to the beat up Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera. 

[xendrome]

It's just a 1U unit, the power draw is probably less then 100w idle, and the sound isn't that bad either.

OP, memory yes, NIC is already gigabit dual...

[Mando]

that 1 u looks like it comes with a 700W psu and a redundant one in chassis, so itll be more than 100W idle  more like 200W (you could pull out the backup, but thats a bit pointless)

not bad for the £ but it does state that you do not get the blanking plates or the caddies for the other SAS bays, they can be pricy if you need them, also check if the HP can accept standard ram, all my ibms state they use standard ram but IBM move the nick out of the connector so standard stuff doesn't fit, cant remember offhand if HP do the same on proliants back in G5 era, I think they do.  

for learning, poking around 2k12, itll be fine.

Be careful with replacing the drives, 73gbrs are usually HP firmware locked Seagate cheetahs IIRC u230W SCSI jobs in HP caddys. these are getting harder to come by, just as the 146gbrs with IBM blades/San arrays are getting scarce.

The non os bays don't come with the caddies either, normally you cant just bung in domestic drives into a Compaq/HP caddy and expect it to just work, the backplane connector is built into the caddy nd it will look for HP custom firmware on the cheetahs, been stung with that myself before.

 

Edited August 2, 2015 by Mando

[xendrome]

Size of the power supply doesn't dictate the draw of the components. But even 200W isn't much.

[Mando]

Size of the power supply doesn't dictate the draw of the components. But even 200W isn't much.

Agreed buddy, but that generation of Xeons aren't exactly the most power efficient, including all the RAID backplanes and other items in an enterprise grade server. 2 slot dual core giving quad physical core.

Processing power per W will be a lot lower than say a mid-high desktop in domestic range. Running a DC on 2012 on that age of hardware will work that server a bit (even at "idle") requiring more than just nominal power combined with a potential 24/7 running of said server, while I don't know what the OP pays for electric rates, I know I wouldn't want it running 24/7 at home here in the UK  

I personally would have used the £ to upgrade my desktop at home and fire up ESXi first then pop on a 2012 DC, but I have access to servers and redundant servers i can build into labs, not all of us have that luxury.

even if its just to play around with and get comfy with server tech/hardware it aint a crazy idea.

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2015 by Mando

[BinaryData]

Agreed buddy, but that generation of Xeons aren't exactly the most power efficient, including all the RAID backplanes and other items in an enterprise grade server. 2 slot dual core giving quad physical core.

Processing power per W will be a lot lower than say a mid-high desktop in domestic range. Running a DC on 2012 on that age of hardware will work that server a bit (even at "idle") requiring more than just nominal power combined with a potential 24/7 running of said server, while I don't know what the OP pays for electric rates, I know I wouldn't want it running 24/7 at home here in the UK  

I personally would have used the £ to upgrade my desktop at home and fire up ESXi first then pop on a 2012 DC, but I have access to servers and redundant servers i can build into labs, not all of us have that luxury.

even if its just to play around with and get comfy with server tech/hardware it aint a crazy idea.

 

 

 

You'll hate me for this, but I hate pay 3 cents per KW. 

Once I'm ready to build a desktop ESX, I'll be giving this server to my local college. They've got a mini-server room that's called the "Fish Bowl". It's the incoming fiber room for that section of the school. It's also closed off from the rest of the school, network wise. It'll be a good edition for them. I figure in a month or two I'll build my other ESX box.

I kind of bought this without reading into a bit more. I feel dumb for buying this now =/

[+BudMan MVC]

"But even 200W isn't much."

 

I bet you it draws more than that idle -- why don't you put a killawatt on it when you get it..  And 9 freaking fans = NOISE!!! And Power draw

 

Washington state is not 3 cents per KW??  I show the avg there 8.9cents which is FREAKING CHEAP!!!

 

http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cfm?t=epmt_5_6_a

 

Lets call it 9 cents..  So I calc that at about 43 cents a day x 30 = 13$ a month to run..  When has to wait til payday to buy a $100 item  would think 13 a month is a pretty stiff hit for a 10 year old POS.  On the hand my n40l only draws like 50watts ($4.5 a month cost to run here in IL which has higher elec) and is quiet like a mouse compared to that jet engine he will be turning on.  Also its not that its only 1 U, is the the length and wdith that take up room..  Can not sit it in the corner of your room is my point.  19" x 28" is not small for floor space.. My n40L is 8 x 10 = big difference on floor space.  He can run it on one psu I am sure - but its going to be large, noisy, and costly to operate compared to something current.  Not even counting the caddies it only takes 2.5 inch drives.. Which is fine if your going to put SSD in it, but its only sata 2 so not even getting full speed of them, etc.

 

"I feel dumb for buying this now =/"

 

Can you cancel it??  You take for ever and ever to buy something - you asked me about esx what 6+ months ago - then you buy this.. You brought up one of these relic's of a by gone era a while back and I told you what I thought of doing that.. Oh well.

edit:  When they going to fix the double space issue in the editor?

Edited August 3, 2015 by BudMan

[Mando]

You'll hate me for this, but I hate pay 3 cents per KW. 
Once I'm ready to build a desktop ESX, I'll be giving this server to my local college. They've got a mini-server room that's called the "Fish Bowl". It's the incoming fiber room for that section of the school. It's also closed off from the rest of the school, network wise. It'll be a good edition for them. I figure in a month or two I'll build my other ESX box.

I kind of bought this without reading into a bit more. I feel dumb for buying this now =/

hmm binary something very odd going on, you quoted my post that I can no longer find in the story

Budman,  if hes stuck with it, he can use it as a space heater for his PC room (im joking)

[BinaryData]

hmm binary something very odd going on, you quoted my post that I can no longer find in the story

Budman,  if hes stuck with it, he can use it as a space heater for his PC room (im joking)

Weird. That's strange =/ As for heat, that'd work but the sound would drive my family insane. No, 

"But even 200W isn't much."

 

I bet you it draws more than that idle -- why don't you put a killawatt on it when you get it..  And 9 freaking fans = NOISE!!! And Power draw

 

Washington state is not 3 cents per KW??  I show the avg there 8.9cents which is FREAKING CHEAP!!!

 

http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cfm?t=epmt_5_6_a

 

Lets call it 9 cents..  So I calc that at about 43 cents a day x 30 = 13$ a month to run..  When has to wait til payday to buy a $100 item  would think 13 a month is a pretty stiff hit for a 10 year old POS.  On the hand my n40l only draws like 50watts ($4.5 a month cost to run here in IL which has higher elec) and is quiet like a mouse compared to that jet engine he will be turning on.  Also its not that its only 1 U, is the the length and wdith that take up room..  Can not sit it in the corner of your room is my point.  19" x 28" is not small for floor space.. My n40L is 8 x 10 = big difference on floor space.  He can run it on one psu I am sure - but its going to be large, noisy, and costly to operate compared to something current.  Not even counting the caddies it only takes 2.5 inch drives.. Which is fine if your going to put SSD in it, but its only sata 2 so not even getting full speed of them, etc.

 

 

Can you cancel it??  You take for ever and ever to buy something - you asked me about esx what 6+ months ago - then you buy this.. You brought up one of these relic's of a by gone era a while back and I told you what I thought of doing that.. Oh well.

edit:  When they going to fix the double space issue in the editor?

Can't cancel it, and we don't go by EIA, from what I can remember. That's state average, Seattle you'll pay 9 cents, where I live it's roughly 3 cents (if you round up). Power is super cheap, I live between two dams, and the only natural disaster we have to worry about is snow. Which rarely hits hard enough to make me break out jeans in the Winter. I know, I bought something a little impulsively, but I'll use it to the best of my ability. It was shipped out already. I was going to buy a 16GB Refurb kit for this server, but I think I'm just going to see how well things go, and if I don't like it, donate it, and get a different box.

If it ups the bill too much, I'll donate it to my local college, and those kids can have fun learning on it. As for asking you about ESX 6 months ago, a lot has happened between then and now. Not to mention I have more bills to pay. I'll pick up a better tower by the end of the month.

I'll give that server a 30 day trial, if BudMan's right, and I hate it, I'll grab this Lenovo and I'll listen to him from there on out.

[+BudMan MVC]

So that 10 year old POS is half the cost of that.. Yeah WTF were you thinking..  If you wouldn't of wasted money like that you would be half way there to owning something you could actual use and expand without much effort or cost.. And won't sound like a freaking jet taking off in your living room.

 

And small enough to put in a corner 6.88" x 14.76"

 

[BinaryData]

So that 10 year old POS is half the cost of that.. Yeah WTF were you thinking..  If you wouldn't of wasted money like that you would be half way there to owning something you could actual use and expand without much effort or cost.. And won't sound like a freaking jet taking off in your living room.

 

And small enough to put in a corner 6.88" x 14.76"

 

You're sounding like my mom and it's scary.. "Damn it Thomas, WHY'D you buy that one? THIS one was cheaper!" I'm an impulse buyer, I've had it contained for the last year or so, I've done well not to break my bank account. I eff'd that up Saturday, haha. That Lenovo is next on my list with 32GB of RAM, a SSD, and a platter drive or two. That should suffice.

So basically, BudMan's answer is right. I'm an idiot, I shouldn't have bought it, and I should've listened. No disrespect here, but I guess it's true, the older you are, the wiser you are.

[ToneKnee]

I think Budman was a bit abrupt there but I can understand why he's annoyed.  eBay is being flooded with old hardware like this and people are buying them up thinking they are infact getting a great deal.  It's pretty much far from the truth and even when I was reading your original post I was going "Please no, just no".  I would have saved up and got something like HP Microserver Gen8 like I have (I installed a Xeon 1240v2 in it as well).  Don't get me wrong, I would love to have some U1 rack servers but I would do some reading before buying this stuff.  I don't believe those servers even have modern virtualisation needed by the newer versions of ESXi etc.

[n_K]

Be careful with replacing the drives, 73gbrs are usually HP firmware locked Seagate cheetahs IIRC u230W SCSI jobs in HP caddys. these are getting harder to come by, just as the 146gbrs with IBM blades/San arrays are getting scarce.

The non os bays don't come with the caddies either, normally you cant just bung in domestic drives into a Compaq/HP caddy and expect it to just work, the backplane connector is built into the caddy nd it will look for HP custom firmware on the cheetahs, been stung with that myself before.

 

I've got a HP DL160 G6 and that's just not true. The backplane connector is NOT part of the caddy and I've never seen a server where it would be, that would be one very expensive system and wouldn't really make any sense to a production company because they'd have to spend a lot more money to make it and everything would cost much more - you'd just buy a cheaper server with the same specs from a competitor's company.

Also the bit about needing custom firmware is wrong too, you can use any firmware drive you want. The HP firmware is just to say 'its guaranteed to work in a HP server' just like this HP SCSI card I have and the HP memory, it's more of a warranty thing, if you're having a problem with a (new) server and go back to HP support and have put new equipment in that's not got the HP sticker on it they'll say they can't help until that hardware is removed, it doesn't mean it won't work though.

[n_K]

I think Budman was a bit abrupt there but I can understand why he's annoyed.  eBay is being flooded with old hardware like this and people are buying them up thinking they are infact getting a great deal.  It's pretty much far from the truth and even when I was reading your original post I was going "Please no, just no".  I would have saved up and got something like HP Microserver Gen8 like I have (I installed a Xeon 1240v2 in it as well).  Don't get me wrong, I would love to have some U1 rack servers but I would do some reading before buying this stuff.  I don't believe those servers even have modern virtualisation needed by the newer versions of ESXi etc.

It has VT-X which is good enough for ESXi, http://ark.intel.com/products/33080/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5410-12M-Cache-2_33-GHz-1333-MHz-FSB

[+BudMan MVC]

"I think Budman was a bit abrupt there but I can understand why he's annoyed."

ToneKnee and everyone else that might think I was abrupt or harsh in my statements.  You have not been privy to the mass amounts of PMs to me from BD..

Months ago, he brought up older box from ebay that he was looking at, and back then I gave him my honest opinion of such hardware.  While such hardware could be a god send to those running on old stuff and there is failure and need to repair or replace exact piece of hardware for whatever reason.  And I am sure there is market for such stuff.

Buying such hardware for a new project makes no sense to me.  Even when there is a very limited budget.  It is antiquated tech, mind you 10 years ago is was sweet stuff.  Now its just pretty much junk IMHO!!  The cost of that dl360 from ebay is half the cost of the ts140 he linked too..  Lets forget all the other older tech and just compare the cpus

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=1230&cmp[]=1993

This is the cpu I found that box from having from looking up the upc code listed on the ebay page he linked too.  Just raw benchmark the ts140 blows that old box away.  Now lets take into account sata 3 vs 2, usb 3 vs 2 and lots of expansion slots. Etc.. etc.. etc..  Now if that dl360 was FREE or couple of bucks - hey you could make it work..  But at that price point that puts you half way to the cost of something current with way more features and expansion, etc. etc.. You can understand my frustration !!

Even if someone gave me that thing free I don't think I would have a use for it..  In this day and age IT tech that is that old is JUNK!

Not trying to be harsh or abrupt - just giving my honest opinion..

 

[Mando]

As budman has said there's a lot of history on this project between them and budman is not rude or abrupt, in fact hes one member i have a hell of a lot of time for, his openness and honesty are admirable, not to mention I respect his advice immensely, he knows his shizzle!

I suppose you could say if you did not know the "bud" and the project history on this between them both, then it may seem that way, but its not intended that way at all, infact i doubt the OP feels like that, do you Binary? (I get the sensei and his student vibe)

A spade is a spade with Budman, that's what i like about him on the forums, life would be easier if more were like that online and in RL imo, especially in Tech industry.

right enough kissing his old botty  (gawd i hope hes older than me so 43 at least :P)

@Binary dont feel like an idiot mate, we have all impulse bought hardware with great intentions, to then realise erm oops wtf did i do that for?

We wouldnt have the phrase, "seemed a good idea at the time" in English would we?

I bought an ATI 9800pro AIW once, seemed a GREAT idea at the time.  5 cards later i gave up  (Sparkle Brand duh, how daft was I)

Heck I paid for Win Me!!!  (UPG SKU in my defense guv`nor) Its called a techs learning curve!  

Chalk it up to experience mate.

re: backplane, i meant on the caddys the connector for the SCSI 73gbrs connect the drives to the caddy which connects to the connectors (hmm too many connect words), or they are on the retired proliant G5s we have lying around.

RE: HDD firmware lock , apologies you are correct, I was getting confused with various X series and blade IBMS, i had a look today when in the server storage lockup, my bad. Only lovely IBM carry out such devious tricks, sorry HP

have a play around with it, then your idea of donating it to the local college is a great idea, one thing i regretted eons ago at college, despite doing an IT support deg we never got to physically touch a server, let alone swap out parts etc probs why i love it so much workwise 15yr later  they are all MY babies! 

 

Edited August 4, 2015 by Mando

[binaryzero]

Use the machine as a heater in winter. 

[BinaryData]

"I think Budman was a bit abrupt there but I can understand why he's annoyed."

ToneKnee and everyone else that might think I was abrupt or harsh in my statements.  You have not been privy to the mass amounts of PMs to me from BD..

Months ago, he brought up older box from ebay that he was looking at, and back then I gave him my honest opinion of such hardware.  While such hardware could be a god send to those running on old stuff and there is failure and need to repair or replace exact piece of hardware for whatever reason.  And I am sure there is market for such stuff.

Buying such hardware for a new project makes no sense to me.  Even when there is a very limited budget.  It is antiquated tech, mind you 10 years ago is was sweet stuff.  Now its just pretty much junk IMHO!!  The cost of that dl360 from ebay is half the cost of the ts140 he linked too..  Lets forget all the other older tech and just compare the cpus

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=1230&cmp[]=1993

This is the cpu I found that box from having from looking up the upc code listed on the ebay page he linked too.  Just raw benchmark the ts140 blows that old box away.  Now lets take into account sata 3 vs 2, usb 3 vs 2 and lots of expansion slots. Etc.. etc.. etc..  Now if that dl360 was FREE or couple of bucks - hey you could make it work..  But at that price point that puts you half way to the cost of something current with way more features and expansion, etc. etc.. You can understand my frustration !!

Even if someone gave me that thing free I don't think I would have a use for it..  In this day and age IT tech that is that old is JUNK!

Not trying to be harsh or abrupt - just giving my honest opinion..

 

Yeah. BudMan and I have talked about this quite extensively. I went full retard on this one. Pardon the derogatory name. I prefer that BudMan is not honest and straight forward, and not coddling.

As budman has said there's a lot of history on this project between them and budman is not rude or abrupt, in fact hes one member i have a hell of a lot of time for, his openness and honesty are admirable, not to mention I respect his advice immensely, he knows his shizzle!

I suppose you could say if you did not know the "bud" and the project history on this between them both, then it may seem that way, but its not intended that way at all, infact i doubt the OP feels like that, do you Binary? (I get the sensei and his student vibe)

A spade is a spade with Budman, that's what i like about him on the forums, life would be easier if more were like that online and in RL imo, especially in Tech industry.

right enough kissing his old botty  (gawd i hope hes older than me so 43 at least :P)

@Binary dont feel like an idiot mate, we have all impulse bought hardware with great intentions, to then realise erm oops wtf did i do that for?

We wouldnt have the phrase, "seemed a good idea at the time" in English would we?

I bought an ATI 9800pro AIW once, seemed a GREAT idea at the time.  5 cards later i gave up  (Sparkle Brand duh, how daft was I)

Heck I paid for Win Me!!!  (UPG SKU in my defense guv`nor) Its called a techs learning curve!  

Chalk it up to experience mate.

re: backplane, i meant on the caddys the connector for the SCSI 73gbrs connect the drives to the caddy which connects to the connectors (hmm too many connect words), or they are on the retired proliant G5s we have lying around.

RE: HDD firmware lock , apologies you are correct, I was getting confused with various X series and blade IBMS, i had a look today when in the server storage lockup, my bad. Only lovely IBM carry out such devious tricks, sorry HP

have a play around with it, then your idea of donating it to the local college is a great idea, one thing i regretted eons ago at college, despite doing an IT support deg we never got to physically touch a server, let alone swap out parts etc probs why i love it so much workwise 15yr later  they are all MY babies! 

 

I feel like an idiot because I knew better, and having extensive conversations with BudMan, and sc302 about these sorts of things.

[binaryzero]

Just to put things in perspective - typical life span of server\desktop hardware in any good organisation is 5 years before they're replaced. Keyword: good.

[BinaryData]

Just to put things in perspective - typical life span of server\desktop hardware in any good organisation is 5 years before they're replaced. Keyword: good.

DCs it's 3 years, home its 5, 7 or longer if you baby it.

My mom still has her Toshiba Satellite from 2001. It works.

[binaryzero]

Doubles as an awesome paper weight, too?  

[BinaryData]

Doubles as an awesome paper weight, too?  

She's picky about her laptops. She wants one thats powerful as a desktop, but lighter than 5lbs. She's too picky!

[binaryzero]

My phone probably has more processing power than a 2001 laptop lol.