Windows 10 doesn't like adaptive CPU clock changing

[n_K]

I've noticed for a few days now that the time on my PC seems to be wrong, it's behind by 10-40 minutes, and I think I've just worked out when.

When I booted earlier, it shows 18:41 and my phone showed 18:40 - 1 minute out is fine by me... My phone is currently showing 20:42 and windows 10 is showing 20:18 (this is not a problem with my RTC, if I reboot it will get the correct time from the system).

The only thing different from a normal PC that I'm doing is running asus EPU to reduce my CPU speed, and system power, I've got it on 'Max Power Saving' and in windows 10 it's just no longer capable of keeping sync with the clock (there is no such problem with windows 7 (using EPU) or linux (using cpupowerd)).

So I'm at a loss (YET AGAIN) of what to do, it seems the only way I can mitigate this is by not having EPU (and my system running at full power and noise) or disabling EPU by setting it to max power usage, I'm not going to do either because that's just plain stupid, but I thought I'd post this just in case anyone else sees their system no longer working out something as simple as the time out...

 

(All I can think of is the old nokia/MS advertising campaign 'smartphonebetatest', and how windows 10 really doesn't seem to have had any internal testing)

[greenwizard88]

Intel CPUs should keep time regardless of voltage. I'd look into other considerations such as your CMOS battery being shot.

[+Eternal Tempest MVC]

Is there any bios updates for your motherboard as well?

[PGHammer]

I've noticed for a few days now that the time on my PC seems to be wrong, it's behind by 10-40 minutes, and I think I've just worked out when.

When I booted earlier, it shows 18:41 and my phone showed 18:40 - 1 minute out is fine by me... My phone is currently showing 20:42 and windows 10 is showing 20:18 (this is not a problem with my RTC, if I reboot it will get the correct time from the system).

The only thing different from a normal PC that I'm doing is running asus EPU to reduce my CPU speed, and system power, I've got it on 'Max Power Saving' and in windows 10 it's just no longer capable of keeping sync with the clock (there is no such problem with windows 7 (using EPU) or linux (using cpupowerd)).

So I'm at a loss (YET AGAIN) of what to do, it seems the only way I can mitigate this is by not having EPU (and my system running at full power and noise) or disabling EPU by setting it to max power usage, I'm not going to do either because that's just plain stupid, but I thought I'd post this just in case anyone else sees their system no longer working out something as simple as the time out...

 

(All I can think of is the old nokia/MS advertising campaign 'smartphonebetatest', and how windows 10 really doesn't seem to have had any internal testing)

What sort of network connection does the PC in question have?  If it is wireless (or metered), it does not connect to an NTP server as often as a wired connection.  If you multiboot (especially with OS X, though it can also be an issue with some Linux distributions, UNIX flavors, or BSDs) you may well have a default-settings mismatch (in terms of either time zone or NTP server, or both).  I have a single default NTP server on all my OSes  - time.nist.gov - it is located in Boulder, Colorado, and is run by the National Institute of Standards and Technology - it operates (but did not build) the Official Master Time Service for the United States.  Basically, the problem is an old problem, and is not unique to Windows.

[n_K]

Intel CPUs should keep time regardless of voltage. I'd look into other considerations such as your CMOS battery being shot.

Time keeping isn't related to the CPU, it should be read directly from the RTC (which as I've said is fine, if I reboot I can go into BIOS and see the correct time, the battery voltage is fine and the system is currently on mains power so the cell battery isn't being used for time keeping).

You get a similar problem with VMs which is with the likes of virtualbox and ESXi there are guest additions, one feature is a time syncronisation application because the number of CPU cycles for each VM isn't always the same depending on the system/VM load.

[n_K]

Is there any bios updates for your motherboard as well?

No. It's an old motherboard so there haven't been any updates in years (P5Q deluxe) but this isn't a BIOS issue - windows 7 and linux are fine.

What sort of network connection does the PC in question have?  If it is wireless (or metered), it does not connect to an NTP server as often as a wired connection.  If you multiboot (especially with OS X, though it can also be an issue with some Linux distributions, UNIX flavors, or BSDs) you may well have a default-settings mismatch (in terms of either time zone or NTP server, or both).  I have a single default NTP server on all my OSes  - time.nist.gov - it is located in Boulder, Colorado, and is run by the National Institute of Standards and Technology - it operates (but did not build) the Official Master Time Service for the United States.  Basically, the problem is an old problem, and is not unique to Windows.

Wired ethernet, NTP client is enabled on windows 10 but I'm not sure how often it updates the time over NTP. For the past week or so I've only booted windows 10 off a different hard drive, I've got the NTP server set to time.windows.com on my windows 7 install and on windows 10 it's enabled, there doesn't appear to be a way to configure the NTP server it uses but I assume it'd be using time.windows.com

Since the original post the drift between the PC and my phone is now 30 minutes, up from 24!

[neufuse Veteran]

Someone said this same thing about windows 7 and again about windows 8 and just turned out to be their hardware not keeping time right or saving time correctly when powered down

 

check your bios for updates, check your CMOS battery, etc

 

someone also saw this with speed step years ago, and it was something to do with their OC settings

[n_K]

Someone said this same thing about windows 7 and again about windows 8 and just turned out to be their hardware not keeping time right or saving time correctly when powered down

 

check your bios for updates, check your CMOS battery, etc

 

someone also saw this with speed step years ago, and it was something to do with their OC settings

I rebooted windows and went into BIOS and it showed the right time, so it's not hardware related. When I boot up windows shows the correct time, if I then leave it on for a few hours it loses the time, during this time it's switched on not turned off, if I then reboot it shows the correct time again.

I'd imagine it is related to speed step as EPU is under-clocking my RAM, CPU and chipset which is the same kinda thing, but why it works in windows 7 and not in windows 10 is bugging me.

[jakem1]

I've noticed for a few days now that the time on my PC seems to be wrong...

I've noticed for a few days now that you seem to be spending a lot of time attacking Win10 for problems that nobody else is having.  I really think you need to have a look at what's wrong with your PC and stop blaming the OS.

[Clirion]

I rebooted windows and went into BIOS and it showed the right time, so it's not hardware related. When I boot up windows shows the correct time, if I then leave it on for a few hours it loses the time, during this time it's switched on not turned off, if I then reboot it shows the correct time again.

I'd imagine it is related to speed step as EPU is under-clocking my RAM, CPU and chipset which is the same kinda thing, but why it works in windows 7 and not in windows 10 is bugging me.

Did you load the Speed Step tool or no? I have not had this problem.  I have not loaded the app though.  The system manages my CPU Speed.

 

[n_K]

I've noticed for a few days now that you seem to be spending a lot of time attacking Win10 for problems that nobody else is having.  I really think you need to have a look at what's wrong with your PC and stop blaming the OS.

I'm listing problems I'm encountering, that doesn't mean other people aren't encountering the same issues. There's nothing wrong with my pc which is why the hardware is working fine.

Did you load the Speed Step tool or no? I have not had this problem.  I have not loaded the app though.  The system manages my CPU Speed.

 

There's a speed step tool? Where do I get it?

[Clirion]

There's a speed step tool? Where do I get it?

Intel provided it.  Windows will manage the change state, and tool has caused more problems that it solved.  I just wanted to check as some people had that issue with the speed step tool loaded.

 

[Farchord]

If your computer is not keeping time, it's not the fault of the OS as others said. It's possible your CMOS battery might be dead.

[jasondefaoite]

If your computer is not keeping time, it's not the fault of the OS as others said. It's possible your CMOS battery might be dead.

If the time is correct in the BIOS, then there is no issue with the CMOS battery.

[+Biscuits Brown MVC]

I'm convinced its not his hardware but I think something else is at play because I'm running  Win10 on my Samsung Ultrabook and I have every single power saving option turned on both in bios and the OS (and I get just over 12 hours of usage every day doing this). My CPU spends most of its day at 800MHz bouncing up to 1.8Ghz when needed and my clock is spot on. I'm thinking its a system driver conflict in interacting with his hardware. Is that a Win10 issue? Maybe. More likely a bad chip set driver from Intel (or AMD).

[n_K]

Here's a screenshot of my W7 install, uptime of about 3 hours, time sync is fine. (I'll boot into W10 and leave it and upload a screenshot later on)

[n_K]

And here's my windows 10 install, I got the chipset drivers from the ASUS site and installed them and rebooted but it's not made a difference.

[muraded]

Hi n_K

I have the exact same issue... time in bios and on my dualboot windows 7 are right and keeping up with the current time, but on my windows 10, it only update when i boot or when i disable the re-enable the "set time automatically" option.

i'll look forward on here and post if i found a way

ps : last chance would be to use : http://www.timesynctool.com/ but....

[n_K]

Hi n_K

I have the exact same issue... time in bios and on my dualboot windows 7 are right and keeping up with the current time, but on my windows 10, it only update when i boot or when i disable the re-enable the "set time automatically" option.

i'll look forward on here and post if i found a way

ps : last chance would be to use : http://www.timesynctool.com/ but....

Only just noticed this post, I found a solution: https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1270202-windows-10-and-hpet-with-underclocking/
It stems down to windows 7 using the HPET if it's available but windows 10 refuses to use it by default (still can't work out why), if you force it to use HPET in the bootloader everything goes smooth.

[Circaflex]

Only just noticed this post, I found a solution: https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1270202-windows-10-and-hpet-with-underclocking/
It stems down to windows 7 using the HPET if it's available but windows 10 refuses to use it by default (still can't work out why), if you force it to use HPET in the bootloader everything goes smooth.

HPET issues are often isolated, not global. Only a minority of systems have HPET enabled associated latency. Windows 7 (and higher) only utilizes HPET for specific applications designed for that timer (when such applications are running). During normal use, Windows will not use HPET, regardless of it's BIOS setting. For many motherboards, disabling HPET does nothing at all. That's why most X99 motherboards don't come with a HPET setting. The OS and the application determine if and when HPET is active.AFAIK, Windows 8.1 and now Windows 10 use CPU's TSC instead of HPET, which is a more modern and optimized method of controlling timings.The OS uses TSC on most modern systems, but it WILL enable HPET if a specific program is written to use it, regardless of the HPET BIOS setting. That's why most X99 boards got rid of the HPET settings option.

[Torolol]

This actually a problem that inherited from Win 8x: https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-8-pc-benchmark-scores-banned-from-hwbot-database ,

 

 

Because this clock problem did not happen on Win7 or older.

[n_K]

 

HPET issues are often isolated, not global. Only a minority of systems have HPET enabled associated latency. Windows 7 (and higher) only utilizes HPET for specific applications designed for that timer (when such applications are running). During normal use, Windows will not use HPET, regardless of it's BIOS setting. For many motherboards, disabling HPET does nothing at all. That's why most X99 motherboards don't come with a HPET setting. The OS and the application determine if and when HPET is active.AFAIK, Windows 8.1 and now Windows 10 use CPU's TSC instead of HPET, which is a more modern and optimized method of controlling timings.The OS uses TSC on most modern systems, but it WILL enable HPET if a specific program is written to use it, regardless of the HPET BIOS setting. That's why most X99 boards got rid of the HPET settings option.

It's not to do with the motherboard using HPET or the bios setting, windows 10 will not use HPET by default for anything, it uses internal CPU timings which is great if your CPU speed doesn't change (or if it adjusts the timers which I guess might happen on newer hardware but it doesn't on mine) but if it does change then the whole system timer and other funky stuff goes wrong.
I set the HPET enabled flag for windows 10, rebooted and my system issue with time went away, my problem with the screensaver/screen timeout never occurring was also fixed, and the problem that lead me to think it was related to HPET was VLC no longer stutters like mad when playing a simple mp3 file.

[francescob]

CPUs from Pentium 4 to Core 2 duo seem to use a TSC rate that is independent of power states however it seems to be calculated against the maximum clock of the processor. If that software changes the CPU frequency ratio or the bus speed rather than just limiting the power states that's likely the cause.

[binaryzero]

Didn't this same problem appear with people using Boot camp on their MacBook Pros?

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

...

it uses internal CPU timings which is great if your CPU speed doesn't change (or if it adjusts the timers which I guess might happen on newer hardware but it doesn't on mine) but if it does change then the whole system timer and other funky stuff goes wrong.
...

Yeah, that's completely normal and they've done it for the better part of a decade, Microsoft knows what Speed Step is and accounts for it.

My system has the exact same CPU voltage/speed scaling enabled and I've never run into this problem, it's something localized to your system.

Edit: And Linux is the same too, wouldn't surprise me if OS X does the same thing. A modern OS does timekeeping itself, barely touches the RTC apart from reading it on boot/wake or setting it.