New Android phone confusion!

[Skiver Veteran]

I've had my Nexus 4 for a while (coming up for 3 years in Jan) and it's starting to get a little old and tired. I was holding out for the Google announcement yesterday before I made up my mind as I'd been pretty happy with the specs on the Moto X Play but now everything is out I really don't know what I want.

So a few things to keep in mind;

I will be buying the phone outright, no contract costs need to be considered
As with most people I don't want to spend a ridiculous amount but as the title suggests and my N4's history I want it to last so not ruling out the more expensive options
SD Storage is a nice to have, not a must as I have 3.35GB free on my 16GB N4
I use my phone I'd imagine like an average person does, checking email, bit of social media and some basic games.

Can't think of anything else I want/need etc. I know deep down I should probably get the Moto X Play as it will do what I need but I can't help but look at the old Snapdragon and think I should get something more modern (5x) however then I then convince myself that the SD slot on the X Style would be nice to have and isn't that much more and they are pretty comparable spec wise. Then I again think to hell with it, get the 6p, spend the money now and it will pay off in the long run.

insert argument for SD slot and just go round and round again.
 

Ninja Edit: I should mention that I prefer the vanilla Android and getting updates quicker, hence why none of the other bigger manufacturers are up there which is quite a major point for me. Happy for someone to try and convince me otherwise but the price would have to be somewhere in the middle.

[tsupersonic]

First, the devices you narrowed down to fit your criteria - fast updates, no bloat. The Nexus devices will get much faster updates than the Moto devices.

What do you value? Big screen, bigger battery life, camera, fingerprint reader?

Me personally, of all the devices you listed, I'd go with the Nexus 6P. It's a premium device, and hits all the marks of my requirements. I'm waiting for reviews of the device to see if it has a good camera, and has good battery life. It has 32 GB base storage, so double what you currently have. You can also get 64 or 128 GB models, if you are willing to pay a little bit more.

[Skiver Veteran]

Battery life is probably more important out of the things you've listed. Numbers tell me that the 6p has a bigger battery but as it has a slightly more powerful CPU (I think GPU too) and a bigger screen then chances are that extra bit of battery power will be negligible if anything.

I'm actually put off by the bigger screens on the X Pure or the 6P but I'm sure in time I'd get used to them so I'm trying not to rule them out.

Camera and finger prints are added bonus's so those would never really push me either way.

Again with the storage, more would be nice but I really don't see a need for them. I could see myself either probably rather going for a 32GB 5 x as it's got the extra storage but still cheaper. I'm just keen not to waste my money as much as getting a nice premium device is tempting,

A very small part of me is tempted to just buy a 2013 Nexus 5 as it would be a small upgrade on what I have for a tiny price but I've heard some not so good things about battery life on it.

[Draconian Guppy]

How do you feel on custom ROMS?

IMO the SD is only worth if you have your music collection/ziillions of ebooks, else, i've lived with 16gb just fine. To me all those people with 30,000 photos in their phone are just crazies  ( I know... not every one knows how to back up or has a pc...)

 

snail edit: did not see pole options, I'd say avoid any nexus, they're a just spec phones, nothing really to write home about, for that matter just buy some other chinese OEM OPPO, Meizu, etc.

For "future proofing" the x style has a snapdragon 808. Keep that in mind, the play has a 615, while certainly capable, will probably be written off earlier.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Draconian Guppy

[Skiver Veteran]

How do you feel on custom ROMS?

IMO the SD is only worth if you have your music collection/ziillions of ebooks, else, i've lived with 16gb just fine. To me all those people with 30,000 photos in their phone are just crazies  ( I know... not every one knows how to back up or has a pc...)

 

snail edit: did not see pole options, I'd say avoid any nexus, they're a just spec phones, nothing really to write home about, for that matter just buy some other chinese OEM OPPO, Meizu, etc.

For "future proofing" the x style has a snapdragon 808. Keep that in mind, the play has a 615, while certainly capable, will probably be written off earlier.

I'm not overly keen on the idea, of a custom ROM/weird chinese device. I've been to China, I've bought their "converse" etc and I know just how long they lasted.

I know I don't need the SD card, its more of a want for zero reasons.

Yep, I was looking into the CPU's yesterday evening and notice the 615 and the difference between the 808 in the Style/5x or the 810 in the 6p so I think as much as I love the phone, the Moto X Play is kinda out of the game.

I've had my Nexus 4 for nearly 3 years now and other than the getting more frequent lock ups and the dwindling battery life, I don't really have a need to replace it so for that reason I believe a Nexus is a known good thing for me (especially since the 5x is made by LG too).

One thing that is worrying me is I'm sure I remember reading about heating issues with the SD CPU's and my memory tells me it was an 808?

[Draconian Guppy]

 

I'm not overly keen on the idea, of a custom ROM/weird chinese device. I've been to China, I've bought their "converse" etc and I know just how long they lasted.

I know I don't need the SD card, its more of a want for zero reasons.

Yep, I was looking into the CPU's yesterday evening and notice the 615 and the difference between the 808 in the Style/5x or the 810 in the 6p so I think as much as I love the phone, the Moto X Play is kinda out of the game.

I've had my Nexus 4 for nearly 3 years now and other than the getting more frequent lock ups and the dwindling battery life, I don't really have a need to replace it so for that reason I believe a Nexus is a known good thing for me (especially since the 5x is made by LG too).

One thing that is worrying me is I'm sure I remember reading about heating issues with the SD CPU's and my memory tells me it was an 808?

*SD 810

On thing to note on the 810 do over heat and there are throttling issues (Which every phone does, it still outperforms the 805/808 on the long run).

 

IMO, this upgrade cycle, is not worth getting in to.   SD 820, next samsung exynos, should be a lot better, processing wise. ATM is basically a spec battle, no real changes except for spec battles.

After samsung drastically upped their build material/build quality game, perhaps they can focus on adding new features for the new s7. HTC has to come up with something after that m9 blunder.

basically cause I don't like your poll options  my suggetion would be:

factory reset and DIY battery http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/how-to-replace-the-nexus-4-battery-it-can-be-done-android/

 

[HawkMan]

Honestly I would worry less about "clean" rom and more about optimized android.

Clean roms basically means not a single driver or system driver/kernel has been optimized for the hardware and device. Fast android updates means either crappy optimizations or they also just didn't do it, they just slapped their skin on top of badly optimized drivers(Samsung).

If you want a good device with solid performance and good hardware, then I mostly can only reccomend Sony for an android phone. there's isn't much I reccomend sony for, but their android phones are good and they optimize their OS very well. do get the Z5 series over the Z3 though, as the Z3 has the unfortunate SoC with some heat problems. Though it's not really something you'll notice unless you game a lot. Sony phones also tend to have some of the best battery time, but that probably ties back to good optimizations. 

They're also waterproof, despite what they're trying to tell you, so that's a bonus. 

[Draconian Guppy]

Honestly I would worry less about "clean" rom and more about optimized android.

Clean roms basically means not a single driver or system driver/kernel has been optimized for the hardware and device. Fast android updates means either crappy optimizations or they also just didn't do it, they just slapped their skin on top of badly optimized drivers(Samsung).

If you want a good device with solid performance and good hardware, then I mostly can only reccomend Sony for an android phone. there's isn't much I reccomend sony for, but their android phones are good and they optimize their OS very well. do get the Z5 series over the Z3 though, as the Z3 has the unfortunate SoC with some heat problems. Though it's not really something you'll notice unless you game a lot. Sony phones also tend to have some of the best battery time, but that probably ties back to good optimizations. 

They're also waterproof, despite what they're trying to tell you, so that's a bonus. 

 

I agree,My sister had a Z3 and it felt really zippy compared to a s5 (touchwiz). HTC has a bad rep for android updates, but everyone on teh interweb praises their highly optimized sense skin. ( on the optimized android).

 

 

 

[spacer]

I'm in the same boat as you Skiver. I've had my Nexus 4 for 3 years now, and I'm looking to get something new.

I'm kind of in the middle of the "need to upgrade" and "want to upgrade". The power button on my phone doesn't work 100% for turning the screen on/off, and I experience similar lock-ups at random intervals. And the chrome lining around the front edge of the phone has been partially chipped away in several places, due to normal wear and tear, and it just looks crappy. But other than that, the phone still performs great and it does everything I need it to. And the battery still lasts longer than a day for me. So, really, I don't really NEED a new phone, but the power button and crashes are starting to annoy.

That being said, I'm also in the same boat when it comes to only wanting stock android. I hate the fact that OEMs still feel the need to bloat the OS with their crapware. Stock Android is a must have for me. Unfortunately, that severely limits my options to Nexus and Moto X devices.

The other big turn-off for me are the stupidly large phones that every manufacture is coming out with these days. Which, again severely limits my options.

The new Nexus devices are ugly as hell, in my opinion. Especially the 6P. I really had the asymmetrical back, and the two-tone colors. I really don't understand why others think it looks good. But oh well, I don't have to buy it. The 5X is, in my opinion, still too big but it would be manageable if I liked the rest of the phone. Unfortunately, I hate the camera bulge.

I love the hardware and design of Sony's Xperia series, but they don't have stock Android. Sigh.

Long story, short: looks like I'll putting up with my Nexus 4 for another year, hoping Google and OEMs take their head out of their asses and starts producing smaller phones. Or, if Sony wants to release an Xperia phone with stock Android with their next 6 month release cycle, I'd be happy too.

I won't hold my breath. /firstworldproblems

[Draconian Guppy]

I'm in the same boat as you Skiver. I've had my Nexus 4 for 3 years now, and I'm looking to get something new.

I'm kind of in the middle of the "need to upgrade" and "want to upgrade". The power button on my phone doesn't work 100% for turning the screen on/off, and I experience similar lock-ups at random intervals. And the chrome lining around the front edge of the phone has been partially chipped away in several places, due to normal wear and tear, and it just looks crappy. But other than that, the phone still performs great and it does everything I need it to. And the battery still lasts longer than a day for me. So, really, I don't really NEED a new phone, but the power button and crashes are starting to annoy.

That being said, I'm also in the same boat when it comes to only wanting stock android. I hate the fact that OEMs still feel the need to bloat the OS with their crapware. Stock Android is a must have for me. Unfortunately, that severely limits my options to Nexus and Moto X devices.

The other big turn-off for me are the stupidly large phones that every manufacture is coming out with these days. Which, again severely limits my options.

The new Nexus devices are ugly as hell, in my opinion. Especially the 6P. I really had the asymmetrical back, and the two-tone colors. I really don't understand why others think it looks good. But oh well, I don't have to buy it. The 5X is, in my opinion, still too big but it would be manageable if I liked the rest of the phone. Unfortunately, I hate the camera bulge.

I love the hardware and design of Sony's Xperia series, but they don't have stock Android. Sigh.

Long story, short: looks like I'll putting up with my Nexus 4 for another year, hoping Google and OEMs take their head out of their asses and starts producing smaller phones. Or, if Sony wants to release an Xperia phone with stock Android with their next 6 month release cycle, I'd be happy too.

I won't hold my breath. /firstworldproblems

This is where hawkman does have a point, not all OEM have severly bloated and under optimized skings, examples point above, , HTC Sense,Sony LG UIX (or whatever its called and in that order), they have come a long way.

[Skiver Veteran]

Honestly I would worry less about "clean" rom and more about optimized android.

Clean roms basically means not a single driver or system driver/kernel has been optimized for the hardware and device. Fast android updates means either crappy optimizations or they also just didn't do it, they just slapped their skin on top of badly optimized drivers(Samsung).

If you want a good device with solid performance and good hardware, then I mostly can only reccomend Sony for an android phone. there's isn't much I reccomend sony for, but their android phones are good and they optimize their OS very well. do get the Z5 series over the Z3 though, as the Z3 has the unfortunate SoC with some heat problems. Though it's not really something you'll notice unless you game a lot. Sony phones also tend to have some of the best battery time, but that probably ties back to good optimizations. 

They're also waterproof, despite what they're trying to tell you, so that's a bonus. 

 

I'll try and consider the Sony devices a little more but the issue with the Z5 is the cost, it's  a full £100 more than the 6p, not to member closer to £200 more than the 5x. it's then getting to that point where I don't think I can justify it, given my pretty basic needs.

The Z3+ again is around the same price and the Z3 looks to be a bit more on par with the 6p pricing (not sure on the differences between z3 and z3+) however you've already said don't go z3 so it makes me wary.

 

[Skiver Veteran]

I'm in the same boat as you Skiver. I've had my Nexus 4 for 3 years now, and I'm looking to get something new.

I'm kind of in the middle of the "need to upgrade" and "want to upgrade". The power button on my phone doesn't work 100% for turning the screen on/off, and I experience similar lock-ups at random intervals. And the chrome lining around the front edge of the phone has been partially chipped away in several places, due to normal wear and tear, and it just looks crappy. But other than that, the phone still performs great and it does everything I need it to. And the battery still lasts longer than a day for me. So, really, I don't really NEED a new phone, but the power button and crashes are starting to annoy.

That being said, I'm also in the same boat when it comes to only wanting stock android. I hate the fact that OEMs still feel the need to bloat the OS with their crapware. Stock Android is a must have for me. Unfortunately, that severely limits my options to Nexus and Moto X devices.

The other big turn-off for me are the stupidly large phones that every manufacture is coming out with these days. Which, again severely limits my options.

The new Nexus devices are ugly as hell, in my opinion. Especially the 6P. I really had the asymmetrical back, and the two-tone colors. I really don't understand why others think it looks good. But oh well, I don't have to buy it. The 5X is, in my opinion, still too big but it would be manageable if I liked the rest of the phone. Unfortunately, I hate the camera bulge.

I love the hardware and design of Sony's Xperia series, but they don't have stock Android. Sigh.

Long story, short: looks like I'll putting up with my Nexus 4 for another year, hoping Google and OEMs take their head out of their asses and starts producing smaller phones. Or, if Sony wants to release an Xperia phone with stock Android with their next 6 month release cycle, I'd be happy too.

I won't hold my breath. /firstworldproblems

 

My battery at the moment is claiming it will last until slightly after 22:00 where it was taken off charge around 08:00 so it does generally last me the day, but I know my walk home listening to Audio books will shorten that time down a bit and then any further use when I get home will bring it even closer. The issue I have is that I can make it last until I go to bed, but I'm finding I have to use my phone sparingly to do so or give it a quick charge every so often to keep it going. 

[oldtimefighter]

Honestly I would worry less about "clean" rom and more about optimized android.

Clean roms basically means not a single driver or system driver/kernel has been optimized for the hardware and device. Fast android updates means either crappy optimizations or they also just didn't do it, they just slapped their skin on top of badly optimized drivers(Samsung).

 

Huh? What do you mean by a "clean" ROM? At first, I thought you were taking about stock Android (but then your comment would be totally wrong) but then you ended with taking about Samsung? Did you mean to say a 3rd party AOSP based ROM?

I do agree Sony does a better job then HTC, LG, or Samsung but you pay for it.

OP: I voted for the Nexus 6P but that's what I getting and may NOT be the best for you. The Moto X Style is a great deal and has a near stock experience.

[Draconian Guppy]

 

I'll try and consider the Sony devices a little more but the issue with the Z5 is the cost, it's  a full £100 more than the 6p, not to member closer to £200 more than the 5x. it's then getting to that point where I don't think I can justify it, given my pretty basic needs.

The Z3+ again is around the same price and the Z3 looks to be a bit more on par with the 6p pricing (not sure on the differences between z3 and z3+) however you've already said don't go z3 so it makes me wary.

 

While the heat problems are real, they're  over-rated. You likely won't notice the heat unless you game for hours on end and even so, it DOES NOT affect the phones functionality, it only affects benchmarks.

 Reason why even google used the same 810 (albeit "improved" 2.1 version(more of a slightly improved))

[HawkMan]

 

Huh? What do you mean by a "clean" ROM? At first, I thought you were taking about stock Android (but then your comment would be totally wrong) but then you ended with taking about Samsung? Did you mean to say a 3rd party AOSP based ROM?

I do agree Sony does a better job then HTC, LG, or Samsung but you pay for it.

OP: I voted for the Nexus 6P but that's what I getting and may NOT be the best for you. The Moto X Style is a great deal and has a near stock experience.

I mean stock, and it doesn't change my comment at all. being stock doesn't mean optimized for the hardware, quite the opposite. just default drivers for everything, whereas Sony for exampl does a lot of optimization.

As for paying for it. Well compared to LG, perhaps, but they're quite equal, compared to Samsung... eh no... Equivalent Samsung phones are much more expensive than Sony ones. It's the primary reason I have a Z3 instead of a samsung, besides the fact the Sony just uses the hardware better.

While the heat problems are real, they're  over-rated. You likely won't notice the heat unless you game for hours on end and even so, it DOES NOT affect the phones functionality, it only affects benchmarks.

 Reason why even google used the same 810 (albeit "improved" 2.1 version(more of a slightly improved))

By siightly improved they mean "we underclocked them"

[HawkMan]

 

I'll try and consider the Sony devices a little more but the issue with the Z5 is the cost, it's  a full kr1,303.32 (£100) more than the 6p, not to member closer to kr2,606.64 (£200) more than the 5x. it's then getting to that point where I don't think I can justify it, given my pretty basic needs.

The Z3+ again is around the same price and the Z3 looks to be a bit more on par with the 6p pricing (not sure on the differences between z3 and z3+) however you've already said don't go z3 so it makes me wary.

 

There are several different Z5 models though. depending on size an such you want. 

[oldtimefighter]

 

I mean stock, and it doesn't change my comment at all. being stock doesn't mean optimized for the hardware, quite the opposite. just default drivers for everything, whereas Sony for exampl does a lot of optimization.

Well, you are wrong then... Stock Android only appears on Nexus and Moto devices (near stock experience) which are sold to the public and of course the drivers are "optimized" for their devices. You could make an argument Sony does a better job at it but that's it.

[spacer]

This is where hawkman does have a point, not all OEM have severly bloated and under optimized skings, examples point above, , HTC Sense,Sony LG UIX (or whatever its called and in that order), they have come a long way.

It's not simply a matter of UX, but updates as well. I personally really like the stock Android look-and-feel of the OS, especially with the new material design language they started using with Lollipop. I realize that the OEM skins have come a long way in terms of performance, but I've looked at them all and they still pale in comparison. (in my opinion) I just don't like the way they look. And they will always be behind in updates.

Motorola did it the correct way. They added almost nothing to the OS, except for a few custom apps and the notifications on the lock screen. And it's the only reason I'm even considering the Moto X phones. I wish more OEMs would take this approach.

[HawkMan]

 

Well, you are wrong then... Stock Android only appears on Nexus and Moto devices (near stock experience) which are sold to the public and of course the drivers are "optimized" for their devices. You could make an argument Sony does a better job at it but that's it.

No they use pretty basic drivers, nothing optimized about them, something evident by several things, the lackluster performance compared to devices with actual optimized drivers and kernels, and release speed. Sony isn't slow at releasing updates because they like it that way, they have the base code at the same time as Google, they're slower because they spend a lot longer making sure all the drivers and code are optimized for the hardware and not just. "hit compile with general works on everything settings".

In the past google has even commended Sony for this. when the Xperia S with the original software outperformed later generation top of the line samsung phones with the newer android version that also had significant performance upgrade. in fact when the Xperia S got the same upgrade due to the optimization sony had done, the performance increases in the OS didn't have as much effect on the Xperia S as it did on other phones as it already was working so fast it was hard to notice the OS level improvements. 

Google doesn't really care about optimizing for the nexus devices, they are primarily developer test bed phones for them. There's a reason they never have the best hardware, usually pretty ###### camera and all these, they are baseline. 

[HawkMan]

It's not simply a matter of UX, but updates as well. I personally really like the stock Android look-and-feel of the OS, especially with the new material design language they started using with Lollipop. I realize that the OEM skins have come a long way in terms of performance, but I've looked at them all and they still pale in comparison. (in my opinion) I just don't like the way they look. And they will always be behind in updates.

Motorola did it the correct way. They added almost nothing to the OS, except for a few custom apps and the notifications on the lock screen. And it's the only reason I'm even considering the Moto X phones. I wish more OEMs would take this approach.

What part of the Sony "skins" for example are not material. the only difference is they have different functions in the launcher, and they have the mini apps. just install the google launcher or any other launcher like everyone else and you can't really tell it's not stock. 

[oldtimefighter]

 

No they use pretty basic drivers, nothing optimized about them, something evident by several things, the lackluster performance compared to devices with actual optimized drivers and kernels, and release speed. Sony isn't slow at releasing updates because they like it that way, they have the base code at the same time as Google, they're slower because they spend a lot longer making sure all the drivers and code are optimized for the hardware and not just. "hit compile with general works on everything settings".

Google doesn't really care about optimizing for the nexus devices, they are primarily developer test bed phones for them. There's a reason they never have the best hardware, usually pretty ###### camera and all these, they are baseline. 

You can keep repeating yourself but you are still WRONG. Nexus phones are NOT primarily developer test bed phones. LOL They are regular devices sold at retail stores to the public. You can argue Sony does a better job at optimizing their phones then Google BUT that is not the same as Google does not optimize their drivers at all (which was your original comment) for Nexus devices.

Thanks for playing.

OP: Ignore this dude.

[HawkMan]

You can keep repeating yourself but you are still WRONG. Nexus phones are NOT primarily developer test bed phones. LOL They are regular devices sold at retail stores to the public. You can argue Sony does a better job at optimizing their phones then Google BUT that is not the same as Google does not optimize their drivers at all (which was your original comment) for Nexus devices.

Thanks for playing.

OP: Ignore this dude.

Well unlike you I actually have experience with multiple phones and facts about performance to back me up. instead of just screaming "you are WRONG!!!!!!" every time someone argues with you. 

[oldtimefighter]

Well unlike you I actually have experience with multiple phones and facts about performance to back me up. instead of just screaming "you are WRONG!!!!!!" every time someone argues with you. 

You have experience with multiple phones? LOL You mean like the majority of the people walking the earth? I thought you going to tell me were a software engineer at Sony and/or Google or something. Dude, you already displayed you don't even have basic knowledge on the subject by making statements like "...nexus devices, they are primarily developer test bed phones for them." You have backed nothing up...

I think you should stick with your gig at the Justice League as you do real good work there.

[Draconian Guppy]

Um... not to add to this discussion but:

 

The Android Dev Phone (ADP) is a SIM-unlocked and bootloader unlocked Android device that is designed for advanced developers. While developers can use regular consumer devices purchased at retail to test and use their apps, some developers may choose not to use a retail device, preferring an unlocked or no-contract device. The Google Nexus series has now taken the role of "development phones".^[1] The Galaxy Nexus is a SIM-unlocked^[5][6][7] and bootloader unlocked^{[8][9][10][11]} device that is designed for advanced developers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Dev_Phone

[HawkMan]

You have experience with multiple phones? LOL You mean like the majority of the people walking the earth? I thought you going to tell me were a software engineer at Sony and/or Google or something. Dude, you already displayed you don't even have basic knowledge on the subject by making statements like "...nexus devices, they are primarily developer test bed phones for them." You have backed nothing up...

I think you should stick with your gig at the Justice League as you do real good work there.

Still going for the ad hocs with nothing to back up yourself except "You're WRONG, and I'm RIGHT !!!!" I see... Quality arguments  insults is always the best way to prove your points, of which you have provided none.