Actual hardware requirements to get Windows 10 to run decent?

[adrynalyne]

18 minutes ago, chrisj1968 said:

well the article posted here at Neowin within the last week stated MSFT put out it will not support new hardware on Windows 7 and 8. So the push is to bring everyone to Windows 10. I'll keep my OEM windows 8.1 due to the drivers designed for my system and have a USB key with an esd to usb that rocks.

Microsoft has never retroactively supported new hardware features in legacy OSes. Nothing has changed. 

[Noir Angel]

On 24/01/2016 at 8:38 AM, Athlonite said:

Erm not quite the truth my friends wife's PC in an AMD Athlon64 x2 4800+ it runs windows 7 x64 perfectly fine try to install windows 10 x64 pro on it and you get the error msg "That it's not compatible with the CPU" nothing else said no other reason just that and nothing saying why it's not compatible 

Do they have NX disabled in their BIOS? That CPU should be compatible with Windows 10, hell I've gotten it to run on systems with single core Athlon 64 processors. Get your friend to check the computer's BIOS settings.

[binaryzero]

15 hours ago, chrisj1968 said:

with MSFT shutting down new hardware support for win 7 and 8, people in some cases will have to upgrade their desktop and laptops to updated.

All FUD.

[John.D]

I'm running Win10 on this, with nothing fancy, it's DDR2 not DDR3  - 8 GB. 2.8  CPU. Socket 775

 

Don't need an expensive videocard. I dont play games on it.  As long as I can see something I don't care what it is. The Geforce 210 works fine. And a 1 TB  hdd

 

It's fast enough.

 

The new build is faster. 3.1. Socket 1150. 250 GB SSD 64 bit, DVD. 8 GB DDR3

 

Thats it. Nothing else is in the case,  Using onboard video and that's connected to a 40' inch TV

 

 

 

[goretsky Supervisor]

Hello,

 

Except in Windows XP, which added USB 2.0 support (SP1), Bluetooth and DEP (SP2) and 802.11i WPA2 (KB893357).  I don't recall if FireWire was in the RTM build or was added at a later date, though.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 

 

On 1/26/2016 at 0:30 PM, adrynalyne said:

Microsoft has never retroactively supported new hardware features in legacy OSes. Nothing has changed. 

 

[binaryzero]

Hehhhhhhh, this thread is just stupid.

 

Minimum specs is your best bet. 

[adrynalyne]

9 hours ago, goretsky said:

Hello,

 

Except in Windows XP, which added USB 2.0 support (SP1), Bluetooth and DEP (SP2) and 802.11i WPA2 (KB893357).  I don't recall if FireWire was in the RTM build or was added at a later date, though.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 

 

 

You misunderstood what I said. Windows XP was not a legacy OS back then. It was the current MS OS. When I say legacy, I mean it was replaced by a newer OS. SP2 came out in 2004 and Vista not until 2007.

[PGHammer]

In fact, for all that recent hulabaloo about Windows Hello, that actually is an old enterprise feature that has migrated to the mainstream - old as in Windows XP-old.

 

How many of you remember Intel Centrino, and successor Intel vPro?  Both were about portable computing (laptops and notebooks), and specifically corporate-stable ENTERPRISE laptops and notebooks.

 

The big thing about both Centrino and vPro and the enterprise was (naturally) security (this was, in fact, simultaneous with Microsoft's own original security push, and with what became Windows XP Service Pack 2); the big add-on for laptops and notebooks was biometrics - fingerprint readers to you and me.  Business notebooks started including them, and you could get USB-plug add-on readers for existing hardware (from notebooks to desktops - in fact, you still can today).

 

USB-plug fingerprint readers fully-certified for Windows Hello are, in fact, all over the map price-wise merely on Amazon alone - from $116USD down to just $14USD.

 

Windows 7 - rather oddly - is the only Windows OS that does NOT support biometrics since XP.

 

If you have a webcam already, the fingerprint reader is - quite literally - the last piece of the Windows Hello puzzle you may be lacking.

 

In fact, here's the results of my quick-and-clean search for USB fingerprint readers on Amazon.com while I was typing this.

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0002WPSB2/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all&qid=1464208719&sr=8-10

 

I specified USB for ease of both device motility (moving between devices) and installation; naturally, I also narrowed the search to Windows Hello-certified devices..  Further, I also specified standalone readers (not peripherals that ALSO included fingerprint readers; that is why several Microsoft and Logitech desktop sets that include such readers are not in that list).  Even with all the narrowing, the remainder is still rather long - and as I stated, is all over the map merely in terms of price.

 

If it's good enough for the intelligence community (and the FBI) and it's not pricey, why isn't it good enough for you?

[goretsky Supervisor]

Hello,

 

Biometric scanning has been around for a while.  It certainly pre-dates Microsoft Windows.  And Microsoft Windows 7 introduced the Windows Biometric Framework (WBF or WinBio ) SDK, which replaced the previous technology used in Windows XP and Vista.¹  The interesting thing (to me) about Windows Hello is that it provides a secure store for the secret.  And Windows Hello isn't limited to use with biometric logins, either.  It also supports PINs and two-factor authorization devices like USB keys (2FA, Hypersecu, Yubico, etc.).

 

Microsoft does not offer separate Windows Hello certification for fingerprint readers.  A fingerprint reader just has to have a working (and WHQL'd) driver to work with WIndows Hello. 

 

The Microsoft Fingerprint Reader you linked to is an example of this:  It only shipped with 32-bit drivers for Windows XP and Windows Vista, and was discontinued by Microsoft shortly after the latter came out.   It turns out the device is just a re-badged DigitalPersona's UAreU fingerprint reader, and some enterprising individual has figured out how to hack the drivers and applications so they can work with 64-bit and newer versions of Windows.  If you are comfortable using software and drivers hacked by a third-party to authenticate access to your system you can certainly go for it, however, there are fingerprint readers which are currently available with Windows 10 support from Synaptics and probably other vendors as well.

 

Personally, I've been testing Windows Hello with a variety of fingerprint readers from UPEK (prior to their acquisition by Authentec) and Authentec (prior to their acquisition of UPEK and subsequently being acquired by Apple) and they work fine:  Windows 10's Device Manager simply downloads the required drivers when they are plugged in for the first time.

 

As for webcams, you can't just plug one in and have Windows Hello use it for facial recognition:  You need to use a camera module with 3-D capabilities, similar to the Microsoft Kinnect or ASUS Xtion Pro, with both an IR camera and laser sensor, in addition to the normal color camera.  Right now, the only external camera which meets this requirement is sold by Intel as part of the Intel RealSense SDK.  A few computer manufacturers have shipped systems with the camera embedded in them (ASUS, Dell, Lenovo, etc.), but they don't seem to be popular, possibly because of space or thermal or power requirements for the camera.  The unit in the SDK has a metal housing with cooling fins, although I haven't noticed it getting particularly warm during use.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

¹That I can't remember the name of.  Something GINA-based?

 

11 hours ago, PGHammer said:

In fact, for all that recent hulabaloo about Windows Hello, that actually is an old enterprise feature that has migrated to the mainstream - old as in Windows XP-old.

 

How many of you remember Intel Centrino, and successor Intel vPro?  Both were about portable computing (laptops and notebooks), and specifically corporate-stable ENTERPRISE laptops and notebooks.

 

The big thing about both Centrino and vPro and the enterprise was (naturally) security (this was, in fact, simultaneous with Microsoft's own original security push, and with what became Windows XP Service Pack 2); the big add-on for laptops and notebooks was biometrics - fingerprint readers to you and me.  Business notebooks started including them, and you could get USB-plug add-on readers for existing hardware (from notebooks to desktops - in fact, you still can today).

 

USB-plug fingerprint readers fully-certified for Windows Hello are, in fact, all over the map price-wise merely on Amazon alone - from $116USD down to just $14USD.

 

Windows 7 - rather oddly - is the only Windows OS that does NOT support biometrics since XP.

 

If you have a webcam already, the fingerprint reader is - quite literally - the last piece of the Windows Hello puzzle you may be lacking.

 

In fact, here's the results of my quick-and-clean search for USB fingerprint readers on Amazon.com while I was typing this.

 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002WPSB2/

 

I specified USB for ease of both device motility (moving between devices) and installation; naturally, I also narrowed the search to Windows Hello-certified devices..  Further, I also specified standalone readers (not peripherals that ALSO included fingerprint readers; that is why several Microsoft and Logitech desktop sets that include such readers are not in that list).  Even with all the narrowing, the remainder is still rather long - and as I stated, is all over the map merely in terms of price.

 

If it's good enough for the intelligence community (and the FBI) and it's not pricey, why isn't it good enough for you?

[Zaic]

Works sufficiently fine with an ancient netbook that came with 1st get (1,67ghz) atom cpu and 1gb ram

[helpifIcan]

Works well on my ASUS T100 with 2gig and Intel Atom Proc.

[Athlonite]

On 1/24/2016 at 2:19 AM, jjkusaf said:

Sorry, guess I should have said performance wise there really is no drop off going from 7 to 10...not necessarily hardware support.  Your wife's friend CPU lacks support for CMPXCHG16b instructions so it wouldn't run 64-bit 8x or 10 ... but it'll run the 32-bit versions.

Yeah I kinda gathered that it was an instruction based incompatibility the biggest problem is there's no choice given  when it wants to install as to whether or not it should be X86 or X64 I'll probably just download an x86 iso and install it from that 

On 1/24/2016 at 2:19 AM, jjkusaf said:

 

 

[Athlonite]

On 1/26/2016 at 9:35 AM, Javik said:

Do they have NX disabled in their BIOS? That CPU should be compatible with Windows 10, hell I've gotten it to run on systems with single core Athlon 64 processors. Get your friend to check the computer's BIOS settings.

NX bit is enabled in the BIOS, it's the CPU lacks support for CMPXCHG16b instructions

[Noir Angel]

Disappointing, those CPUs are more than capable of running the OS. I can't imagine 8TB of RAM being hit any time soon.

[Redeuxx]

I have an old Core 2 Duo with 4GB of RAM. It runs Windows 10. The user experience was unusable after any length of time. It went back to Windows 7.

[PGHammer]

On 5/26/2016 at 4:20 AM, goretsky said:

Hello,

 

Biometric scanning has been around for a while.  It certainly pre-dates Microsoft Windows.  And Microsoft Windows 7 introduced the Windows Biometric Framework (WBF or WinBio ) SDK, which replaced the previous technology used in Windows XP and Vista.¹  The interesting thing (to me) about Windows Hello is that it provides a secure store for the secret.  And Windows Hello isn't limited to use with biometric logins, either.  It also supports PINs and two-factor authorization devices like USB keys (2FA, Hypersecu, Yubico, etc.).

 

Microsoft does not offer separate Windows Hello certification for fingerprint readers.  A fingerprint reader just has to have a working (and WHQL'd) driver to work with WIndows Hello. 

 

The Microsoft Fingerprint Reader you linked to is an example of this:  It only shipped with 32-bit drivers for Windows XP and Windows Vista, and was discontinued by Microsoft shortly after the latter came out.   It turns out the device is just a re-badged DigitalPersona's UAreU fingerprint reader, and some enterprising individual has figured out how to hack the drivers and applications so they can work with 64-bit and newer versions of Windows.  If you are comfortable using software and drivers hacked by a third-party to authenticate access to your system you can certainly go for it, however, there are fingerprint readers which are currently available with Windows 10 support from Synaptics and probably other vendors as well.

 

Personally, I've been testing Windows Hello with a variety of fingerprint readers from UPEK (prior to their acquisition by Authentec) and Authentec (prior to their acquisition of UPEK and subsequently being acquired by Apple) and they work fine:  Windows 10's Device Manager simply downloads the required drivers when they are plugged in for the first time.

 

As for webcams, you can't just plug one in and have Windows Hello use it for facial recognition:  You need to use a camera module with 3-D capabilities, similar to the Microsoft Kinnect or ASUS Xtion Pro, with both an IR camera and laser sensor, in addition to the normal color camera.  Right now, the only external camera which meets this requirement is sold by Intel as part of the Intel RealSense SDK.  A few computer manufacturers have shipped systems with the camera embedded in them (ASUS, Dell, Lenovo, etc.), but they don't seem to be popular, possibly because of space or thermal or power requirements for the camera.  The unit in the SDK has a metal housing with cooling fins, although I haven't noticed it getting particularly warm during use.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

¹That I can't remember the name of.  Something GINA-based?

 

The camera that Intel includes with their RealSense SDK is, in fact, manufactured FOR Intel by Creative (yes - the SAME Creative of Sound Blaster fame/infamy; they are also in the webcam business as well); Creative has not released the camera itself for general sale.

 

However, that isn't why I brought up Windows Hello; the reason i brought it up is because I have found the oldest notebook (so far) to support it out of the box originally shipped with Windows XP.

 

NO; I'm not kidding - I wish I were; finding a new feature in XP-era hardware is not supposed to be even possible - and this particular notebook shipped with XP, remember?

 

While biometrics has been a security feature outside of computing for decades (the only reason I mentioned the intelligence community AND the FBI was due to running head-first into it in both places during the 1980s), it started showing up in computers later - and mostly with Microsoft's big security push with XP (Centrino was part of that in enterprises); no enterprise notebook (in fact, no portable computer at all) would have had a fancy webcam; that is why I think the REAL magic is being able to link a picture with biometrics (the webcam supplies the picture, while the biometrics side is linked to it - you really do need both for Windows Hello to work).

 

The fingerprint readers - all the hardware, and a lot of the back-end software; came from a single company that DOES provide such to the law-enforcement AND intelligence/military community - CrossMatch http://www.crossmatch.com -

CrossMatch provides ALL the ID scanner hardware that security, law enforcement, etc., uses for fingerprinting - naturally, they provide the back-end software behind it as well (on the enterprise/government side.)  The Microsoft-branded fingerprint reader you saw on that list - like ALL the other such hardware - was OEM'd by Crossmatch.  (Different OEMs, but one "master OEM" supplied all the hardware.)  Naturally, if said OEM's driver team knows their hardware well enough, writing supported drivers SHOULD be a cakewalk.  CrossMatch STILL makes fingerprint readers - and including for Microsoft; they also supply other companies - including other OEMs.

 

But finding the feature in XP-era hardware eliminates the CAMERA being the big driver behind WH - I have newer webcams than that that no OS later than 8.x supports at all (including a Creative Webcam Ultra NX that 8.x supports).