Her Father Shot Her in the Head, as an 'Honor Killing'

[Mockingbird]

WHETHER it wins or not, the Oscar nominee with the greatest impact — saving lives of perhaps thousands of girls — may be one you’ve never heard of.

 

It stars not Leonardo DiCaprio but a real-life 19-year-old Pakistani woman named Saba Qaiser. Her odyssey began when she fell in love against her family’s wishes and ran off to marry her boyfriend. Hours after the marriage, her father and uncle sweet-talked her into their car and took her to a spot along a riverbank to murder her for her defiance — an “honor killing.”

 

First they beat Saba, then her uncle held her as her own father pointed a pistol at her head and pulled the trigger. Blood spewed, Saba collapsed and her father and uncle packed her body into a large sack and threw it into the river to sink. They then drove away, thinking they had restored the family’s good name.

 

Incredibly, Saba was unconscious but alive. She had jerked her head as the gun went off, and the bullet tore through the left side of her face but didn’t kill her. The river water revived her, and she clawed her way out of the sack and crawled onto land. She staggered toward a gasoline station, and someone called for help.

 

About every 90 minutes, an honor killing unfolds somewhere in the world, usually in a Muslim country. Pakistan alone has more than 1,000 a year, and the killers often go unpunished.

 

Watching the documentary about Saba, “A Girl in the River: The Price of Forgiveness,” I kept thinking that just as in the 19th century the central moral challenge for the world was slavery, and in the 20th century it was totalitarianism, in this century the foremost moral issue is the abuse and oppression that is the lot of so many women and girls around the world.

 

I don’t know whether “A Girl in the River” will win an Oscar in its category, short subject documentary, but it is already making a difference. Citing the film, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif of Pakistan has promised to change the country’s laws so as to crack down on honor killings.

 

Saba’s story underscores how the existing law lets people literally get away with murder when honor is the excuse. After doctors saved Saba’s life — as police officers guarded the door so her father didn’t return to finish the job — she was determined to prosecute her father and uncle.

 

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/opinion/sunday/her-father-shot-her-in-the-head-as-an-honor-killing.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

[DocM]

Friggin' animals. Wastes of perfectly good skin. It should get donated somehow

[Unobscured Vision]

That emote gives me an idea. How about living target practice for real ninjas? 

[Jim K Global Moderator]

Though you cannot copy/paste the entire article for obvious reasons ... this part got to me (as well as the whole situation).

 

Quote

“After this incident, everyone says I am more respected,” her father boasted. “I can proudly say that for generations to come none of my descendants will ever think of doing what Saba did.” The families still live near each other, although the father insists he will not try again to kill Saba.

Friggen animals ... anyone who lives by this draconian rendition of Islam needs to be eradicated.  There isn't a place for them in the modern world.

[Ph1b3r0pt1c]

34 minutes ago, jjkusaf said:

Though you cannot copy/paste the entire article for obvious reasons ... this part got to me (as well as the whole situation).

 

Friggen animals ... anyone who lives by this draconian rendition of Islam needs to be eradicated.  There isn't a place for them in the modern world.

And sadly it keeps getting bigger, and bigger. (The 'religion')

[Tuskd]

It feels really disgusting and saddening that such a barbaric incident is still happening, but what's hurting me more is the 'dramatization' of the incident. You don't need to put dramatic words to express this horrible incident and portray it such, but sadly this is the only way to get attention of the mainstream media.

[+Red King Subscriber²]

Happens in the west nowadays as well. Muslim girl embraces western culture - father kills her for it.

[Ravensky]

######## animals let em kill each other...  They are a disgrace to the world with that kind of behavior.

[compl3x]

32 minutes ago, _Alexander said:

Happens in the west nowadays as well. Muslim girl embraces western culture - father kills her for it.

When it happens in the West the perpetrators are always Muslim. I know of very few instances worldwide where it is perpetrated by non-Muslims.

 

When you have a culture that absolutely fixates on controlling womens' lives and obsesses about modesty, virginity, and so-called purity you see stuff like beatings & "honor killings". "Honor killing", a true oxymoron if there ever was one.

[Jose_49]

"Neither culture is wrong"

 

...

 

I just don't understand them.... then.

[V9s]

3 hours ago, jjkusaf said:

Though you cannot copy/paste the entire article for obvious reasons ... this part got to me (as well as the whole situation).

 

Friggen animals ... anyone who lives by this draconian rendition of Islam needs to be eradicated.  There isn't a place for them in the modern world.

That's not an islamic practice, it's a cultural thing done by a few backward sub-ethnicities. You'll find honor killings happen among Sikhs and Hindus too.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

6 hours ago, V9s said:

That's not an islamic practice, it's a cultural thing done by a few backward sub-ethnicities. You'll find honor killings happen among Sikhs and Hindus too.

Sorry, hope I didn't offend you.  I didn't say it was necessarily an Islamic practice but twisted rendition of Islam.  However, it is worrying that some countries allow the murderers to go free if the families forgive the murderer.  These countries should change their laws...that (aside from the main article) is what stuck out at me.  Basically state-supported honor killings.

Quote

Perpetrators of honor killings often are not prosecuted because Pakistani law allows families of victims to forgive a killing.

 

[Mando]

Hold on a mo, just because this single instance was a Muslim girl/family, does not make it automatically about Islam.

 

We see enough of this horrible situations in other faiths too, honour killings happen in most faiths (including Christianity) Sihkism, Hinduism to name but 3. 

 

If we apply the same blinkered angle to other faiths, you'll find plenty of horrible stories. With the exception of Bhuddism i suspect  

 

regardless of religion or religious beliefs, its attempted murder, end of.

 

Sadly in some countries the family of the victim have the final say, whos to say thats wrong? Who are we to dictate what should and shouldn't happen in their country?

 

 Hell im sure plenty think the same about the west, with some nations abhorring the death penalty for any crime, yet others seem its necessary for certain crimes, im the former, i think the state killing criminals as "justice" is almost as bad tbh  2 wrongs dont make a right.

 

Im not having a pop, and I hope the documentary gets all the publicity and recognition it deserves.

 

While I personally I am an athiest (I have a scientific mind, show me proof a god/deity exists, or hard evidence, blind faith is neither) , this is not about an actual faith, just some idiots interpretation of a peaceful religion, its happened with every faith created since time began.

 

Adolf Hitler was a devout roman catholic (the Vatican even turned a blind eye to the persecution of the Jewish faith by his doctrine), does that make all Christians genocidal maniacs? ( a rhetorical question lol)

If we apply some of the replies to this Fact above, it suddenly becomes quite insulting to Christians I would imagine.

 

I believe strongly in treating others how I wish to be treated in return, and show respect to others beliefs and faiths, the basis of most religions , a guide or best practice way of living your life.

 

I have a lot of muslim, hindi and seikh friends, and what I do see, is their strong family values, sticking together and looking after each other, generally peaceful and open to other followers of alternate faiths.

 

For example there are no such things as retirement or old folks homes in other parts of the world, its a western christian thing. Most other faiths look after their elders with pride, the west?

We ship them off to waiting rooms for death, who are the civilised cultures then?

 

Something the west could learn from other faiths and civilisations.

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2016 by Mando

[SiCKX]

Some places are 1000 years behind culturally.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

39 minutes ago, Mando said:

Sadly in some countries the family of the victim have the final say, whos to say thats wrong? Who are we to dictate what should and shouldn't happen in their country?

I agree with your post ... except for this part.  This isn't the same as having to wear a hijab, not being able to drive, or other culturally/state acceptable behaviors/laws.  This is taking a life because the woman "dishonored" the family because she was either a) raped, b) talked to someone on Facebook, c) refused an arranged marriage, b) dressed in a way not approved by the family, e) <enter your own dishonoring actions here>.  This should be a punishable offense regardless of what religion/culture you subscribe to and the government should ensure that those who do these "honor" killings are held accountable.  

 

So...yes the countries (like Pakistan) that provide protection (or turn the other way) for these murderous "dishonor" people should change their laws and bring it to the modern century.

[Mando]

10 minutes ago, jjkusaf said:

I agree with your post ... except for this part.  This isn't the same as having to wear a hijab, not being able to drive, etc.  This is taking a life because the woman "dishonored" the family because she was either a) raped, b) talked to someone on Facebook, c) refused an arranged marriage, b) dressed in a way not approved by the family, e) <enter your own dishonoring actions here>

 

So...yes the countries (like Pakistan) that provide protection (or turn the other way) for these murderous "dishonor" people should change their laws and bring it to the modern century.

Same could be said about American states executing trialed criminals, for example the UK stopped this arcane and medieval practice in the 1950s (iirc) I personally abhor the idea, but again thats just what i personally feel, id not state it was wrong.

 

Who are we to say their ideals or laws are wrong?

 

Dont get me wrong buddy, I didn't say I agreed with it, but who are we to say their ideals are backward?

 

Thats a touch arrogant im afraid (im not saying for a minute you are :)) , but pushing our ideals onto others, hmm spin it 360 degrees, would you accept that? if another faith demanded they pushed their ideals onto us? We know the answer to that one

 

P.S. Im glad we are debating this in a civil and open way jj  pity the rest of the forums cant be this civil, is it me or is it getting worse?

[compl3x]

^ The moral relativism is strong with this one.

 

*barf*

[Mando]

1 minute ago, compl3x said:

^ The moral relativism is strong with this one.

 

*barf*

thanks for your contribution to the debate.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

2 minutes ago, Mando said:

Same could be said about American states executing trialed criminals, for example the UK stopped this arcane and medieval practice in the 1950s (iirc) 

 

Who are we to say their ideals or laws are wrong?

 

Dont get me wrong buddy, I didn't say I agreed with it, but who are we to say their ideals are backward?

 

Thats a touch arrogant im afraid (im not saying for a minute you are :)) , but pushing our ideals onto others, hmm spin it 360 degrees, would you accept that? if another faith demanded they pushed their ideals onto us? We know the answer to that one

Don't get me wrong ... I have my own stance on capital punishment ... but to equate it to "honor" killings isn't the same.  Last I checked (as an example) ... I couldn't go kill my divorced mother because she remarried someone I didn't approve of which brought dishonor to my name/family even if her family forgave me.  No...I would be locked away (or sentenced to death) for a long time.

 

This also isn't pushing ideas onto others.  I'm not sitting here saying that they should be changing their views or cultural beliefs on females (which is really backwards and can be another conversation piece).  However, killing another human being because of "honor" doesn't belong anywhere in this "modern" society....doesn't matter the culture or religious beliefs.  Yes...they are WRONG.

 

Question:  If a girl is killed in an honor killing because she was raped (which has happened) would you defend the parties/state because it was part of their culture?  Would you not agree that their punishment of the girl is "backwards" and isn't compatible with the decent rights all humans have (or should have)? 

[compl3x]

6 minutes ago, Mando said:

thanks for your contribution to the debate.

 

 

You're pretending we know so little about the human experience & how to successfully run a civilized society that is conducive to a positive, happy life..

 

By suggesting that a culture that butchers its own children and then, if they somehow miraculously survive, are pressured into dropping the charges against their would-be murderers shouldn't receive condemnation from any rational person in pursuit of some cultural sensitivity is preposterous.

 

Do you honestly not understand why a country with the rule of law which protects its citizens from this sort of barbarity is superior to one that doesn't? Do you think a society that condones violence, homicidal family violence, is a society which thinks long and hard about improving the lives of its citizens?

 

Yes, yes. I know, the West isn't perfect but it isn't approaching anything anywhere near this level of barbarity and religious zealotry.

[Gone]

More from the religion of "peace"!

 

These are the people Obama wants to give nukes to.

[FloatingFatMan]

6 hours ago, SpeedyTheSnail said:

More from the religion of "peace"!

 

These are the people Obama wants to give nukes to.

Pakistan already has nukes, you silly person.

 

Also, what?!

 

[szo]

The fact is this kind of honor killing thinking isn't limited only to uneducated villagers. I've met smart very educated engineers and doctors of certain areas from there who wholly admit that if their daughter brings dishonor, they will kill her. They support this idea, which is mostly a cultural thing and not related to religion. Some cultures are very tribal and strict about the whole honor thing and even anyone from there gets educated, they will still likely share the same cultural views no matter where they move to abroad.

[trag3dy]

7 hours ago, Mando said:

Same could be said about American states executing trialed criminals, for example the UK stopped this arcane and medieval practice in the 1950s (iirc) I personally abhor the idea, but again thats just what i personally feel, id not state it was wrong.

 

Who are we to say their ideals or laws are wrong?

 

Dont get me wrong buddy, I didn't say I agreed with it, but who are we to say their ideals are backward?

 

Thats a touch arrogant im afraid (im not saying for a minute you are :)) , but pushing our ideals onto others, hmm spin it 360 degrees, would you accept that? if another faith demanded they pushed their ideals onto us? We know the answer to that one

 

P.S. Im glad we are debating this in a civil and open way jj  pity the rest of the forums cant be this civil, is it me or is it getting worse?

Is this guy honestly comparing honor killings to executing tried and convicted criminals who are deemed too unsafe to live in society anymore?

 

Innocent women who are just trying to have a bit of control in their lives (or are victims of rape) being compared to people who rape, murder, and commit other atrocities?

 

That's pretty disgusting, really.

 

It is not pushing ideals onto others. In this case it's actually pretty black and white, right vs wrong.

 

Also major points off for trying to drag the US into the discussion which has literally nothing to do with the issue at hand. Honor killings are not and have never been condoned in the US unlike certain other places in the world that largely follows a specific religion.

[PGHammer]

8 hours ago, Mando said:

Hold on a mo, just because this single instance was a Muslim girl/family, does not make it automatically about Islam.

 

We see enough of this horrible situations in other faiths too, honour killings happen in most faiths (including Christianity) Sihkism, Hinduism to name but 3. 

 

If we apply the same blinkered angle to other faiths, you'll find plenty of horrible stories. With the exception of Bhuddism i suspect  

 

regardless of religion or religious beliefs, its attempted murder, end of.

 

Sadly in some countries the family of the victim have the final say, whos to say thats wrong? Who are we to dictate what should and shouldn't happen in their country?

 

 Hell im sure plenty think the same about the west, with some nations abhorring the death penalty for any crime, yet others seem its necessary for certain crimes, im the former, i think the state killing criminals as "justice" is almost as bad tbh  2 wrongs dont make a right.

 

Im not having a pop, and I hope the documentary gets all the publicity and recognition it deserves.

 

While I personally I am an athiest (I have a scientific mind, show me proof a god/deity exists, or hard evidence, blind faith is neither) , this is not about an actual faith, just some idiots interpretation of a peaceful religion, its happened with every faith created since time began.

 

Adolf Hitler was a devout roman catholic (the Vatican even turned a blind eye to the persecution of the Jewish faith by his doctrine), does that make all Christians genocidal maniacs? ( a rhetorical question lol)

If we apply some of the replies to this Fact above, it suddenly becomes quite insulting to Christians I would imagine.

 

I believe strongly in treating others how I wish to be treated in return, and show respect to others beliefs and faiths, the basis of most religions , a guide or best practice way of living your life.

 

I have a lot of muslim, hindi and seikh friends, and what I do see, is their strong family values, sticking together and looking after each other, generally peaceful and open to other followers of alternate faiths.

 

For example there are no such things as retirement or old folks homes in other parts of the world, its a western christian thing. Most other faiths look after their elders with pride, the west?

We ship them off to waiting rooms for death, who are the civilised cultures then?

 

Something the west could learn from other faiths and civilisations.

 

 

 

The practice of forgiving the perpetrator/blaming the victim IS universal - why ELSE do you think that capital punishment is itself under assault?

Before Maryland abolished capital punishment, the sentencing rates were studied statewide - in majority-minority counties and municipalities, capital punishment was seldom applied, regardless of the race of victim OR perpetrator.  (This is, oddly enough, due to such jurisdictions - minority-majority, that is, being more religious than non-minority-majority counties and jurisdictions - this is especially true comparing Baltimore city and Baltimore County.)