+Gary7 Subscriber² Posted May 21, 2016 Subscriber² Share Posted May 21, 2016 Smoke was found in both the cockpit and a rear restroom. No one at this point in time knows what started the smoke but many airline experts are leaning towards Jihad. Both The pilot and co pilot had a combined 6 thousand Flight miles logged and both have passed recent security checks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonalste Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 8 hours ago, Gary7 said: Smoke was found in both the cockpit and a rear restroom. No one at this point in time knows what started the smoke but many airline experts are leaning towards Jihad. Both The pilot and co pilot had a combined 6 thousand Flight miles logged and both have passed recent security checks. I take it you mean 6000 hours, rather than miles. That's not a huge amount to be honest. I have seen reports that there was a toilet smoke warning, but I haven't seen anything specifying the rear toilet. Can I ask for your source on that please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gary7 Subscriber² Posted May 21, 2016 Subscriber² Share Posted May 21, 2016 6 hours ago, bonalste said: I take it you mean 6000 hours, rather than miles. That's not a huge amount to be honest. I have seen reports that there was a toilet smoke warning, but I haven't seen anything specifying the rear toilet. Can I ask for your source on that please? Yes I meant hours--Source NTSB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonalste Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Gary7 said: Yes I meant hours--Source NTSB Care to elaborate on that source? A website or somesuch? I can't find anything through Google. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim K Global Moderator Posted May 21, 2016 Author Global Moderator Share Posted May 21, 2016 20 minutes ago, bonalste said: Care to elaborate on that source? A website or somesuch? I can't find anything through Google. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gary7 Subscriber² Posted May 21, 2016 Subscriber² Share Posted May 21, 2016 40 minutes ago, bonalste said: Care to elaborate on that source? A website or somesuch? I can't find anything through Google. Thanks. It was an NTSB representative that was interviewed on the news on TV. Would you like a picture of mu TV? Some of us still watch Television news. It took me about 30 seconds to find this, not the original but it is going to have to do. http://video.foxnews.com/v/4904649424001/data-indicates-smoke-inside-egyptair-plane-before-crash/?intcmp=hpbt2#sp=show-clips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonalste Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 3 hours ago, Gary7 said: It was an NTSB representative that was interviewed on the news on TV. Would you like a picture of mu TV? Some of us still watch Television news. It took me about 30 seconds to find this, not the original but it is going to have to do. http://video.foxnews.com/v/4904649424001/data-indicates-smoke-inside-egyptair-plane-before-crash/?intcmp=hpbt2#sp=show-clips There is nothing in that specifying the rear toilet. It is just you are the second person to state that it was the REAR toilet and yet all the information I can find, including the very ACARS messages they are referring to, state simply "SMOKE LAV SMOKE", without stating that it was the forward or rear toilet. If there was avionics smoke, it is more likely to have been the front toilet that had the smoke detector trigger, which is why you stating that it was the rear toilet seems to add another dimension as to what was going on. That would be suggestive of 2 separate fires being started almost simultaneously, rather than if it were the forward toilet it would make sense with just one fire. Which is why I ask where you got your information from. 3 hours ago, jjkusaf said: Thank you but my request for a source was for the position of the toilet in which the fire took place, not for their flying hour breakdown. Although it is interesting to note that your source is at odds with the previously stated comment that the TOTAL hours for BOTH crew was 6000 hours, and this states that just one of the pilots had more than that amount. That's a big difference. There seems to be a lot of misinformation going on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim K Global Moderator Posted May 21, 2016 Author Global Moderator Share Posted May 21, 2016 27 minutes ago, bonalste said: Thank you but my request for a source was for the position of the toilet in which the fire took place, not for their flying hour breakdown. Although it is interesting to note that your source is at odds with the previously stated comment that the TOTAL hours for BOTH crew was 6000 hours, and this states that just one of the pilots had more than that amount. That's a big difference. There seems to be a lot of misinformation going on here. Quote EgyptAir said on Thursday that the pilot had had 6,275 hours of flying experience, while the co-pilot had spent 2,766 hours in the air. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36339681 My original source was EgyptAir. Though I didn't feel the need to dig through their other tweets ... which I'm assuming would have shown the co-pilots hours. Anyway, We know nothing more than what you can find on the internet. The cause of the crash is all speculative until the investigation teams have determined the cause....obviously recovering the black boxes is crucial for them. Early information is also usually incorrect to some degree. May I suggest Google for latest updates and/or this: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36330879 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hum Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) Human remains suggest explosion The condition of human remains recovered from the crash site of EgyptAir Flight 804 suggests an explosion brought the plane down, a senior Egyptian forensic official told the Associated Press on Tuesday. The official, who spoke to AP on condition of anonymity, claimed to have personally examined the remains of some of the plane's 66 passengers and crew at a Cairo morgue. He said that all 80 pieces brought to Cairo so far are small and that "there isn't even a whole body part, like an arm or a head." http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/05/24/human-remains-suggest-explosion-brought-down-egyptair-plane-forensic-official-says.html?intcmp=hpbt1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim K Global Moderator Posted June 15, 2016 Author Global Moderator Share Posted June 15, 2016 The wreckage has been found. Hopefully they can quickly recover the black boxes to determine what brought the plane down. From the BBC Quote Wreckage of the EgyptAir flight that went missing over the Mediterranean last month has been found, Egyptian investigators say. A statement said "several main locations of the wreckage" had been identified. There were 66 people on board the Airbus A320 when it crashed on 19 May while flying from Paris to Cairo. It vanished from Greek and Egyptian radar screens, apparently without having sent a distress call. The Egyptian investigation committee said that investigators on board a search vessel in the area would now draw up a map of the wreckage distribution spots. The cause of the crash remains a mystery. Earlier this month, search teams said signals from one of the "black box" flight recorders had been detected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim K Global Moderator Posted June 17, 2016 Author Global Moderator Share Posted June 17, 2016 Both cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder have been recovered. Hopefully we'll know soon why the plane went down. Quote Searchers have recovered the flight data recorder from EgyptAir Flight 804, Egypt's Civil Aviation Accident Investigation Committee said Friday, potentially a key step in helping unravel the mystery of what caused the plane to plunge into the Mediterranean Sea nearly a month ago. The discovery of the recorder follows the discovery of wreckage from the flight and the recovery of the cockpit voice recorder this week, according to Egyptian officials. Like the cockpit voice recorder, the flight data recorder was damaged, but searchers were able to recover the crucial memory unit from the device, the committee said. The flight data recorder gathers 25 hours of technical data from the airplane's sensors, recording several thousand distinct pieces of information, including air speed, altitude, engine performance and wing positions. More at CNN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconian Guppy Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 7 minutes ago, jjkusaf said: Both cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder have been recovered. Hopefully we'll know soon why the plane went down. More at CNN isn't the black box supposed to be of very durable material? How does it get damaged? Victor Rambo 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Montage Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, Draconian Guppy said: isn't the black box supposed to be of very durable material? How does it get damaged? I'd suggest in an explosion at altitude, "durable" is relative. +Gary7 and Draconian Guppy 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim K Global Moderator Posted June 17, 2016 Author Global Moderator Share Posted June 17, 2016 20 minutes ago, Draconian Guppy said: isn't the black box supposed to be of very durable material? How does it get damaged? The box itself usually suffers some degree of damage (different than being destroyed) .... but as the article pointed out they "were able to recover the crucial memory unit". Little more info here regarding black boxes... http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/03/11/289189214/what-would-it-take-to-destroy-a-black-box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconian Guppy Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, jjkusaf said: The box itself usually suffers some degree of damage (different than being destroyed) .... but as the article pointed out "were able to recover the crucial memory unit". Little more info here regarding black boxes... http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/03/11/289189214/what-would-it-take-to-destroy-a-black-box yeah it's odd though, that in controversial cases, there is always damage to then (like 9-11) Victor Rambo and +Mirumir 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim K Global Moderator Posted June 17, 2016 Author Global Moderator Share Posted June 17, 2016 6 minutes ago, Draconian Guppy said: yeah it's odd though, that in controversial cases, there is always damage to then (like 9-11) Well ... not sure what you're getting at. There is always some damage to them ... I mean a plane was destroyed around it....be it by explosion, hard impact...etc. They don't come out unscathed. What is important is the data within ... which is usually salvageable. Draconian Guppy and +Mirumir 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skiver Veteran Posted June 17, 2016 Veteran Share Posted June 17, 2016 4 minutes ago, Draconian Guppy said: yeah it's odd though, that in controversial cases, there is always damage to then (like 9-11) Well you have to remember the circumstances in which any of these boxes need to be recovered. If a plane explodes in mid air and then falls 30K feet or is flown into a building at speed then of course there is going to be damage, they aren't ever going to be fully indestructible Draconian Guppy and Jim K 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconian Guppy Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, Skiver said: Well you have to remember the circumstances in which any of these boxes need to be recovered. If a plane explodes in mid air and then falls 30K feet or is flown into a building at speed then of course there is going to be damage, they aren't ever going to be fully indestructible 3 minutes ago, jjkusaf said: Well ... not sure what you're getting at. There is always some damage to them ... I mean a plane was destroyed around it....be it by explosion, hard impact...etc. They don't come out unscathed. What is important is the data within ... which is usually salvageable. Nothing really, my own ignorance of how blackboxes work I think, even thoughthe outer shell might be titanium or steel, the innards are pretty weak. I wonder why no significant improvement has been made to these in that sense. Victor Rambo 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skiver Veteran Posted June 17, 2016 Veteran Share Posted June 17, 2016 4 minutes ago, Draconian Guppy said: Nothing really, my own ignorance of how blackboxes work I think, even thoughthe outer shell might be titanium or steel, the innards are pretty weak. I wonder why no significant improvement has been made to these in that sense. I have no knowledge on how they are built etc so everything here is assumption but if you have something electronic housed in some for of protective box that is the subjected to extreme force (hitting a surface hard at speed) then however it's mounted in there is going take some battering so I think unfortunately the delicate nature of electronics is always to some degree going to take a hit. As it was pointed out above though, damaged does not been destroyed and it sounds like they can still get the data off so they should still be able to get a better idea of what went on in the final moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconian Guppy Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, Skiver said: I have no knowledge on how they are built etc so everything here is assumption but if you have something electronic housed in some for of protective box that is the subjected to extreme force (hitting a surface hard at speed) then however it's mounted in there is going take some battering so I think unfortunately the delicate nature of electronics is always to some degree going to take a hit. As it was pointed out above though, damaged does not been destroyed and it sounds like they can still get the data off so they should still be able to get a better idea of what went on in the final moments. from ze link above http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/03/11/289189214/what-would-it-take-to-destroy-a-black-box Quote To protect the stack of memory boards that store information, black boxes are wrapped in a thin layer of aluminum and a 1-inch layer of high-temperature insulation, and then encased in a corrosion-resistant stainless steel or titanium shell. The black box must be able to withstand an acceleration of 3,400 Gs (3,400 times the force of gravity), which equals an impact velocity of about 310 mph. It must also survive flames up to 2,000 degrees F for one hour, and the beacon should be able to emit a signal once per second while submersed in 20,000 feet of saltwater for 30 day But yeah, I just figure using SSD would solve the problem /ignorance Skiver and Victor Rambo 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim K Global Moderator Posted June 17, 2016 Author Global Moderator Share Posted June 17, 2016 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Draconian Guppy said: Nothing really, my own ignorance of how blackboxes work I think, even thoughthe outer shell might be titanium or steel, the innards are pretty weak. I wonder why no significant improvement has been made to these in that sense. You got it backwards. The outer component is "weak" whereas the the CSMU is the strongest/critical component...almost indestructible. Here is a quick and dirty video that may explain it better. https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/sep/05/black-box-plane-crash-malaysia-airlines-mh370-mh17-video-animation 12 minutes ago, Draconian Guppy said: But yeah, I just figure using SSD would solve the problem /ignorance Most black boxes use solid-state recorders now. Oddly enough, both recorders from Flight 77 (the plane that went into the Pentagon) were recovered ... but only one of them (the flight data recorder) was solid state ... and that was the only one they could pull data off of. The cockpit voice recorder was magnetic tape ... and it basically melted. Edit: You can also see just how much these black boxes can withstand by looking at this article regarding West Air Sweden Flight 294 that crashed in January of this year. Both the cockpit and data recorders were salvaged and gave important information to the inspectors...the plane was "pulverized" The Cockpit Voice Recorder case... The Cockpit Voice Recorder memory module (the important part) Edited June 17, 2016 by jjkusaf added recorder examples Draconian Guppy and +Mirumir 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mirumir Subscriber¹ Posted June 18, 2016 Subscriber¹ Share Posted June 18, 2016 23 hours ago, jjkusaf said: The outer component is "weak" whereas the the CSMU is the strongest/critical component...almost indestructible. The casing needs to absorb the energy so that the internal components are safe. Jim K 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Recorder shows smoke alarms in a toilet and the avionics bay. Soot and high temp damage in the forward section. https://www.google.com/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/36668910?client=ms-android-att-us# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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