Security & Neighborhood Theft

[BinaryData]

Recently, there has been a spike of crime in our neighborhood. The police informed us, and requested that anyone who see's suspicious activity to report it. Since I'm a bit more tech savvy than most of the elderly people in my neighborhood, I figured I would setup a security system. I started looking at Amazon, reading reviews, and what not. My neighbors lost over $20,000 in items. He builds custom guitars and bass guitars, they took his drums, amps, microphones, they took his entire shop, anything that would fit in the truck. They have a security camera pointed at the front door, which caught the side of the truck, and no faces. As I fill my house with nicer things, I'm getting a little worried about the security. My neighbors are associated with drug dealers (Known fact), my brothers former friend, bought coke off them. Needless to say, my neighborhood is going down hill.

 

To the point; What I want.

8+ Cameras (Covering House, Garage, and driveway.)

External Storage or backing up to a Network Storage (This is a must)

Night/Day Modes

 

I was looking at Amcrest, but they seemed to be limited storage, unless I could use a NAS Drive as a USB Expansion. If that's the case, I'm solid. (Surveillance Systems is what I was looking at). I just took a look at IP Cameras, those seem a BIT out of my skill range. But I would need to consult the pros on that.

[sc302 Veteran]

ispy  https://www.ispyconnect.com/

and any just about any ip camera. 

 

issues, need to make sure your hardware can support all the different camera feeds....10+ cameras you don't want an i3 or an i5 as a server and you probably want a dual processor.  if you plan on being able to watch on the server, you will want dual processors. 

 

there are a lot of factors that can increase or decrease cpu usage..number of cameras and quality of recording are the two biggest, if you are viewing cameras this can also play into cpu usage. 

 

You don't need high def to make out a person, high def will def chew up resources. 

[BinaryData]

I was thinking 720p would be the max I need. It still produces good quality images. I was going to have it run on an R610, which has dual 8 core processors, 32GB of RAM is what it's currently at. I was thinking toss two RAID1, Maybe RAID0, 120GB SSD.

 

Now, I'll look into it. Even has license plate reader too!

[sc302 Veteran]

720 still considered hd.  But suit yourself. 

[BinaryData]

Well, I want the best quality I can get but still reasonable, you know?

 

I guess I'll need to setup new vlans, and ACLs for this, eh?

[sc302 Veteran]

You need to be able to make someone out.  Do you think security systems are at 720?  It comes down to focal points not video quality. They didn't have hd 20 years ago,  how do you think they were able to make people out? 

 

You will figure it out yourself though. 

 

Just remember,  critical points of coverage, not necessarily the whole area.   Camera doesn't have to cover entire 10 acres of a back yard, just the area closest to the house or just entrances.   You just to need to make them out not see the pimples on their face. 

[BinaryData]

32 minutes ago, sc302 said:

You need to be able to make someone out.  Do you think security systems are at 720?  It comes down to focal points not video quality. They didn't have hd 20 years ago,  how do you think they were able to make people out? 

 

You will figure it out yourself though. 

No, but i figure the better the quality, the easier it would be if something did happen. I haven't fully decided where I'm going to place them either, kind of stuck on that.

[sc302 Veteran]

Like I said,  you will figure it out based on your equipment

[+BudMan MVC]

yeah I would put such equipment on its own vlan.

 

Unifi has some new camera's that should be available in next couple of weeks the uvc-g3 both a dome version and normal version.  Night vision with option for extended night vision range under $140 for the camera's.  You can run their software on your own hardware or have a plug and play nvr.

 

they do 1080p if you want that high.

 

What is your budget for the setup, how many cameras?  I would expect you would want the cameras to be poe, etc.  You want 8 camera's?  That seems a bit high to cover the needed areas.

[BinaryData]

46 minutes ago, BudMan said:

yeah I would put such equipment on its own vlan.

 

Unifi has some new camera's that should be available in next couple of weeks the uvc-g3 both a dome version and normal version.  Night vision with option for extended night vision range under $140 for the camera's.  You can run their software on your own hardware or have a plug and play nvr.

 

they do 1080p if you want that high.

 

What is your budget for the setup, how many cameras?  I would expect you would want the cameras to be poe, etc.  You want 8 camera's?  That seems a bit high to cover the needed areas.

Well, I was thinking poe, and matching the output of power they needed and grabbing a small 8 port Cisco POE switch, and running everything through that, as an option.

 

My property is pretty funky, it's like .45 acres, .5 if you count the rock walls. I'm trying to cover all the needed spots, 6 - 8 would cover everything I need. I'll create an image showing where I'd put them, where doors are, windows, etc. I'm not too worried about my middle yard (Between the house and garage), I'm more worried about the front yard/drive way, front door, and the garage entrances. Neighbors kids are getting into my stuff again. Used to keep a freezer full of food, and a fridge full of beer but someones already helped themselves to it. AND they managed to break my door.

 

Anyways, I'll upload that picture by tonight. As for a budget, I was thinking $700 or so for cameras, as sc302 said, I don't NEED HD, so something less than 720p or 720p would be acceptable. I'll have an R610 to host the recording software, or pick up an nvr, which ever you would suggest.

 

While doing this, I was also thinking about installing flood lights for my front yard and back yard. Motion activated ones.

 

So, total cost would roughly be $1,000. There's a few repairs I need to do before I install any cameras to the garage. Our electrical panel is from the 80s, and the wiring is BAD. I popped 4 breakers running 4 R610s. Found out the garage breaker is connected to my house breaker, so I'm diving 200 Amps of power between two buildings. Going to look into having 200 for each building.

[+Warwagon MVC]

15 hours ago, sc302 said:

ispy  https://www.ispyconnect.com/

and any just about any ip camera. 

 

issues, need to make sure your hardware can support all the different camera feeds....10+ cameras you don't want an i3 or an i5 as a server and you probably want a dual processor.  if you plan on being able to watch on the server, you will want dual processors. 

 

there are a lot of factors that can increase or decrease cpu usage..number of cameras and quality of recording are the two biggest, if you are viewing cameras this can also play into cpu usage. 

 

You don't need high def to make out a person, high def will def chew up resources. 

I tried that with my security camera and only used 3 camera with it and the CPU usage was atrocious.

[sc302 Veteran]

it really doesn't matter what the software is, hd + amount of cameras + viewing will eat up cpu cycles like you were playing skyrim on a 486.

 

 

I have about 40 cameras recording at the moment at work.  Dual processor E5-2670 2.5Ghz, when not viewing 25% cpu usage, 34.6Mbs, 2.4GB of memory usage.  Using about 7TB and keeping 90Days.  video at 800x600 4:3 apect ratio at 30 frames per second.  only records when it senses movement.  Does it look grainy, sure.... but I tell exactly who it is that is coming and going.  I can positively identify someone without question or guessing if that is them or not.....I could go lower quality....this is something you need to play with in your environment to see what works for you. 

 

[farmeunit]

Ubiquiti has some decent stuff.  They come with their own PoE adapters and are fairly easy to work with and good picture quality.  I haven't used them at night, much, though.

[+Warwagon MVC]

1 hour ago, sc302 said:

it really doesn't matter what the software is, hd + amount of cameras + viewing will eat up cpu cycles like you were playing skyrim on a 486.

True, but my hikvision camera recording software for 3 camera's 720p while viewing the all 3 live feeds is about 45-60% cpu. ... ispy with the same setup was 100% CPU

[+BudMan MVC]

Pretty sure the NVR which is nothing fancy can handle up to 50 cameras, suggested 20 so you can for sure view quite a few of them all at the same time live feed.  Its nothing as far as horse power only 4GB of ram..  You don't always need a rocket ship with the stuff is designed around doing what your wanting to do.

 

The video software of theirs has templates of live views that have up to 26 camera's..  So pretty sure the NVR can handle a few camera's all in live view, and its nothing to brag about, only 4GB of ram, etc..

 

You could do this on a real budget if you wanted with raspberry pis as your cameras, and sure some 3rd party software.  Or you can just buy some predone hardware and softare and plug in and start working with it.  $1000 would get you a NVR and 4 over of the new G3's and be under budget.  Or run their software on your own box and get 7 camera's..

 

[BinaryData]

47 minutes ago, BudMan said:

Pretty sure the NVR which is nothing fancy can handle up to 50 cameras, suggested 20 so you can for sure view quite a few of them all at the same time live feed.  Its nothing as far as horse power only 4GB of ram..  You don't always need a rocket ship with the stuff is designed around doing what your wanting to do.

 

The video software of theirs has templates of live views that have up to 26 camera's..  So pretty sure the NVR can handle a few camera's all in live view, and its nothing to brag about, only 4GB of ram, etc..

 

You could do this on a real budget if you wanted with raspberry pis as your cameras, and sure some 3rd party software.  Or you can just buy some predone hardware and softare and plug in and start working with it.  $1000 would get you a NVR and 4 over of the new G3's and be under budget.  Or run their software on your own box and get 7 camera's..

 

I think on this a lot before I purchase it. I've gotta think about camera placement, and then figure out the range from there. I think I can cover the garage spot and be OK, and well within the 100m Cat6 range. WiFi is an option, but I might not go that route, in terms of security, kinda makes go

[tonyjr]

There are guidelines and a lot of training material available from www.axis.com which will help you a lot. You will learn about the best placement, camera selection, lens and focal length selection, resolution and how to calculate the minimum required, correct sizing and choice of storage, power requirements and more. There is a lot of information, you may need to dig a little bit, but the Academy is a good start. If you dig a bit deeper, you will find material from courses they do too .

 

Hope that helps you out - I managed to start doing full installations from that material with some common sense taped on for good measure. It is updated regularly.

 

TonyJr

[+BudMan MVC]

while sure there is lots of info on that site for sure..  What products of theirs are in the home budget area?   Their stuff is pretty pricy, not saying its not worth it.  But with a 1k$ budget you don't get much going with axis, unless I am seeing crazy prices that are not current?

[BinaryData]

5 hours ago, BudMan said:

while sure there is lots of info on that site for sure..  What products of theirs are in the home budget area?   Their stuff is pretty pricy, not saying its not worth it.  But with a 1k$ budget you don't get much going with axis, unless I am seeing crazy prices that are not current?

I think he's saying to use it as a source of information. Use the information there, and apply it else where. I thought the same thing you did when I read it.

 

I was thinking about this while I mowed my yard. I think an 8 port POE Switch, with access to the storage server of mine would be plenty of space. The question is, can I set a specific storage location with the NVR? If I can, I may end up just building a NAS Box for Security recording, while temporarily using my storage box. 4 Bay with 3TB drives should suffice enough to record a weeks worth of data at 720p.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833420591

 

I'd like to keep this in a reasonable budget, as I have never done this sort of thing, I don't want to make too many expensive mistakes.

 

BudMan - Network wise, could I put the garage cameras on the garage Switch, and use the Ubiquiti POE devices, and just route them via the VLANs?

[+BudMan MVC]

"and just route them via the VLANs?"

 

Argggh -- dude see here is one of those statements that just shows your complete lack of understanding..  Vlans don't route..

 

Vlans are at what layer?  Routing happens at what layer?  Been over this and over this...

 

While the poe switch is nice if your camera's you get work with that poe that the switch supports.  Be careful with unifi, some of their stuff likes to use proprietary poe.  And you would need to use their switches.  But they come with power injectors so you don't need a poe switch.  It just makes it neater looking is all.

 

Yes the video software/nvr supports use of network drive space.. Be it windows share, iSCSI, etc. etc.

 

"4 Bay with 3TB drives should suffice enough to record a weeks worth of data at 720p."

 

How much video are planning on recording.. Are you going to record the grass growing?  The camera is not recording 24/7 - it records on motion..   Is there going to be constant motion?  The 500GB drive that comes with the nvr appliance says they can store 400 hours of 720p..

 

[BinaryData]

Sorry, I meant keep them together on 1 vlan, and not put them on a different one.

 

VLANs are Layer 3, Layer 2 can "support" them, but no communication between the vlans. Requires L3 or higher.

 

Hmm... Guess the NVR would suffice. If it's got a back up storage solution, then I can always add the storage server or buy a 3TB external for $150 or so. Easy solution, with no headaches for you or I.

 

The thing with motion activated, is that I'm a little worried about it being constantly on. My driveway is parallel with the street, as with my house. If I angle the cameras to get my driveway, it'll activate because a car goes by, if it's that sensitive. I guess what I need to do is buy a camera, and start playing with it.

[+BudMan MVC]

Even if car goes by, it records x seconds before motion and then x seconds after motion.  Pretty sure you can set motion area in field of view so even if motion on the edge of the video doesn't trigger recording it.

 

Yes that is how I would suggest you start - 1 camera and then just software on your PC or VM or spare box.  Don't plan on production setup until you have some experience with the software and the camera's.. Before you layout 1k you might want to make sure its going to do what you want, how you want, etc..  So sure get 1 camera and play with the software.  If it looks good, then maybe you just get the nvr appliance and some more camera's and your done.

 

"VLANs are Layer 3,"

 

You going to stick with that answer, you want to use a life line, call a friend - poll the audience?

[sc302 Veteran]

VLANS are layer 2....layer 3 incorporates routing.....

 

layer 3 is required somewhere to be able to route in between vlans......

 

 

VLANs exist on the data link layer (layer 2). 

Routing exists on the Network layer (layer 3)

[+BudMan MVC]

^ exactly, and my point was we have gone over that and over that with him in that PM thread that went on forever.  And multiple times stated got it, oh now its clear, yup makes sense now.. Yet still seems confused as to what happens at what layer.

 

If he wants to break it down more to fully understand do we need to bring up LLC and the MAC sub layers of layer 2?  should we discuss the headers that make up the frame at layer 2? Do we need to go into the differences between ISL and 802.1q or maybe we need to discuss QinQ?  I think talking about stacked 802.1q is just going to make it more confusing

 

So now that you have used your phone a friend help line BD, you ready for next question heheheeh

[xendrome]

Security dvr systems are great for going "oh yeah look there goes the guy with my stuff".

 

Honestly I'd start with a monitored cellular home security system, like SimpliSafe and add the dvr later, maybe add a nest cam and pay for the cloud recoding so they can't steal your dvr footage as well. You can have the nest cam alert you on movement as well.