artibatirae Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 I'm currently making nice, big icons for my game collection, and kinda started to wonder about Longhorn. Are there any finished LH icons yet? What's the maximum size for bitmaps? (128x128, or even larger?) What's the maximum overall size? (That you can set in Explorer...) What format will the icons be in? I've heard SVG, though that might be wrong... Any info at all would be highly appreciated, as I'd really like to try to make some LH icons. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsnotabigtruck Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 LH uses vector graphics, however I believe they are in some proprietary format, as Microsoft never really liked SVG. LH vector icon support isn't in the leaked/PDC builds. How come you want to make LH icons, LH won't be released for quite a while... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artibatirae Posted February 15, 2004 Author Share Posted February 15, 2004 I'm a sucker for new technology. Aren't we all? :D Thing is, so far, I've only made the regular 16-32-48 icons, but I haven't really tried making vector icons yet, and it would be nice to actually make them for something. I mean, I haven't got Linux, and Macs are too damn expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akaladis Veteran Posted February 15, 2004 Veteran Share Posted February 15, 2004 lol... you wanna be ready for the big day, huh? well we will prolly find out more about Longhorn's Icons as the OS comes along towards the final... I guess you will have the info you need when it enters Beta stage... /Raptor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artibatirae Posted February 15, 2004 Author Share Posted February 15, 2004 Yeah, I know... I'm a big-time sucker... :blush: But, for the moment, I'd like to know at least one thing, if possible... As far as I know, icon scaling is possible in the PDC build. What's the maximum size an icon can be scaled to, in pixels? :p (I know, I'm such a sucker...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y_notm Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 256x256. i believe the format is somewhere along the lines of a 32-bit bitmap/PNG, but proprietary. there's examples of the icons in the shell32.dll of 4051. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artibatirae Posted February 16, 2004 Author Share Posted February 16, 2004 Hmm, twice the size of OSX icons... Coincidence, I think not. (^_^) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfish Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 in the vector icon format, will bitmaps be able to be embedded in the vector drawings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artibatirae Posted February 17, 2004 Author Share Posted February 17, 2004 My guess is that it will be possible to do that. I somehow find it difficult to believe it would. Although something that worries me is the whole thing about 256x256x32 as maximum size... Ok, 128x128x32 is big too, but 256...? Takes up a whole lotta RAM if you're making a bitmap icon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y_notm Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 perhaps, but you will only need one icon size now, instead of 16x16, 24x24, 32x32, 48x48, 64x64... and I'd be less worried about icons eating up a few kilobytes of ram than the 300+MB combined that explorer and winfs gobble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poisonarrow Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 http://www2.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?library=2&SkinID=984 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForkliftDude Posted February 17, 2004 Share Posted February 17, 2004 the icons in longhorn will be 256x256 RGBA. there are no plans for vector icons, though they're discussing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsnotabigtruck Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Longhorn will use vector graphics. I believe you are confusing it with Mac OS X, which uses 128x128 PNGs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y_notm Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 no... i think forkliftdude is right on this one, because I've heard the same thing before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artibatirae Posted February 18, 2004 Author Share Posted February 18, 2004 y_notm, true, but the problem is that, well, a 128x128x32 doesn't take up too many KB's... But when it jumps up to 256x256x32, it suddenly becomes a whole lot space-demanding. I still feel worried... (^_^);; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 i thought Longhorn had plans of 256x256, and having some sort of new engine which improves the quality of the icon, even when it's resized to really big or really small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfish Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 why wouldnt there be vector icons, if the whole rendering system including for graphics like the solitaire cards will be vector based. just wondering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XP_01 Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 i thought Longhorn had plans of 256x256, and having some sort of new engine which improves the quality of the icon, even when it's resized to really big or really small. You mean the "same" way how OS X handles it's icons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 when you guys say vector based, does that mean every graphical element is drawn through code? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForkliftDude Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 yes, vector based as in a svg vector graphic and the like. but i've it directly from a msdev in the winfx groups, that vector icons are only being discussed. the plans are 256x256 RGBA bitmaps currently, without vector support. that might change _maybe_. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y_notm Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 why wouldnt there be vector icons, if the whole rendering system including for graphics like the solitaire cards will be vector based. just wondering who ever said the new presentation layer would be vector based? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForkliftDude Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 well, guess who then! hint: the same guys who actually write it. but anyway, just because avalon is majorly vector, nothing keeps you from using bitmaps all over the place. apparently MS went with bitmap icons because it allows better graphics. and frankly, some 3d-raytraced glass icon thingy looks way better than a similar vector icon using gradients. but yeah, i agree that they need to support vector icons afterall, even if they just render them once on load into 256x256 buffers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuka_t Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Windows Longhorn Build 4051 ReviewPart Three: Longhorn Presentation Technologies In previous Windows versions, a system library called Graphics Device Interface (GDI) was responsible for displaying all of elements of the graphical user interface (GDI), including windows, text, menus, icons, mouse cursors, and anything else you can think of, and interacted with video drivers and printer drives to provide output to the user. Windows 9x and Me utilized 16-bit and 32-bit GDI functionality, while NT-based Windows versions utilized a fully 32-bit GDI, but the concepts were the same: In all Windows versions, GDI supplied device-independent display capabilities that are based on raster graphics technology. Raster graphics, for the uninitiated, are bitmapped graphics, pixel-based arrays of bits with a direct relationship between the data and what's displayed onscreen. In Longhorn, a new presentation layer code-named Avalon is responsible for the entire user experience, including the display of graphics. Unlike GDI, Avalon is vector-based. Vector-based graphics are essentially mathematical descriptions, and they can be scaled in ways that are impossible with bitmapped-based raster graphics. To understand the difference, consider a typical icon in Windows XP: When created correctly, there will be handmade 16-, 32-, and 64-pixel versions of the icon available so that when the user switches between the various (limited) icon display modes (list view, details, icons, tiles, and thumbnails/large icons) it looks decent, but when you try to scale above the sizes specified by the system, things get ugly quickly. Figure: Small bitmmapped icons look horrible when stretched. With vector graphics, this isn't an issue. Today, Mac OS X is the only mainstream operating system that offers a somewhat vector-based user interface, and the quality of this system's icons benefit as a result. As shown below, a well-designed Mac OS X icon can be scaled extensively and retain its high-quality look. Like their Windows counterparts, Mac OS X icons are technically bitmaps, but they're created at a resolution of 128 x 128 pixels, and resized dynamically with vector transformations. That means they will look fantastic at the various sizes one might use on today's displays. Longhorn will utilize a similar graphics technology, albeit a more powerful one, to display icons and other system graphics as vectors, not bitmaps. That means that Longhorn icons will look fantastic at virtually any size, on today's displays and on tomorrow's high-DPI displays. Figure: Large bitmmapped icons look nice when resized dynamically with vector transformations. More important, perhaps, moving to vector graphics will enable Microsoft to achieve true display scaling in Longhorn, enabling a far more malleable interface than is capable today. The implications are exciting, especially for users with visual impairments, as all graphics, including text, will be almost infinitely scalable with no loss in display quality. Furthermore, because Longhorn will automatically take advantage of a new generation of high DPI displays, it will enable richer graphics displays in the same display area than is possible with today's monitors. In such a system, it will be possible to scale, say, icons independently from the other onscreen elements, virtually an impossibility in today's Windows. That said, the shell in Longhorn build 4051 doesn't expose any of the underlying vector technology that's already baked in, because Microsoft is still secretively working on the final Longhorn look and feel, code-named Aero. Instead, we're left with the "Slate" user interface, essentially an XP visual style that mimics the upcoming Aero look and feel but is bitmapped, not vector-based. There are hints of the vector display niceties to come--the slider-based Zoom control in Explorer windows (Figure), for example, but to see where Microsoft is going with its vector-based work, we currently need to write our own programs. In one example application I wrote, it's possible to see Longhorn's text scaling features at work, as you move a slider control to zoom the window's display area from 100 percent to 400 percent (Figure). Eventually, this capability will be available everywhere in the system. Expect to see Aero debut in Beta 2, due in early 2005. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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