Jessterw Posted March 4, 2002 Share Posted March 4, 2002 I picked No, however it really is not that simple. Personally I believe that abortion is murder, plain and simple. However I also believe that women should have the choice when it comes to the matter. I think we are too focused on the Yes and No part of this matter and less with presenting options. Instead of harassing women who may be leaning towards an abortion, maybe we should offer them solutions/options like adoption and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperHack Posted March 4, 2002 Share Posted March 4, 2002 I believe if there is a couple involved and something happens I think they have to take in each others considerations not just for a single person to choose. And if something happened to a woman where she was raped then I think its a totally understandable answer if she chooses to have a abortion. It all depends on the situtation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X-fibRe Posted March 4, 2002 Author Share Posted March 4, 2002 Originally posted by Vlad These kind of crappy polls need to be better regulated by the moderators. This sh*t just breeds flame wars and b*tching. Why dont you ask if breathing is a good thing or a bad thing? Save it for a speach and debate class. If you don't want to participate in this poll, don't ! But keep your opinion about if the poll is worthy or not for yourself. Apparantly it doesn't matter if you like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockcreek Posted March 4, 2002 Share Posted March 4, 2002 Originally posted by ventsi83 If you don't want to participate in this poll, don't ! But keep your opinion about if the poll is worthy or not for yourself. Apparantly it doesn't matter if you like it or not. This was a stupid poll! First off the question should have been pro choice or pro life. People that are for a woman's right to choose are "NOT" pro abortion. People don't just say.. ooooh an abortion, yeah.. let me have one of those! Are you: Pro Choice Pro Life No opinion would have been proper... That said it is a charged issue and it was destined to cause a flame war. Best kept off this forum in my opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YahoKa Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 A Fetus is not a person. They can't think or suffer and therefore its not unethical to abort them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Otto Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 sh|t yo, its a women's body, let her decide what da hell she wants to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyCanuck Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 It's a woman's body and no one, state or individual, has a right to force their values on a woman. As for the Canadian perspective, fortunately, the Supreme Court of Canada has sent a very clear message in ruling that a fetus is not a person and has no rights as such. The message? Should we in Canada ever be subjected to leadership by the wacko's currently known as the Alliance Party ... they can never implement a pro-life agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinrich-X Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 I'm f**king ****ed about all these ###### ass f**king hippy tree hugging goddamn no good liberals saying this is "morally" wrong and that is morally wrong, and always f**king with ours lives, taking away our freedoms, liberals=communists, fascists, nazis, anything evil. toss those a$$holes that threaten to murder abortion doctors in a huge f**king oven, let em burn [EDIT]If you didn't get the gist of my little speech, the bottom line is I'm for abortion[EDIT] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X E O N Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 i m for abortion THAT ALWAYS MY SECOND CHANCE...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X E O N Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 .....and third......lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postertoad Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Um ... Heinrich-X ... buddy ... it aint the Liberals trying to take away your freedoms. Thems trying to keep 'em [for the most part]. You wanna go pointing fingers - point em at the Religious Right. Jeesh, I dont blame ya for being mad .. but get your facts straight. ..........Oh yeah ... XEON , I'm sending you a box of condoms :D . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Veteran Posted March 5, 2002 Veteran Share Posted March 5, 2002 Abortion and Murder are two separate things(before a brain and heart develop the child is not clinically alive). Please make an informed quote next time. The truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devin2002 Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by adonai Please make an informed quote next time. The truth I was correct in my statement. abortiontv.com give me a break. I guess that website make you a doctor huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shafi Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by adonai Please make an informed quote next time. The truth Pretty sad to see dead babies. For those who support abortion, think about if your mother decided not produce you. There are many people have physical problem with a smart brain, talent , etc. The baby deserve a life no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosnhojm Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 i may be extreme in my opinion, but i know i am not alone. A fetus is alive, period..i dont care if YOU think its alive, cause its somewhat irrelevant. Its just a matter of you dont care about the fetus, it has no implications to you whether it dies or lives. I could easily feel the same way about any full grown individual, but i have some humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozart Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 YES, abortion should be legal. NO, I don't like the idea if abortion. In this day and age, it shouldn't be necessary (for the most part). Ever heard of rubbers? The Pill? 99% of people in the G8 countries over the age of 5 have. Those who say they didn't know what they were doing are liars. Should abortion be legal in the 9th month? The 8th? What is your reasoning? At the same time as I dislike (hate) the idea of abortion, I would not ban it. Most of the arguments posted here aren't very well thought out. Most are just "flames in the making" aimed towords anyone who dare disagree with them. One good point, if you use any common sense, you won't need an abortion! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arsekicker Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 A fetus is obviously alive. It is at the very least a collection of cells which are themselves alive. Whether or not that collection of cells, the fetus, has that essence (spirit, whatever) is of course debatable and will probably never be known. However, there is just as good a chance that the fetus is "alive" as it is just tissue. No one here can has the knowledge or facts to prove otherwise as it can't even be shown that this spirit or essence exists unequivocally within a walking/talking human being such as ourselves. If you want to gamble and choose to end what may or may not be a "life" that's your decision, but not a decision I would choose to make or would want to live with. If you can live with the fact that you may have killed someone you are a stronger person than I am. The death penalty (which is something else hotly debatable) is the result of a person's actions, more specifically the intentional taking of another person's life in most cases. That fetus, life, tissue, whatever you want to call it has not done anything to merit such a penalty. Regardless of what you believe the fetus to be it must be aknowledged when you abort it that you are at least taking away the possibility that it will ever be a life, in essence you have still taken a life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postertoad Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by adonai Please make an informed quote next time. The truth Yes, please do. Only one of the links on that page showed First TriMester photos. The others are all 2nd or 3rd and therefor only legal in cases of harm to the mother. That's blatant misinformation and scare tactic, which automatically discredits you and what you have to say. People who would have otherwise listened or perhaps even agreed with you will instead run ... fast. If your going to state your opinions, at least use credible arguments and not 'the moon is a hoax' falicies. Now, of that one page: "Do these aborted babies look like insignificant, undeveloped tissue? " Yes ... it very much looks like a mass of cells [snot actually, but I'm trying to stay within the boundries of good taste]. At that point in the process, the cow you had for dinner has more sentient life. Hell, so does the salad. At least the lettuce could sustain itself. [if anyone starts singing Tool now -- I slap you ;) ] The reality is ... there is no way to prove, one way or the other, if that mass of cells has a "soul", is "concious", can "suffer", or is in any way deserving of moral agent status. But for the sake of agrument [and only for the sake of agrument] lets say that lump of gunk is indeed alive. For this case I give you Judith Jarvis Thompson's ?violinist analogy.? [because its so well used and the most clear I have found] In this analogy she asks the reader to imagine you wake one morning and find yourself in bed with an unconscious violinist. He has been found to have a fatal kidney ailment, and you alone have the right blood type to save him. You have been kidnapped in the middle of the night, and the violinist?s circulatory system is now plugged into yours. The director of the Hospital is now telling you ?Sorry, the Society of Music Lovers did this to you ? we would never have permitted it if we had known.? To get unplugged from the violinist will kill him, but in nine months he will be totally recovered from his ailment and you can be safely unplugged from one another. Thompson then asks, ?Is it a moral responsibility for the kidnapped person to agree to this situation?? In my opinion ... no. :smart: :roll: :ponder: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyCanuck Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by adonai Please make an informed quote next time. The truth ... is a poor excuse for intellectual reason. That is an argument that cannot be sustained. Why do you think there is a distinction between abortion and late-term abortion? Because the debate is not about the fetus. The law (at least in most progressive countries) recognizes that a fetus is not a sentient being. That said, there is a point during the gestation period where it takes on the characteristics of a human and that abortion is no longer societally acceptable (and I take no issue with that). As before ... it is a woman's body. To paraphrase the late great Pierre Elliot Trudeau .... "the nation has no business in the bodies of its people." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arsekicker Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 [/b] But for the sake of agrument [and only for the sake of agrument] lets say that lump of gunk is indeed alive. For this case I give you Judith Jarvis Thompson's ?violinist analogy.? [because its so well used and the most clear I have found] In this analogy she asks the reader to imagine you wake one morning and find yourself in bed with an unconscious violinist. He has been found to have a fatal kidney ailment, and you alone have the right blood type to save him. You have been kidnapped in the middle of the night, and the violinist?s circulatory system is now plugged into yours. The director of the Hospital is now telling you ?Sorry, the Society of Music Lovers did this to you ? we would never have permitted it if we had known.? To get unplugged from the violinist will kill him, but in nine months he will be totally recovered from his ailment and you can be safely unplugged from one another. Thompson then asks, ?Is it a moral responsibility for the kidnapped person to agree to this situation?? In my opinion ... no. :smart: :roll: :ponder: [/b] The only problem w/ this is that in most cases other than rape the "kidnapped person" knew or should have known that their actions might have consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postertoad Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 The only problem w/ this is that in most cases other than rape the "kidnapped person" knew or should have known that their actions might have consequences. That is one of the criticisms. However, it depends on if one considers the use of birth control as a form of non-consent. Obviously if you are going out of your way to prevent pregnancy [short of abstinence] then you are not wanting or consenting to having a child. Works for me but I can see how for some it would appear to be a loophole in logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qumahlin Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 What I think is everyone should stop giving a damn about what other people do in their lives... My friend was 20 and his GF 19.. they were both in school full time and neither came from wealthy families...needless to say she got pregnant... the decision abort or not came up...at our local planned parenthood they went to go ask their options and what each involved..needless to say they picks a wednesday which seems to be Planned Parenthood protest day around here....well the protesters hounded them shouting not to abort and everything will be all right... Well they stopped...my friend asked who here is gonna give me the hundreds of thousands of dollars it is going to cost me and her to raise this baby and then even more to put it through college.... Well he sure as hell didn't hear anyone answer that call...none of those protestes who were telling them what to do wanted to take responsibility for that child...they weren't willing to work full time to support it... Needless to say my friend and his GF had the abortion and are still together to this day...happily I might add... Oh and on a side note...my friends abortion cost 800 dollars...300 for the abortion and about 500 for fines and court costs after one of the protesters accidentally ended up going for a ride on the hood of his car :) and thank god the judge was pro-choice...because he deemed the protester put themself in danger by standing in the middle of a street harassing people and suggested they find a new hobyy only 500 bucks to run over annoying protesters...I think thats fair? anyone wanna come for a ride with me this wednesday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postertoad Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 $500 ??? Hell yeah ... sign me up. I'll run over a fascist anyday.:evil: :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arsekicker Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Originally posted by postertoad That is one of the criticisms. However, it depends on if one considers the use of birth control as a form of non-consent. Obviously if you are going out of your way to prevent pregnancy [short of abstinence] then you are not wanting or consenting to having a child. Works for me but I can see how for some it would appear to be a loophole in logic. Notice I said "might", everyone also knows or should know that any form of protection is not 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted March 5, 2002 Share Posted March 5, 2002 Qumahlin, did you consider putting the child up for adoption? It seems to be an option many people overlook. But if you didn't like the idea of having your own "flesh and blood" walking around, I understand. Good job with protester. Too bad they don't have open season on protesters like that. It's f*cking amazing people are that stupid. Just a shame you can't put them down for good. And for those who would disagree - Protesting *peacefully* is one thing. Standing infront of f*cking cars is quite another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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