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#12571 episode

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 18:49

While I've seen the writing on the wall for years now, it still saddens me to see the game slump so much. They never really recovered from their strategy change in Wrath.

 

The game itself isn't really 'slumping'. Peoples tastes have changed, people have grown up, etc. Its hard to bring in new gamers to WoW - thats the main problem.




#12572 +Bryan R.

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 18:59

The game itself isn't really 'slumping'. Peoples tastes have changed, people have grown up, etc. Its hard to bring in new gamers to WoW - thats the main problem.

The postmortem of Blizzard's decisions has been had many times here so I probably won't go over it too much more. People's tastes have changes, sure, but I believe this change has a direct correlation with society in general becoming too consumer oriented and wanting instant gratification. What I find interesting in this slump in subscriptions is it almost signifies that society actually does realize rampant consumerism and instant gratification really does decay the sport of the game and, symmetrically, I believe society secretly knows that these superficial desires are ultimately futile and it's still the challenge of it all that can keep us interested. Well, I would like to think society knows this but, who really knows themselves as well as they should?



#12573 episode

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 19:16

The postmortem of Blizzard's decisions has been had many times here so I probably won't go over it too much more. People's tastes have changes, sure, but I believe this change has a direct correlation with society in general becoming too consumer oriented and wanting instant gratification. What I find interesting in this slump in subscriptions is it almost signifies that society actually does realize rampant consumerism and instant gratification really does decay the sport of the game and, symmetrically, I believe society secretly knows that these superficial desires are ultimately futile and it's still the challenge of it all that can keep us interested. Well, I would like to think society knows this but, who really knows themselves as well as they should?

 

Oh god. This is a game. Its not a statement on society. People are still playing games. Nearly 8 million people still play WoW. Just not as many as once did. Thats all. Relax.



#12574 +Bryan R.

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 19:30

Oh god. This is a game. Its not a statement on society. People are still playing games. Nearly 8 million people still play WoW. Just not as many as once did. Thats all. Relax.

I beg to differ. I don't think it's mere coincidence that Wrath brought heavy consumerist ideals and the games subscriptions flourished then to only see what the game became - a demoralizing community. This was acknowledged as a growing problem and a slight reversal was taken in Cataclysm. It wasn't enough and the damage is done. Now, the passion is gone (my opinion).



#12575 firey

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 19:33

In my opinion.. they tried to cater to the 12 year olds.  I miss when having good gear, being able to buy things off the AH without having to worry about gold, and having a title made you something special. 

I miss TBC days when progression existed.. and you had to work hard for what you had.. nothing was just given to you.



#12576 episode

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 20:13

I beg to differ. I don't think it's mere coincidence that Wrath brought heavy consumerist ideals and the games subscriptions flourished then to only see what the game became - a demoralizing community. This was acknowledged as a growing problem and a slight reversal was taken in Cataclysm. It wasn't enough and the damage is done. Now, the passion is gone (my opinion).

I hate to do this, but care to list a few that were created during Wrath and have since been removed?



#12577 +Bryan R.

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 20:26

I hate to do this, but care to list a few that were created during Wrath and have since been removed?

You're really stretching my ability to remember specifics but one of the biggest changes was how incredibly easy they made heroic dungeons in Wrath. Going from perhaps hours in a dungeon to 15 minutes and from using strategy and skill to just tanking every mob at the end was just disheartening.



#12578 episode

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 20:35

You're really stretching my ability to remember specifics but one of the biggest changes was how incredibly easy they made heroic dungeons in Wrath. Going from perhaps hours in a dungeon to 15 minutes and from using strategy and skill to just tanking every mob at the end was just disheartening.

 

Happened in BC too. Hard at beginning, easy at the end. Also, spending 'hours' clearing a single 5 man is hardly a great use of time.



#12579 Lord Method Man

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 20:39

Heroics are intended to be pre-raid difficulty, and they were. Even the "easy" WotLK heroics were tough if you were in dungeon blues and Badge of Justice pieces. As people got to farming Raid content and geared up they continued to do heroics for their daily badges and they were suddenly too easy.

 

Then Cataclysm came out and people threw a fit because the heroics were supposedly way too hard. You just cant please anyone, ever.



#12580 +Bryan R.

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 20:40

Happened in BC too. Hard at beginning, easy at the end. Also, spending 'hours' clearing a single 5 man is hardly a great use of time.

At the end of BC, certain heroic that were meant to be hard, stayed hard. Shattered Halls, Shadow Labs. Perhaps when the very last patch came out when all bosses had their health cut by 30% was it easier but the trash alone was the hard part. Crowd control is a lost art because of it. We now have players who know nothing about contributing all they can to the group and simply know "pew pew" or to stand and take hits without having to care about threat. It all stems from the same ideals of instant gratification. Blizzard wanted more subscriptions and they got them.



#12581 +Bryan R.

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 20:41

Heroics are intended to be pre-raid difficulty, and they were. Even the "easy" WotLK heroics were tough if you were in dungeon blues and Badge of Justice pieces. As people got to farming Raid content and geared up they continued to do heroics for their daily badges and they were suddenly too easy.

 

Then Cataclysm came out and people threw a fit because the heroics were supposedly way too hard. You just cant please anyone, ever.

Wrath heroics and even Naxx was able to be done with previous expansion gear. That is where the line should be drawn for unacceptable ease.



#12582 Shadrack

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 21:05

Heroics are intended to be pre-raid difficulty, and they were. Even the "easy" WotLK heroics were tough if you were in dungeon blues and Badge of Justice pieces. As people got to farming Raid content and geared up they continued to do heroics for their daily badges and they were suddenly too easy.

 

Then Cataclysm came out and people threw a fit because the heroics were supposedly way too hard. You just cant please anyone, ever.

 

This is so true.  For Cataclysm on my Warlock I was having a hell of a time getting through the heroics when it first came out.  My damage output just wasn't there, despite having as good as I could get gear from the normal dungeons.  I loved the challenge!  I just wish I had 4 awesome friends to play through the challenges with me but everyone was burnt out on WoW by that point.  So the groups I was in was either full of dumbasses who were doing much worse than me, or ###### doing much better than me and kicking me out of the group.  Ended up taking a break for a few months, and when I came back the game was so nerfed and easy that THAT wasn't fun anymore either.

 

I loved Burning Crusade and WotLK, but I think a lot of that had to do with the number of friends I knew that were all playing during that time.



#12583 Shadrack

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 21:06

Wrath heroics and even Naxx was able to be done with previous expansion gear. That is where the line should be drawn for unacceptable ease.

 

Not with the crappy Karazhan gear that I had :p

 

Naxx was trivial but Ulduar was pretty challenging IMO.  It all came down to how good the other players around you were.  I got involved in a "hard core" rading guilds in WotLK and it just took way too much of my time, left me stressed, and left me feeling like WoW was a second job.  It was fun, but not rewarding enough for the amount of time.

 

Then switch to "club" guilds and everything is virtually impossible because even though the vast majority are good players, there are a handful of "people's friends" who want to play and are just terrible.

 

The last couple of times I jumped into WoW for a month, about all that I did was PvP because it was the funnest thing that I could advance in by myself.



#12584 Lord Method Man

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 21:08

Wrath heroics and even Naxx was able to be done with previous expansion gear. That is where the line should be drawn for unacceptable ease.

 

And that was to alleviate the complaints over the situation with BC where people replaced every piece of their hard earned Vanilla raid gear with Hellfire Penninsula quest rewards within the first 2 hours of being there.



#12585 +Bryan R.

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 21:17

And that was to alleviate the complaints over the situation with BC where people replaced every piece of their hard earned Vanilla raid gear with Hellfire Penninsula quest rewards within the first 2 hours of being there.

There will always be a balancing act but these complaints were always pretty silly. With each expansion, mobs had different scales of health and damage. After BC, Blizzard wanted to resolve some of the chance involved of getting one shot or two shot within .2 seconds. To combat this, Blizzard increased the health pools and thus, also the overall damage output of mobs. I forgot all the math behind being two and three levels behind and how hit affects your dps to the target and also the target's ability to hit you more effectively. How anyone expects to hold gear from a previous expansion is beyond me.

 

Additionally, gear that you had which was tailored for your build and class stats could change in a new expansion. It would be foolish to keep gear out of nostalgia that wasn't optimal gear for you after balance changes (see huge changes to Paladins).