Some inetresting thoughts about religion

[waurbind]

I was doing some thinking today and suddenly i was struck with a thought: I am and athiest. I sometimes laugh at my christian and muslim friends for living their lives the way they do. Then i realised that the morals taught by religion make a better society, they are not that hard to follow, simple things, like don't steal and don't kill. if everyone in the world was religious then the world would be a much better place. the problem come from different religions. Different stories coming from different books teaching the same lessons. I think its sad how much fighting their is over religion when it was only invented to keep peace. no matter how you say them lessons like "don't steal" and "don't kill" still mean the same thing. if these lessons are to be taught to different people by different stories so be it. the most popular religions in the world all preach roughly the same thing. unfortuntley there are stories in these religions that turn them against each other. things saying "this is the right religion, there is no other" were just meant to protect the population from cults or religions that preached violence. these religions were all created by different people as a way to keep the world at peace, since the writers of the koran and the bible would never have been able to communicat they did not know anyone was attempting the same thing as them and thus included the "this is the right religion...." remarks. now people are at war in countries because of thing

then i thought about death. how religion provides answers to questions. i used to think that that they were all lies (and to be honest, i still do) but for those that belive them they are truth, and they die KNOWING what will happen to them. whether it happens of not does not matter, for after that they are dead. if they reach a better place then there is something i dont know. but even if they don't they will have lead a good life and died knowing they will be rewarded. if they are not the dead will not mind that they have not been rewarded as promised.

Disclamer: the above are just my ramblings. i thought it might be an interesting point of view. it is not meant to offend anyone and i am not on any side in this issue (i personaly belive that time is a loop and that evenetually in our own destructino we create ourselves.)

ps: i know the spelling and grammar is off but i would appreciate if the grammar nazis would leave.

[lav-chan]

It would not be a better or worse place if 'everyone in the world was religious'. You can be a perfectly wonderful example of a fine human being and still be atheist, and you can be an absolutely horrible corrupt animal and still be religious. Most people are inclined to choose the parts of their religion that they like best. You can still be a very religious Christian and support gay marriage, for example, and you can still be a very religious Muslim and suicide-bomb people.

Religion gives people an excuse to do things, but i think at this point in our development we can function without it. Not to say necessarily that we should (if you want to be religious, that's awesome, who am i to say that you shouldn't), but if it came down to it i think we could.

[waurbind]

It would not be a better or worse place if 'everyone in the world was religious'. You can be a perfectly wonderful example of a fine human being and still be atheist, and you can be an absolutely horrible corrupt animal and still be religious. Most people are inclined to choose the parts of their religion that they like best. You can still be a very religious Christian and support gay marriage, for example, and you can still be a very religious Muslim and suicide-bomb people.

Religion gives people an excuse to do things, but i think at this point in our development we can function without it. Not to say necessarily that we should (if you want to be religious, that's awesome, who am i to say that you shouldn't), but if it came down to it i think we could.

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i was just thinking that if everyone was kind and there was no killing or stealing it would be a better place... wait i see what you mean, i meant if everyone was stricltley religious, as in everyone obeyed aspect of what their religion was (except fot the once true religion part) and of course we the world could survive without religion. there is no doubt about that but think of it as a luxury: you could survive without your computer or mp3 player or whatever you use and enjoy on a daily basis, but would you be better off doing so

[lav-chan]

It's up to interpretation, but if everybody obeyed every aspect of their religion, the world would be a horrible place. The Bible and Qur'an say all kinds of stuff about how we should stone people left and right for EVERYTHING. I don't think there'd be anybody left after a while.

[waurbind]

hmm.... i see your point. their would need to be some kind of modern religion that applied to todays world. i have a task! :p jkjk oh well. you knwo as well as i do that the world will never get better and we'll be lucky if we can just slow down its getting worse.

[Septimius]

i was just thinking that if everyone was kind and there was no killing or stealing it would be a better place... wait i see what you mean, i meant if everyone was stricltley religious, as in everyone obeyed aspect of what their religion was (except fot the once true religion part) and of course we the world could survive without religion. there is no doubt about that but think of it as a luxury: you could survive without your computer or mp3 player or whatever you use and enjoy on a daily basis, but would you be better off doing so

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If what I'm getting from what you're saying is correct, you applaud the fact that most "mainstream" (excluding radical Islamic Fundamentalism and the like) impose moral duties upon those persons that follow them? Such as refraining from killing/stealing?

If we assume that religious values are the only way in which you can obtain a "moral compass" (if you will) this would be correct. It goes without saying though, that many non-religious people are moral and follow many of the same codes of conduct without submitting to any particular religious authority. It remains to be seen if these people constitute the minority of "non-religious" persons.

If this is so, then I would agree with your asessment, though I doubt there's really any way to measure it.

[SaLiVa]

It would not be a better or worse place if 'everyone in the world was religious'. You can be a perfectly wonderful example of a fine human being and still be atheist, and you can be an absolutely horrible corrupt animal and still be religious. Most people are inclined to choose the parts of their religion that they like best. You can still be a very religious Christian and support gay marriage, for example, and you can still be a very religious Muslim and suicide-bomb people.

Religion gives people an excuse to do things, but i think at this point in our development we can function without it. Not to say necessarily that we should (if you want to be religious, that's awesome, who am i to say that you shouldn't), but if it came down to it i think we could.

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That's a pessimistic way of seeing religion... There's still the positive side to it, but I guess you, including myself and many other people like to see the negative side of things. Criticism is brought to a whole new meaning, and people aren't afraid to use it now that reality TV shows love to use it as a tool to sell.

If everyone was religious, they'd be following proper rules that are sociably acceptable (Due to the heavy discipline involved in Religious activities) The world would be much slower and there will be less killings. That of course is if there was only one religion in this world, dare I say Queen - One Vision? The world we live in right now cannot accept that and people have broader more understanding views of the world but now ponder more about what will happen after they die - The world after. Some people might not care - but in their death bed, there will be some light of faith shining upon him - Whether it be God, nature, or some sort of balance - He will most probably be looking for some assurance that he'd live on someplace else. [unless he's killed instantly].

Peaceful religions that I know of are non existant, every one of them has had their share of war or some sort of corruption. It's men that control religion and so long as that remains things will never change. If religion controls you, we'll just have to hope its for the better and not for the worse :p

Edit: Also religion back in their prime time were the only things that made humans different from animals. Many religious books still use animals as Metaphors and comparisons, saying that the human has a mind of its own and doesn't live on instinct. If we all lived on instinct and no logical thinking, not only will we be killing each other but we'd be killing ourselves.

[lav-chan]

That's a pessimistic way of seeing religion... There's still the positive side to it, but I guess you, including myself and many other people like to see the negative side of things. Criticism is brought to a whole new meaning, and people aren't afraid to use it now that reality TV shows love to use it as a tool to sell.

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I don't know what you're talking about. How is being able to function without religion 'pessimistic'?

[SaLiVa]

I don't know what you're talking about. How is being able to function without religion 'pessimistic'?

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I was refering to the stand you've taken towards the subject in question. It's negative. Maybe I used the wrong word there...

"That's a negative way of seeing religion..." - There fixed... A bit cliche, unless you have a better word :)

[lav-chan]

I still don't get what you mean. I don't understand how me thinking that society can function without religion is negative in any way. That's like saying that the assertion that society can function without macaroni is a negative way of seeing macaroni.

All i meant was that religious teachings have played their part in shaping how we as a society behave and view things, but now that we're mature enough in our development and we've got our society all laid out and everything, i think that things could still run smoothly if all the churches and Bibles and Qur'ans just disappeared one day. I'm not saying that religion is worthless, just that we don't necessarily need it.

[j.nudd]

If all the religions and bibles and Qur'rans disappeared, many people would lose their sense of life.

[SaLiVa]

I still don't get what you mean. I don't understand how me thinking that society can function without religion is negative in any way. That's like saying that the assertion that society can function without macaroni is a negative way of seeing macaroni.

All i meant was that religious teachings have played their part in shaping how we as a society behave and view things, but now that we're mature enough in our development and we've got our society all laid out and everything, i think that things could still run smoothly if all the churches and Bibles and Qur'ans just disappeared one day. I'm not saying that religion is worthless, just that we don't necessarily need it.

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No, I was quoting what you were saying. And I thought it was a negative way of thinking about it. There's always two sides to everything, so maybe you should try look on the bright side. Either way its still your own opinion and I'd like to hear more of the positive opinions of it. If you think society can live without religion, then it's fine by me. I respect your stand and I dont necessarily share it.

I dont share it because religion still has its values, it might be old but the Bible, Torah and Quran all have important teachings in life. Same goes for every good religion in the world. Buddhism emphasises on balance for example, many of the things lost in that religion alone can still be of good use to us as human beings. Kung Fu as a martial arts for example has its own beliefs, many of which benefit the warriors. Once the warriors give up their beliefs, and everyone in the entire world drops their beliefs, we will have chaos. Imagine a world full of clones, full of nuclear warfare, no "unreligious" person would stand against it as many religious (Pope) idols do right now. Also if many people just drop their religion, they are losing a piece of history, a piece of lifestyle, their identity in most cases. Not every country wants freedom, some just want peace and so far religion has done a good job in bringing it to them. There's still a way to bring peace of mind.

To phase it out is also just as equally dangerous, it might take longer before chaos breaks out but Im sure no one will be willing to live as robots.

[gazebee_]

If all the religions and bibles and Qur'rans disappeared, many people would lose their sense of life.

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including me. I see it this way: i believe in what the Bible says, every single word; even if it wasnt true, which for not even a moment do i believe, i will still die happy :)

[dreamz Veteran]

I sometimes laugh at my christian and muslim friends for living their lives the way they do.

that's not very nice.

Then i realised that the morals taught by religion make a better society, they are not that hard to follow, simple things, like don't steal and don't kill. if everyone in the world was religious then the world would be a much better place.

1. you act like all moral principles taught by religion are good. not all moral principles in religion are good, and if they are good, are only contingently good. they need not have been that way.

2. you act like all moral principles are only taught by religion, but there are moral principles that can exist without religious doctrines. one need not be religious in order to understand "do not kill."

if you're concerned only with the precepts of not killing, we don't need religion at all. we only need moral codes to which people are compelled to adhere. this means 1) an attractive moral system, or 2) saintly people, neither of which is true.

the problem come from different religions.

there can be different stories. there are two problems. 1) people think their story is right. 2) people want everyone to know their story is right.

then i thought about death. how religion provides answers to questions. i used to think that that they were all lies (and to be honest, i still do) but for those that belive them they are truth, and they die KNOWING what will happen to them. whether it happens of not does not matter, for after that they are dead. if they reach a better place then there is something i dont know. but even if they don't they will have lead a good life and died knowing they will be rewarded. if they are not the dead will not mind that they have not been rewarded as promised.

they do not know what will happen, in the technical sense of the word. to know that p means that p. in other words, knowing p implies p. of course, if p isn't implied, then we do not know p.

in another sense, religion gives people a sense of life. who am i to argue with that? but personally, i don't need it. i can create my own values (ubermensch anyone?).

you make it seem like religion is a crutch, a tool, used to fund understanding, which, in one sense, is true, but this is only because people have an innate need for understanding.

including me. I see it this way: i believe in what the Bible says, every single word; even if it wasnt true, which for not even a moment do i believe, i will still die happy :)

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that's a little confusing. it's like saying the ultimate justification is that we can die happy.

[vincent]

I don't know what you're talking about. How is being able to function without religion 'pessimistic'?

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I agree with you. Good will towards others can be taught to another (as in one's children) with out the belief in a religion.

[lav-chan]

I dont share it because religion still has its values, it might be old but the Bible, Torah and Quran all have important teachings in life. Same goes for every good religion in the world. Buddhism emphasises on balance for example, many of the things lost in that religion alone can still be of good use to us as human beings. Kung Fu as a martial arts for example has its own beliefs, many of which benefit the warriors. Once the warriors give up their beliefs, and everyone in the entire world drops their beliefs, we will have chaos. Imagine a world full of clones, full of nuclear warfare, no "unreligious" person would stand against it as many religious (Pope) idols do right now. Also if many people just drop their religion, they are losing a piece of history, a piece of lifestyle, their identity in most cases. Not every country wants freedom, some just want peace and so far religion has done a good job in bringing it to them. There's still a way to bring peace of mind.

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It kinda sounds like you're the one being negative now. That's sorta offensive to non-religious people, don't you think? To suggest that without religion everybody just turns into a bunch of baby-killing bomb-dropping psychos is kind of a lame thing to say. I, for one, am agnostic, and i don't support abortion or human cloning or nuclear war. If every religion in the world disappeared tomorrow, nothing about me would change. I don't use a book or some tax-empt organisation as my justification to believe the things i do.

And i think that goes for everybody else, too. When you hear about Christians becoming disillusioned with the church, all they do is just leave it. That's it. Their beliefs don't change, they just stop being part of the church. They don't start building nuclear bombs and raping dogs. They function perfectly fine without an 'idol', because they had most of those beliefs anyway. And i think most of the sane religious people in the world would do exactly the same thing.

[cchasem]

I think everyone should be the same religion. The religion's main rules should be "Be kind and respectful to others, and have respect for yourself and the environment" if THAT was all that religion was, and everyone on earth followed it completely...then the world would be better! i think..

[dreamz Veteran]

I think everyone should be the same religion. The religion's main rules should be "Be kind and respectful to others, and have respect for yourself and the environment" if THAT was all that religion was, and everyone on earth followed it completely...then the world would be better!  i think..

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equality and civility does not come from conformity.

what you want are good people, not necessarily a single religion.

[R-Flex]

It kinda sounds like you're the one being negative now. That's sorta offensive to non-religious people, don't you think? To suggest that without religion everybody just turns into a bunch of baby-killing bomb-dropping psychos is kind of a lame thing to say. I, for one, am agnostic, and i don't support abortion or human cloning or nuclear war. If every religion in the world disappeared tomorrow, nothing about me would change. I don't use a book or some tax-empt organisation as my justification to believe the things i do.

And i think that goes for everybody else, too. When you hear about Christians becoming disillusioned with the church, all they do is just leave it. That's it. Their beliefs don't change, they just stop being part of the church. They don't start building nuclear bombs and raping dogs. They function perfectly fine without an 'idol', because they had most of those beliefs anyway. And i think most of the sane religious people in the world would do exactly the same thing.

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Exactly. I can look at my personal experiences. I am atheist, and 95% of my friends and family are too. I suppose I do not live in a very religious community, but despite this lack of religious guidance, no one that I associate with has any "baby-killing bomb-dropping psycho" tendancies. All are upstanding citizens, regardless of religious beliefs.

Perhaps in the past, religion was used to control and civilize the hordes, but today, it is no longer needed as a moral control. Instead, religions are now organizations dedicated to influencing the agendas of nations to their own beliefs.

[Boffa Jones Veteran]

Perhaps in the past, religion was used to control and civilize the hordes, but today, it is no longer needed as a moral control. Instead, religions are now organizations dedicated to influencing the agendas of nations to their own beliefs.

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Wait a second... So what has changed in your view? Religions are good for people who actually try to follow them. Spirituality is not a bad thing.

[lav-chan]

Well... one thing that has changed is that we're all more respectful about each other's religions. In the past, laws would be based entirely on religion, and there wasn't even discussion. Now, when we write laws (unless you live in the Middle-East, i guess...), we try to write them based on reasoning and logic.

That's only one small example, but it reflects a bigger change. If religion just disappeared one day in the 1700s, people probably wouldn't know what to do. It would be like suddenly all these barbarians were mixing with the civilised people, and it would be anarchy. If religion disappeared today, it would be a lot easier for us to handle, because a lot more of our beliefs are based on reasoning and tolerance rather than 'it says so in a book'.