Blair on Parenting

[Mx]

axious that post was inspiring and I am still like wow you shared that with us. I can see how your sons "mates" have influenced him and you and your ex have only done the best for him. Very sad, I hope he is alright and sorts out what is going on.

[Stonkwell Bogtrotter]

axious that post was inspiring and I am still like wow you shared that with us. I can see how your sons "mates" have influenced him and you and your ex have only done the best for him. Very sad, I hope he is alright and sorts out what is going on.

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Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to "blame" his mates or pass the buck here. When they are all together they are idiots. Yet when they are all apart, they are probably charming kids.

Thankyou for your thoughts.

I hope that he will come through this. As it stands, I beleive him when he says he didn't do it. Only time will tell if we find out who did.

[stanneh]

I heave read this thread with interest, and found it disturbing how many people are taking the "Daily Mail" line by simply saying "let's blame the parents".

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theres many unknown reasons trying to catagorise them is useless i see your situation and i have seen it before many times just like your example the best pareants in the world cant keep a kid out of trouble.

all this statement from the mirror seems to be doing is pushing our thinking away from blaming scociety for whats going on and blaming pareants.

im sure that would be easier for tony blair to deal with.

[Dick Montage]

If I were PM:

1) Bring back the cane, but monitor it's use. Remember it was under a Lab govt that it was removed from schools! Kids need to learn respect, and they seem unable to do this without the need for some kind of fear of recrimination.

2) Earn your benefits. You must do community work to earn the govenmental benefits.

3) No benefits for kids. Hard one this but: If you are on benefits, you are basically saying "I cannot afford to look after myself". So what right have you to get pregnant with a child?

4) Benefits given in the form of stamps, exchangable for specifed goods and services. Not cigarettes.

5) National Service. We all do one year's service after school. Not necessarily military, as this goes against some beliefs - but could be cleaning grafitti, mowing public lawns, etc. This should be paid, again in the above stamps. This then stops the stigma that these stamps are just for the poor!

6) Scrap ASBOs, they are nothing more than a slap on the wrist. Punish with more community service time (unpaid), solves 2 problems: Punishes the yobs and get's them off the streets.

The money that would innevitably be saved via less benefit fraud would be put towards better public transport, making access to work easier. Eventually the need for high-street policing would drop a small amount, making more funds for larger policing units.

This may sound totalitarian, but that's me!

[theyarecomingforyou]

Parents are to blame... many argue that they cannot control their children and that it is not their fault but the truth is that most of the morality and reasoning of a child is developed in their early years, even before the age of 5. I love seeing parents complain that they can't control what they're 13yr+ son is doing and saying that they have no control - of course parents have no control, the child has already created their morality from the teaching of their parents.

However, a lot of the problem here is the government. Tony Blair has created a government with few morals and has set a bad tone for the country - all you see is sleaze and corruption, teachers losing their powers, police being overwhelmed, a prison service that cannot cope, judges that go softly on drug addicts, etc. It is hard for parents to teach respect when the people running the country are so incompetent and corrupt.

I am fed up of Tony Blair... he doesn't do anything for the good of the country but for how it will appear in the history books. All his "historic" speaches (with lovely pauses that make it easy to soundbite), his alliance with Bush, his complete insincerity. :no:

[Stonkwell Bogtrotter]

Parents are to blame... many argue that they cannot control their children and that it is not their fault but the truth is that most of the morality and reasoning of a child is developed in their early years, even before the age of 5. I love seeing parents complain that they can't control what they're 13yr+ son is doing and saying that they have no control - of course parents have no control, the child has already created their morality from the teaching of their parents.

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Please go an read my post again. I gave and still do give my Son love, care, attention, guidance and taught him to be polite, careing, sharing thoughtful, yet he has chosen to do what he does.

Could you possibly explain to me, how parents can be watching thier children 24/7?

It can't be done. It just cannot be done.

Kids know that society lets them get away with alot more now than when, say I was a kid.

When I was a kid, there were more coppers on the street, dicipline at school, parents were'nt being hounded by these do gooders who keep thrwoing the Human Rights act in their faces.

Society has alot to be blamed for the way (some) parents are. Society has alot to be blamed for the way kids are reacting. Kids are treated as "little adults" nowadays by society, because of the do gooders, and they are not little adults. They are children and as such should obey rules and regualtions that are given to them

Yes my lad does obey them...when he is with me or his Mum, but when he is out, he chooses to "act up" to be "one of the gang". And I physically cannot be watching over him all the time.

Or do you propose I quit my job to keep an eye out 24/7? Perhaps if I did that, then I could watch him all the time.

Oh, but then woudln't I be called a scrounging ****** then? Hmmm.

You need to realise, parenting is hard. Parenting involves alot, and despite the fact that no matter how much you teach your child good from bad, sometimes, even good kids go bad.

Look at Tony Blairs kid!

Please, please go and read my post again. Take it in, and realise, I am not a bad parent, my Son deep down is not a bad kid, and I am not a dole hopper sponging off the state and teeling my kid to "feck off out and dont come back" like some parents do.

I think you can see how much this is breaking my heart. I have opened my heart out in that post, and you can see that I mean what I say.

Don't tar everyone with the same brush....please.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

You guys sure like to beat up on people. Surely you must know of good people who have horrible rebellious children. In fact, your parents may feel that way about you!  :o

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There are a lot of good people that end up raising "horrible rebellious children". I think a lot of these people do need parental training.

There are a lot of bad parents out there. Ones that either don't disclipline and others that use too much disclipline. Yes, parenting is difficult but parents should be given the tools required to do it.

I wouldn't be against mandatory parenting classes for high school courses. At least that might help the next generation.

[FlibbyFlobby]

Apparently theres another incident involving Blair Junior, which Blair has paid the media not to publish.

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I think this is the story the media were surpressing, apparently Bliars daughter tried to commit suicide, good parenting indeed. :wacko:

[LK.]

I agree to a degree..but not all "kids" can be controlled..they're not all as small as their parents by the time they're in the late teens or respect them like they should..hence the police and other authorities get involved

It's easy to play the armchair politician like Blair and the rest..but it's hard for some parents, sometimes they simply can't control their kids, and trouble starts by other means :wacko:

[Fighter-X]

I heave read this thread with interest, and found it disturbing how many people are taking the "Daily Mail" line by simply saying "let's blame the parents".

You seem to automatically think that it is dole hoppers, chavs and spongers who just have this problem.

Well, let me tell you my story.

I am a 41 year old Father of 1 14 year old son. I'm divorced from his Mum, and have been since he was 10 months old. But, I have always had weekly contact with him. Week in, week out. Without fail. I have always been there for him. That is my duty as a Father.

I learned how to become not only a Father to him, but a Daddy too. It was hard, it was slow and there were laughs and tears along the way.

I taught my Son, respect, love, how to share how to be polite and how to be good. And he was all of that.

He lived with his Mum, she re-married, and they have another kid, but I was always there for my little boy.

About 3 years ago, we started receiving complaints from his school about his behaviour. He was acting up in class, trying to be the "class clown". We went to meetings at the school (me & his Mum), and our son assured us he would be good.

Time went on, and we kept getting complaints from the school. Now whilst this was happening, 90% of the time, he was good with his Mum, and good when he was with me. But things were getting worse at school.

His Mum & I would drop things at work, and go to the meetings at his school, time & time again. He was by now being suspened for disruption in class. But still we went to the meetings to try to help him.

We kept telling him that if he carried on, he would eventually be thrown out of school. Well, that day finally came earlier this year arund March/April, and we were gutted.

I was angry, sad, confused but most of all, it was MY lad, My Son, my flesh and blood going through this.

We got him into a "re-intergration" school, to at least keep up his education, and he has done quite well there, but we are still trying to get him into a mainstrweam school. As of yet, it is no go.

About 2 months ago, the Police turned up at his Mums door, saying he had been accused of assaulting a kid. (Hitting him). We both went to the Police station, his Mum cried, I wanted to cry, and we sat there in the interview, thorugh the humiliation of watching him have his photo, finger prints and dna taken. He receive an formal reprimand. ( A caution). But this mena he now has a criminal record.....at 14 years old.

I came home that night and I cried.

Then the bombshell happend on Tuesday this week.

I was at work, and received a phone call from his Mum, asking me to come immediatly to her house, as our Son had been arrested on suspicion of arson.

My heart felt like it had just been torn from my body.

I got there and saw two CID (plain clothes police), and they told me my Son was at the Police station.

His Mum and I both immdeiatly went down there and we were allowed to see our Son. He was in a police cell, and he looked scared. Damn scared. His Mum was crying, but I had to keep it together for all our sakes...especially my Son.

We asked him, what happend, why he thought they had him in there etc, and he kept denying that he did it. Was was originally arrested for a 2nd fire out of 2, but was eliminated for that one. He then became suspent for the first one that happen 2 days earlier.

All we know is he is a suspect, he is on police bail at the moment and has to reappear at the police station in October. They have no evidence, only circumstantial )sp) evidence.

He is currently quaking in his shoes. And so am I.

Now, you may read all that and think, what an absolute ###### that kid is. But I see him, I know he is stupid, I know he should have been better, and I know when he is on his own, he is a charming, kind, thoughtful young lad. The type of kid who would goto the shop, buy a bottle of pepsi for himslef, and bring one back for you, even if you never asked for one.

I see people in this thread saying it is the parents fault. When you have a 124 year old lad, and you both work, (becuse society dictates you have to), how can we be monitoring what our child is doing all the time? 

It is physically impossible when both parents are working.

No parent can honestly say they know exactly what thier Son or Daughter is doing when they are out with thier friends. No parents can say they know.

We bought our child up, with love, care and attention. He is bright, pleasent and a very likable lad. But when he is with his mates, it seems to be a case of when they are in a gang, they are idiots who dont think. I know he was with his mates when the fire happend, so somewhere, something is linking them possibly.

I know one thing, he doesn't want to hang with them anymore, (which is good), cus they turned on his as soon as look at him. Which is exactly what I said would happen if they were in trouble.

I am sitting here typing these words, and I am struggling to see what I am typing, because I am crying. Right now, there are tears streaming down my face. My heart hurts and yearsn for the lad I knew before. That young chap staring at me from all those photos on the wall. That beautiful smile, that twinkle in his eye.

I am crying for my Son. My beautiful, beautiful child, whom I love with all my heart, my soul and my body and my life. He is me. He is my body, he is my soul, and he is my life. We are one in the same. I created him out of love. And it is breaking my heart to see him like this.

But I feel am losing him. No matter how hard I try. I feel I am losing him.

And I am watching him fade way. I try to hold onto hm, but he chooses to go the way he wants. He comes to a cross roads, and chooses which road to take, and I can advise him to choose the right road, yet only he can choose to wether accept that advice, and take it on board with him through the journey that is life.

I know it is very easy for everyone to blame the parents when kids go astray, but remember, not all parents....are bad parents....and despite what you may think....deep down, not all kids are bad. They just go astray and need a bit of help to get back on the rails, and I will do my upmost to steer him back, no matter how hard it may be.

Thankyou for reading.

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Very Inspiring. Im srry what has happened in the past. Peers have the MOST influence on a child. My dad keeps calling me to check on things and stuff, when hes working. Hopefully everyone who is reading this will do the same.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

This deals with a government policy issue and thus should be moved to RWI

[Thread Moved from NFN to RWI]

[dreamz Veteran]

There are a lot of good people that end up raising "horrible rebellious children".  I think a lot of these people do need parental training.

there are lots of great parents who raise unruly children. why should they be responsible? they did the best they could.

There are a lot of bad parents out there.  Ones that either don't disclipline and others that use too much disclipline.  Yes, parenting is difficult but parents should be given the tools required to do it.

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true, but we can't force people to take courses.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

there are lots of great parents who raise unruly children.  why should they be responsible?  they did the best they could.

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Parents are legally responsible for their children. They did the best they could with the knowledge that they had. Give them more knowledge and they will hopefully do a better job.

true, but we can't force people to take courses.

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Why not? If you get in a car accident then you are forced to (re)take a driving course (in many places although not around here).

[PR.]

Surely every child is born like a blank piece of paper (not including children with disorders) and so from birth everything they become and learn they take from their parents, their ethics and morals are all founded on the information you as a parent have provided them either from things you have taught them or things they have learnt from your actions.

I was at school I had peer pressure to bully, smoke, drink, take drugs and steal but I never did it, all because my morals and conscience put them as things that are wrong and not because I might get arrested or hit.

My opinion is that young unruly kids 0-10 should have their parents put under intensive parenting classes on how to deal with their kids. Older children should be sent to national service style camps where they are broken down by 'drill sergeants' and built back up again as someone useful to society. Limits on child support money should be introduced limiting to only the first x number of children.

As for saying "oh well Tony Blair is a crap parent" that doesn't mean that you shouldn't listen to what he is saying.

[FlibbyFlobby]

Surely every child is born like a blank piece of paper (not including children with disorders) and so from birth everything they become and learn they take from their parents, their ethics and morals are all founded on the information you as a parent have provided them either from things you have taught them or things they have learnt from your actions.

I was at school I had peer pressure to bully, smoke, drink, take drugs and steal but I never did it, all because my morals and conscience put them as things that are wrong and not because I might get arrested or hit.

My opinion is that young unruly kids 0-10 should have their parents put under intensive parenting classes on how to deal with their kids. Older children should be sent to national service style camps where they are broken down by 'drill sergeants' and built back up again as someone useful to society. Limits on child support money should be introduced limiting to only the first x number of children.

As for saying "oh well Tony Blair is a crap parent" that doesn't mean that you shouldn't listen to what he is saying.

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Morals and ethics also come from society, and British societies morals are

dropping by the day. Criminals are treated like victims, and victims like criminals. also this compensation culture isnt helping either, I think these have a serious impact, making children feel not to blame for their own mistakes. I think you need strong parents to explain actual morals to children.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

Surely every child is born like a blank piece of paper (not including children with disorders) and so from birth everything they become and learn they take from their parents, their ethics and morals are all founded on the information you as a parent have provided them either from things you have taught them or things they have learnt from your actions.

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I do not agree with the blank piece of paper analogy. The same parents can have wildly different children even though their parenting styles may be been exactly the same.

It is a variety of factors including genetics, parenting, roll models, society/television, schooling and peers that affect the personality of a child. Some children are hard to screw up while others can be difficult to keep on the straight and narrow path.

[dreamz Veteran]

Parents are legally responsible for their children.  They did the best they could with the knowledge that they had.  Give them more knowledge and they will hopefully do a better job.

they may already be great parents and no amount of training will help their children.

we can't put all the blame on the parents when the kids are at least partially responsible.

Why not?  If you get in a car accident then you are forced to (re)take a driving course (in many places although not around here).

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that doesn't happen here (at least not that often). besides, there are situations in which parents are not responsible for a child's behavior.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

they may already be great parents and no amount of training will help their children.

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Chances are, though, that if a child is caught stealing or assulting another child then the parent could use a refresher course.

besides, there are situations in which parents are not responsible for a child's behavior.

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legally or morally?

[Powa]

tony blairs son was found face in the gutter drunk out of his face underage  then when the police found him there and took him to the police station he lied about his identity repeatedly.

yea nice one mr blair should we look to you for a good example?

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He said it as not to embarass his dad. Plus, who would believe you if you said to a Police Officer drunk "Yeah, I live at 10 Downing Street". They would just throw you into the cells for a night.

I do blame the parents. I was raised by my parents with the attitude of if you step out of line I will knock you back into it. If the parents teach their kids about disicpline and actually punished them, then I think it would sort them out. I have seen too many examples of kids acting antisocial and their parents just ignoring it and letting them cary on because "my kid would never do something like that". They need to wake up, and these proposed courses would do just that.

[dreamz Veteran]

Chances are, though, that if a child is caught stealing or assulting another child then the parent could use a refresher course.

i would tend to agree, but there are plenty of cases where the child breaks the law (perhaps, a misdemeanor) that have nothing to do with parental guidance.

legally or morally?

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both. parents don't always get in trouble for their children's behavior.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

both.  parents don't always get in trouble for their children's behavior.

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That would be only because the other party is letting them off the hook.