Quick Question About Religion And History

[Raum]

The thought just crossed my mind tonight.....I'm not sure how far written records go back, but I was just curious. Are there any detailed written records from around the timeplace stories in The Bible, the life of Jesus etc took place? If so, is there any mentioning of these events?

[rumbleph1$h]

The thought just crossed my mind tonight.....I'm not sure how far written records go back, but I was just curious.  Are there any detailed written records from around the timeplace stories in The Bible, the life of Jesus etc took place?  If so, is there any mentioning of these events?

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Well the New Testament didn't just come together out of thin air. Manuscripts from that time period like the Dead Sea Scrolls have been discovered within the last century.

[Dick Montage]

The New Testament was written a long time after events supposedly took place.

And then edited every few decades to fit the Church's current thinking.

By "edited" I mean "re-written".

[Dick Montage]

Viserov: As it is with all history, nothing is ever unbiased. Religion is very much a chinese whispers model - but the new testament (and elements of the old) are so distorted from anything originally meant, because they were written so long after the death of the Jesus figure.

My personal take is that Jesus did exist, and was a good man, an enlightened man, but a man none-the-less. All the special effects were added in post production to emphasise the story. I think a lot of what we take to be his life is fairly true, but dramatic storytelling was used to emphasize the metaphors. Unfortunately, they add a lot of doubt to the story.

However, the changes that the "church" have made just digust me, and they have warped the ideals to suit their means.

Edited September 28, 2005 by Boffa Jones

[Viserov]

Viserov: As it is with all history, nothing is ever unbiased.  Religion is very much a chinese whispers model - but the new testament (and elements of the old) are so distorted from anything originally meant, because they were written so long after the death of the Jesus figure.

My personal take is that Jesus did exist, and was a good man, an enlightened man, but a man none-the-less.  All the special effects were added in post production to emphasise the story.  I think a lot of what we take to be his life is fairly true, but dramatic storytelling was used to emphasize the metaphors.  Unfortunately, they add a lot of doubt to the story.

However, the changes that the "church" have made just digust me, and they have warped the ideals to suit their means.

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I agree. I do think that Jesus existed; however, I think he was an ordinary human being, like everyone else, not possessing any special power or divinely connection. As you said, he may have been a great and honorable man, but he was just a man, nothing more. Maybe there weren't many men like this in Jesus' time, so the Church decided to exaggerate who he was.

Even if I'm wrong about Jesus (I'm agnostic) and he really was this divine "superhero," how is he even someone that a normal human being could relate to? He's portrayed as this perfect human. I can never relate to someone who's infinitely better than me.

[Dick Montage]

Viserov: Which is where the Church went wrong. Thy used the Jesus story as an aid to gain power and work their way into powerful ally's good books. However, in doing so they alienated Jesus to their future audiences, and in turn alienated themslves.

So what do they do? The introduce guilt into their teachings. Kind of force their flock into believeing their version of history, and any questioning of it is "a bad thing".

Again, as I say - th church hold no value to me. Killing, persecution, torture and so on have all been done in the name of the Catholic Church. To me they are not representative of God or Jesus, and the Chruch is a massively corrupt organisation - covering up acts of child molestation, ignoring the Nazi holocaust, etc.

I talk to "God". He doesn't talk back, but he listens. I do not believe that everything happebns because of "God" but that he oversees things and gives me guidance when needed. How does me going to a big imposing building, kneeling down with strangers and uttering bad English help me here?

[Raum]

While it was interesting reading replies, the original question has not come any closer to being answered. Maybe I worded it badly.

I want to know if there any written records of the life of Jesus or other biblical tales BESIDES The Bible.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

[Thread Moved from GD to RWI]

[Ironman273]

I know there are a couple of historians that wrote of Jesus' life and impact. There was a 1st century Roman historian named Tacitus that mentions Jesus. I believe there was also a Jewish historian around the same time named Flavius Joseph (?) that also wrote on Jesus.

There are other accounts that Jesus lived and walked this earth. Very few historians would argue that point. The argument comes when you classify Jesus. Was he the Son of God? A prophet? Crazy?

[nexx]

iirc there are historial accounts of a Jesus Christ, he is also recognised (on different levels) in other religions.

There is also scientific evidence (as well as historial and religious accounts) to suggest at least some of the events/locations in the Bible were real (Garden of Eden, a great flood).

Whether or not Jesus was 'a normal person', or the flood was just well...another flood, or the accounts were modified and dramatised over time...we may never know.

[Hitman2000]

That is why im not religious, the bible has been changed so many times.

The muslim say that the koran has never been altered in anyway, maybe thats why muslims are so serious about religion.

[Boffa Jones Veteran]

Thread Cleaned

Its always funny when a thread starts out in GD and comes to RWI the replies are so different.

[Axon]

The Nag Hamadi Libraries are a good place to look for texts written during the time of christ.

The origional documents still exist in their pure form of Hamadi, unfortunitly only three or four people today actually know Hamadi, so the translations of these texts are slow.

They were discovered about 30 years ago, and only recently did the translation and documenting of them begin.

-Ax

[Hum]

While it was interesting reading replies, the original question has not come any closer to being answered.  Maybe I worded it badly.

I want to know if there any written records of the life of Jesus or other biblical tales BESIDES The Bible.

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There are Chinese & Sumerian tales of a great flood, seeming to parallel the Noah's Ark story.

There are some ancient tax records seemingly mentioning figures from Jesus' time.

Things like birth records were not recorded in ancient times, because they were not considered important.

There are the apocrypha books, which were left out of the Main Bible, by the early Church.

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_141.html

http://www.carm.org/questions/Josephus.htm

The Dead Sea scrolls exists, however, many of those were altered by the scribes to keep some information secret from the Rulers of the times.

There are some modern psychic writings related to Jesus & Biblical times, if you are interested. [PM Hum]

Keep in mind there is no hard evidence of the accuracy of any events or people of those Biblical times, so you must decide for yourself and take the writings on faith. ;)

[mntbikeracer1]

You must have faith. If you look at the bible and religious texts in a purely historical text you are missing something.

[Diffused Mind]

You must have faith.

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Why?

[John S. Veteran]

Why?

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You exercise faith everyday for mundane things, you think it silly to exercise it regarding your existence in eternity?

Back to the topic: Check out the writings of Josephus: http://members.aol.com/FLJOSEPHUS/home.htm

[dreamz Veteran]

You exercise faith everyday for mundane things, you think it silly to exercise it regarding your existence in eternity?

Back to the topic:  Check out the writings of Josephus: http://members.aol.com/FLJOSEPHUS/home.htm

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1. this may be a conflation of the word "faith."

2. one can have faith in non-supernatural entities, e.g. faith in human solidarity. that's my position, anyway.

if you want an interesting socio-historical account of religion and science, check out bertrand russell's book, "why i am not a christian." russell, an eminent logician, mathematician, and philosopher of the 20th century documented the effects of religion on epistemology, etc.